Masks in emergency situations

[Bletchleyite]

What an absolutely ridiculous statement. How do you know at the time of an alarm going off that it is a hoax or "minor incident"? How do you know that you are not moments away from burning or choking to death? You really haven't thought this one through have you? I honestly hope you are never responsible for the wellbeing of others in an emergency situation.

And I hope you aren't, if you aren't willing to even entertain the idea that cramming people into stairwells will cause COVID spread.

Mandatory new packaged mask in your pocket at all times = sorted. Simple.

 

[Bantamzen]

And I hope you aren't, if you aren't willing to even entertain the idea that cramming people into stairwells will cause COVID spread.

Mandatory new packaged mask in your pocket at all times = sorted. Simple.

Well bad news, I am a trained fire warden. And I can tell you now someone pratting around in their pockets, or handbags trying to dig out a mask will be told firmly to get straight along to the nearest emergency exit. And I would do so because I have seen with my own eye how incredibly quickly fire can spread, and what it can do to people who cannot get away quick enough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well bad news, I am a trained fire warden. And I can tell you now someone pratting around in their pockets, or handbags trying to dig out a mask will be told firmly to get straight along to the nearest emergency exit. And I would do so because I have seen with my own eye how incredibly quickly fire can spread, and what it can do to people who cannot get away quick enough.

Were you specifically trained in being a fire warden in a pandemic? If not, your building risk assessment is (possibly fatally) flawed.

 

[Scotrail12]

Those telling us to take masks out of our pockets in a fire alarm must be the same people who would take their bags off a plane in an emergency evacuation.

 

[Bantamzen]

Were you specifically trained in being a fire warden in a pandemic? If not, your building risk assessment is (possibly fatally) flawed.

What the hell has a pandemic got to with it? Fire and smoke moves as quickly regardless of a virus being present. And it is your assessment that is seriously flawed, people moving out of a building may have a slightly higher risk of catching a virus that might make them a bit ill, or if they are in a vulnerable group have a chance of being killed by it. A few seconds delay pratting about with a bit of face cloth can result in an instant & terrible death, not only for the person but potentially lots of people around them.

 

[cactustwirly]

And I hope you aren't, if you aren't willing to even entertain the idea that cramming people into stairwells will cause COVID spread.

Mandatory new packaged mask in your pocket at all times = sorted. Simple.

Catching Covid is the least of my concerns when evacuating a burning building.
Any delay could be lethal, in fact it's the smoke that cause by far the most fire deaths, not the flames or the heat.
You want to limit your exposure as much as possible, hence you don't want to be wasting time fiddling with masks etc.

I don't get your logic, you'd rather breathe in hot Hydrogen Cyanide and Hydrochloric Acid gases, rather than catch Covid, really??

 

[Huntergreed]

@Bletchleyite

If someone doesn’t have a mask to hand, do you believe they should:

(1) just not bother with a mask and leave the building immediately

(2) not leave until they have found a mask, or if they do leave without one be fined for doing so

Or

(3) not leave until they have found a mask and simply remain indoors if they cannot find one?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

And I hope you aren't, if you aren't willing to even entertain the idea that cramming people into stairwells will cause COVID spread.

Isn't that making an assumption that someone in the building is infectious and that you are in contact with them more than fleetingly? Are there any practical examples over the last six months of emergency evacuations causing spread?

 

[kez19]

And I hope you aren't, if you aren't willing to even entertain the idea that cramming people into stairwells will cause COVID spread.

Mandatory new packaged mask in your pocket at all times = sorted. Simple.

I like the fact you keep say having a packaged mask and you are sorted? You do realise people carry other items in their pockets like I don't know hand sanitiser (another that we get told to keep hold of!). Why does this "packaged" mask need to be mandatory? Isn't there enough rules already? I quite find this basically terrifying.

Next you will tell us in a fire before exiting a building, as well as grabbing a mask from our pockets we have to wash our hands before leaving the building!

For the work I am in its more of priority in helping people out of a building than masking up! (personal opinion)

 

[Mojo]

Not quite sure this is bad as one of the colleges at the University of York, who have told any self isolating residents upon hearing the fire alarm to firstly wait one minute to allow non-isolationists to leave, then to go to the refuge area (these are normally in modern buildings and a place for disabled people to wait when they cannot use stairs), use the refuge area intercom/help point to contact security, where they will most likely be instructed by security to “remain in the refuge area.”

 

[Huntergreed]

Not quite sure this is bad as one of the colleges at the University of York, who have told any self isolating residents upon hearing the fire alarm to firstly wait one minute to allow non-isolationists to leave, then to go to the refuge area (these are normally in modern buildings and a place for disabled people to wait when they cannot use stairs), use the refuge area intercom/help point to contact security, where they will most likely be instructed by security to “remain in the refuge area.”

That's dreadful and frankly it's putting lives in immediate danger, I would not be following any such instruction and I would be surprised if that is at all legal.

 

[Mag_seven]

Not quite sure this is bad as one of the colleges at the University of York, who have told any self isolating residents upon hearing the fire alarm to firstly wait one minute to allow non-isolationists to leave, then to go to the refuge area (these are normally in modern buildings and a place for disabled people to wait when they cannot use stairs), use the refuge area intercom/help point to contact security, where they will most likely be instructed by security to “remain in the refuge area.”

And what if the refuge is actually needed by a disabled person - as @Huntergreed has stated, this instruction sounds dubious particularly in relation to legislation surrounding disabled people.

 

[DustyBin]

Not quite sure this is bad as one of the colleges at the University of York, who have told any self isolating residents upon hearing the fire alarm to firstly wait one minute to allow non-isolationists to leave, then to go to the refuge area (these are normally in modern buildings and a place for disabled people to wait when they cannot use stairs), use the refuge area intercom/help point to contact security, where they will most likely be instructed by security to “remain in the refuge area.”

That’s appalling. I don’t deal with fire engineering in a professional capacity but it is something I studied as part of my degree and I have overseen upgrade works to older residential buildings, so I’m not a layperson. Telling people to needlessly stay put is very likely to be seen as gross negligence in the event of an actual fire, and ‘because covid’ surely wouldn’t be a defence (then again who knows, the world has gone mad!).

@Bantamzen given your location and the date you mentioned, I think I know what event you were involved in. I’ve seen the footage, absolutely terrible and not something I’ll ever forget. It succeeded in driving home the message though. Fair play to you for taking on the responsibility of being a fire warden and doing your bit to help prevent something like that happening again.

 

[Domh245]

I would love to know what the HSE think of those instructions...

 

[Bantamzen]

@Bantamzen given your location and the date you mentioned, I think I know what event you were involved in. I’ve seen the footage, absolutely terrible and not something I’ll ever forget. It succeeded in driving home the message though. Fair play to you for taking on the responsibility of being a fire warden and doing your bit to help prevent something like that happening again.

It was one of the reasons I volunteered when given the chance. Its not easy to think about to this day, so having proper training, understanding why the procedures matter and being able to calmly assist people away from potential danger helps a lot. And if there is one thing I took from that day it was that no matter how trivial any few second delay might seem at first, it can prove to be the difference between life and death. That is almost certainly not going to be the case with the virus and people moving swiftly to emergency exits.

 

[jumble]

Not quite sure this is bad as one of the colleges at the University of York, who have told any self isolating residents upon hearing the fire alarm to firstly wait one minute to allow non-isolationists to leave, then to go to the refuge area (these are normally in modern buildings and a place for disabled people to wait when they cannot use stairs), use the refuge area intercom/help point to contact security, where they will most likely be instructed by security to “remain in the refuge area.”

The London Fire Brigade do not appear to consider people isolating or if people wear masks as being of any relevance in an evacuation plan
I would prefer to take their professional advice than that of lay people making such plans up as they go.
One extra minute is enough to differentiate between life or death from smoke inhalation

 

[Skimpot flyer]

People are debating whether to hunt for a face covering before exiting a burning building... while the Grenfell Tower fire enquiry is ongoing...
It should be more obvious than ever. No delay. No equivocation. Exit.

The footage of the fire at Bradford was used in a hard-hitting fire procedures evacuation video during my induction at my present employer. Nobody should ever delay their exit from a building when the alarm sounds. Ever.

 

[headshot119]

People are debating whether to hunt for a face covering before exiting a burning building... while the Grenfell Tower fire enquiry is ongoing...
It should be more obvious than ever. No delay. No equivocation. Exit.

The footage of the fire at Bradford was used in a hard-hitting fire procedures evacuation video during my induction at my present employer. Nobody should ever delay their exit from a building when the alarm sounds. Ever.

I made this point earlier on in the thread, I was absolutely blown away that anyone would suggest delaying evacuation.

 

[theironroad]

Not quite sure this is bad as one of the colleges at the University of York, who have told any self isolating residents upon hearing the fire alarm to firstly wait one minute to allow non-isolationists to leave, then to go to the refuge area (these are normally in modern buildings and a place for disabled people to wait when they cannot use stairs), use the refuge area intercom/help point to contact security, where they will most likely be instructed by security to “remain in the refuge area.”

That's one instruction I'd quite easily with good conscious ignore.

'remain in refuge' area until forgotten, overlooked and left to perish when I'd be able to escape myself...


Do people actually think when they type these notices? I can understand if someone needs a refuge place if physically unable to escape without assistance or if someone with for example dementia etc is going to need help.

I'd imagine in busy buildings, fellow escapees would do their utmost to help anyone else out at same time.

 

[initiation]

It seems the University of York have had somewhat of a climbdown. It is insane to think that people would generally consider recommending delaying evacuation.

 

[A Challenge]

Why is it that some places seem to be being stupid with their mask requirements in emergency situations - such as my flats saying if you're self isolating and the fire alarm goes off you must wear a mask when leaving the building, and another poster in another thread said about the same thing happening in a Scottish school?

Another Email - this time saying you should wear one whatever when evacuating, not just if self-isolating like the previous one - and also claiming close contact is less in an evacuation situation if you wear a face covering - I think you'll find that they've assessed that the risk is lower of close contact, not that close contact is reduced (though I suppose it might be if it takes some people longer to find their mask).