Masks in emergency situations

[Bantamzen]

With all due respect it reveals nothing of the sort, there is just evidence of a couple of poorly thought out and/or misunderstood instructions somewhere. the rest of the thread points to the sane majority view.

In any event this thread is another opportunity for folk to shriek about masks.

No its a serious issue.

 

[island]

If your building takes 15 mins to evacuate in an emergency, you need a different building.

There exist plenty of buildings which take longer than that to evacuate and work perfectly well. Hospitals and tall office blocks being but two examples.

They have compensating protections in place such as fire doors – these are certified to take 30 minutes (or longer) to burn through.

On the original point – anyone expecting people to faff with a face covering whilst on their way out of a building in response to a fire alarm, or expecting people to carry a spare face covering on their person for this purpose, should not be taken seriously.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Especially, like in these 21st century times, they don't have one...

If someone does not have a handbag, they will have pockets.

Literally nobody walks about with nowhere to put their keys, wallet/purse or phone. The days when wives wouldn't carry anything as their husband had it are well gone.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2020 ==

Where I work we are not allowed those ones unfortunately even in emergency it has to be the disposable ones

I said disposable.

 

[MattA7]

I assume it’s because of such potential situations that there is a specific exemption in the law for such situations at least in Scotland anyway

“ anyone who is seeking medical assistance, or acting to avoid injury, illness or harm, and where wearing a face covering would make this more difficult. This also applies if someone needs emergency assistance and they don’t have a face covering with them or there is not time to put one on.”

 

[kez19]

If someone does not have a handbag, they will have pockets.

Literally nobody walks about with nowhere to put their keys, wallet/purse or phone. The days when wives wouldn't carry anything as their husband had it are well gone.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Oct 2020 ==



I said disposable.

I know you said disposable but even in my line of work it was asked but told no

 

[Scotrail12]

If a fire alarm goes off, COVID can get stuffed as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Ted633]

Another scenario to consider is depressurisation at high altitude on an aircraft.

You don't have long before hypoxia begins to set in, hence being told to put your own oxygen mask on before helping others. So surely having to remove a mask before putting an oxygen mask on is a potentially dangerous delay in that scenario.

Granted, I doubt it happens that often.

What sort of a mask are you wearing?! You just pull it off your face in less than a second!


Off topic, but reminds me of this;

"Please put on your own oxygen mask before helping your child. If you have 2 children, pick your favourite"

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know you said disposable but even in my line of work it was asked but told no

Sorry, I'm confused, told no to what?

 

[kez19]

Sorry, I'm confused, told no to what?

Regarding masks, colleagues had asked if they were able to use masks you find in a local retailer to work/wear and told no to it that was all.

 

[yorkie]

Why is it that some places seem to be being stupid with their mask requirements in emergency situations - such as my flats saying if you're self isolating and the fire alarm goes off you must wear a mask when leaving the building, and another poster in another thread said about the same thing happening in a Scottish school?

I'd report this to the relevant authorities.

If the fire alarm goes off, you don't delay your exit.

It's not "stupid".

If you consider that masks work, which is the only sensible consideration in this context because the Government says they do, then evacuations tend to result in indoor crowds, which means spread.

If this applies to you you should keep one in your pocket at all times.

It only doesn't make sense if you consider that they don't work, but this debate can't be addressed in that context because all businesses have to do their risk assessment on the basis that they do work because the Government said so - in that context that's the end of the discussion.

Saying it is not "stupid" is madness; your post actually makes me feel rather angry. It is worse than "stupid"; it's downright dangerous.

Sorry but as a fire warden myself I find what you say to be irresponsible; if the fire alarm goes, you leave as promptly as possible and that is the end of the discussion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Saying it is not "stupid" is madness; your post actually makes me feel rather angry. It is worse than "stupid"; it's downright dangerous.

It's not. You can put a mask on from your pocket while walking towards the exit.

Sorry but as a fire warden myself I find what you say to be irresponsible; if the fire alarm goes, you leave as promptly as possible and that is the end of the discussion.

These are exceptional times (something you and others on here seem unable to accept, but that will not remove that fact). As most fire alarms are hoaxes or minor incidents, the risk posed by cramming people into emergency exit stairwells etc is actually higher.

 

[Bikeman78]

If your building takes 15 mins to evacuate in an emergency, you need a different building.

To be fair, there must be many buildings in New York that would take way longer than 15 minutes to evacuate.

 

[Bantamzen]

It's not. You can put a mask on from your pocket while walking towards the exit.



These are exceptional times (something you and others on here seem unable to accept, but that will not remove that fact). As most fire alarms are hoaxes or minor incidents, the risk posed by cramming people into emergency exit stairwells etc is actually higher.

Strangely enough, fires tend to be exceptional times too. And the thing about them is they spread way quicker, and can be far more lethal than a virus that you may or may not get in the minutes it takes to escape a building that is on fire.

Seriously, I do wonder about your thinking sometimes. Maybe one day I will tell you about my experience with fire back in 1985...

 

[MattA7]

A lot also seem to be forgetting it’s not just the fire itself that poses a hazard in burning buildings. The smoke and toxic gases such as carbon monoxide or hydrogen cyanide will often kill before the fire it’s does. The is also a hazard of the building exploding or collapsing in a fire.

my point being if a building is on fire you don’t want to be fiddling around with masks when seconds count.

 

[adc82140]

I've seen those computer models that predict human behaviour when evacuating buildings. I'd love it if someone modelled what would happen if each person spent a few seconds fiddling with their mask, then either waited for their glasses to finish steaming up, or because they couldn't see went head first down the fire escape....

 

[takno]

To be fair, there must be many buildings in New York that would take way longer than 15 minutes to evacuate.

They generally don't evacuate such buildings. It's the same principle that failed so tragically in the Grenfell Fire - you stay within your own fireproof unit and the fire brigade let you know when you can come out.

 

[OneOffDave]

Unless you are actually surrounded by smoke of flames, it's highly unlikely that a few seconds will be the difference between safety and harm unless you are working in an environment with hazardous materials. Unless it puts me in harms way I will usually evacuate with keys and, in winter, a coat. Sitting in a muster area for 45-60 minutes (how long we were held outside in my last non-drill evacuation at work) in the rain in 4 degree weather in shirt sleeves presents a much greater risk than a risk assessed delay measured in seconds in evacuation.

In some places I've worked in, full safe evacuation of everyone on site would take at least a day if not longer depending on how fast extra resources could be delivered to the location. This is where compartmentalisation would be vital. The main building was over 1/3 mile long

 

[yorkie]

It's not. You can put a mask on from your pocket while walking towards the exit.

No-one is saying people can't do that.

But equally I'm telling you it cannot be mandated and people cannot be instructed to go looking for masks or go back to get masks. You head to the nearest exit as promptly as possible; if you have time to put a mask and a coat on, without delaying your exit, then fair enough, but do not delay your exit.

These are exceptional times (something you and others on here seem unable to accept, but that will not remove that fact). As most fire alarms are hoaxes or minor incidents, the risk posed by cramming people into emergency exit stairwells etc is actually higher.

What you say does not change the facts either.

An emergency situation trumps any Covid regulations.

Edit: By the way, are you, or have you been, a fire warden/marshal? I seriously doubt anyone who has had the appropriate training would say what you have said

 

[Andy Pacer]

No-one is saying people can't do that.

But equally I'm telling you it cannot be mandated and people cannot be instructed to go looking for masks or go back to get masks. You head to the nearest exit as promptly as possible; if you have time to put a mask and a coat on, without delaying your exit, then fair enough, but do not delay your exit.


What you say does not change the facts either.

An emergency situation trumps any Covid regulations.

And also as mentioned previously, is it reasonable to expect everyone to have a sealed mask in their pocket at all times when in these environments?

 

[Huntergreed]

Honestly some of the posts on this thread defy belief.

An emergency evacuation due to a fire alarm means that there is an imminent, immediate risk to life that has been detected within the building, and it is urgent that all personell leave the building immediately without stopping for any reason.

A fire can have a 100% death rate, Covid has a death rate of around 0.5%, making the fire FAR more dangerous. As a result, masks should not, and cannot, be mandated in the event of an emergency evacuation.

 

[yorkie]

I'd like to know if there is anyone who thinks mask should be mandated in an evacuation who has had fire warden/marshal training?

So far I am assuming that the people who advocate the mandating of masks have not had experience as a fire warden/marshal and have not had the appropriate training; in which case I take their opinions on this matter with a pinch of salt.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Honestly some of the posts on this thread defy belief.

An emergency evacuation due to a fire alarm means that there is an imminent, immediate risk to life that has been detected within the building, and it is urgent that all personell leave the building immediately without stopping for any reason.

A fire can have a 100% death rate, Covid has a death rate of around 0.5%, making the fire FAR more dangerous. As a result, masks should not, and cannot, be mandated in the event of an emergency evacuation.

This goes back to my post yesterday where immediate protection of life (ie not being overcome by smoke/fire) should surely be the priority

 

[headshot119]

It's not. You can put a mask on from your pocket while walking towards the exit.



These are exceptional times (something you and others on here seem unable to accept, but that will not remove that fact). As most fire alarms are hoaxes or minor incidents, the risk posed by cramming people into emergency exit stairwells etc is actually higher.

As someone who has been in a burning building, seen the smoke creeping under a door, smelt the burning, seen the flames, I say with 100% conviction, if you are in a building and a fire alarm sounds, exit as quickly as possible. Don't stop to worry about putting a mask over your face, find the nearest exit, and get out.

Once you are safely away from the building, by all means put a mask on, social distance at the muster point, all that lot. But get out!

 

[jumble]

I'd like to know if there is anyone who thinks mask should be mandated in an evacuation who has had fire warden/marshal training?

So far I am assuming that the people who advocate the mandating of masks have not had experience as a fire warden/marshal and have not had the appropriate training; in which case I take their opinions on this matter with a pinch of salt.

In this debate there is no consideration whatever of people with Aspergers who on being told that masks are mandatory might well spend too long looking for one and become injured or worse because they have been told it is unacceptable to escape without one.
or
Just imagine too that you are blocked from escaping because some fool is faffing about trying to find their mask.

This two scenarios make the mandating of masks in the event of a fire unbelievably stupid

 

[island]

I'd like to know if there is anyone who thinks mask should be mandated in an evacuation who has had fire warden/marshal training?

So far I am assuming that the people who advocate the mandating of masks have not had experience as a fire warden/marshal and have not had the appropriate training; in which case I take their opinions on this matter with a pinch of salt.

I have had fire warden training, and...

anyone expecting people to faff with a face covering whilst on their way out of a building in response to a fire alarm, or expecting people to carry a spare face covering on their person for this purpose, should not be taken seriously.

 

[bramling]

It's not. You can put a mask on from your pocket while walking towards the exit.



These are exceptional times (something you and others on here seem unable to accept, but that will not remove that fact). As most fire alarms are hoaxes or minor incidents, the risk posed by cramming people into emergency exit stairwells etc is actually higher.

Firstly, people shouldn’t be putting a mask on without cleaning their hands first.

Secondly, should the mask be just flicked out of one’s pocket just like that? Doesn’t sound a very sterile place for the mask to be being stored.

Thirdly, you now have people fiddling around with masks in an emergency situation, which in some cases will be whilst they will be using a stairwell. Only takes one person to trip, which masks increase the risk of happening.

It’s a good example of how some people’s attitude to risk has become well and truly blinkered by all this.

And all this for a measure which doesn’t seem to be doing much good anyway. Even the Facebook types are starting to get sceptical now. I even read today someone make the point that if masks are so vital how come MPs aren’t wearing them, and if they don’t feel there’s a benefit for them then why are they enforcing it on the rest of the population. Good question...

 

[kez19]

Firstly, people shouldn’t be putting a mask on without cleaning their hands first.

Secondly, should the mask be just flicked out of one’s pocket just like that? Doesn’t sound a very sterile place for the mask to be being stored.

Thirdly, you now have people fiddling around with masks in an emergency situation, which in some cases will be whilst they will be using a stairwell. Only takes one person to trip, which masks increase the risk of happening.

It’s a good example of how some people’s attitude to risk has become well and truly blinkered by all this.

And all this for a measure which doesn’t seem to be doing much good anyway. Even the Facebook types are starting to get sceptical now. I even read today someone make the point that if masks are so vital how come MPs aren’t wearing them, and if they don’t feel there’s a benefit for them then why are they enforcing it on the rest of the population?Good question...

Odd you mentioned in that last paragraph I questioned the exact same thing few days ago unsure which thread possibly here, in regards of MPs wearing them.

I think people are realising more about it and questioning things (no need in anything being conspiracy theory based), that’s the way I have read things, back in March yes I agree I was believing things were right but as this goes further on and these rule changes its becoming laughable as well as idiotic but hey that’s your politicians these days. As I too have said numerous times it’s one rule for us and another for them.

Politicians break rules equals a slapped wrist, general public same thing get a fine.

 

[Bantamzen]

Firstly, people shouldn’t be putting a mask on without cleaning their hands first.

Secondly, should the mask be just flicked out of one’s pocket just like that? Doesn’t sound a very sterile place for the mask to be being stored.

Thirdly, you now have people fiddling around with masks in an emergency situation, which in some cases will be whilst they will be using a stairwell. Only takes one person to trip, which masks increase the risk of happening.

It’s a good example of how some people’s attitude to risk has become well and truly blinkered by all this.

And all this for a measure which doesn’t seem to be doing much good anyway. Even the Facebook types are starting to get sceptical now. I even read today someone make the point that if masks are so vital how come MPs aren’t wearing them, and if they don’t feel there’s a benefit for them then why are they enforcing it on the rest of the population. Good question...

I'm finding it astonishing that some people actually think its more important to worry about putting a mask on than to actually get out of a situation that could lead to your immediate, and horrible death. As you rightly say some folk have become so covid-blinkered that rational thinking goes out of the window....

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm finding it astonishing that some people actually think its more important to worry about putting a mask on than to actually get out of a situation that could lead to your immediate, and horrible death. As you rightly say some folk have become so covid-blinkered that rational thinking goes out of the window....

Most fire evacuations are hoaxes or very minor incidents. Therefore in most cases COVID does indeed pose a greater risk.

 

[Bantamzen]

Most fire evacuations are hoaxes or very minor incidents. Therefore in most cases COVID does indeed pose a greater risk.

What an absolutely ridiculous statement. How do you know at the time of an alarm going off that it is a hoax or "minor incident"? How do you know that you are not moments away from burning or choking to death? You really haven't thought this one through have you? I honestly hope you are never responsible for the wellbeing of others in an emergency situation.