History of Green Line services?

[Journeyman]

Good solid heavy duty machines. Much like the double deck RT equivalent.

Technically they were very similar - the only major differences were the position of the engine and the bodywork.

 

[MotCO]

Good solid heavy duty machines. Much like the double deck RT equivalent.

Indeed, the RFs were often used as reliefs when more modern coaches were not available.

 

[Busaholic]

Good solid heavy duty machines. Much like the double deck RT equivalent.

Solid but nippy too. There were routes (227 and 236 primarily, but the short 208 too) where younger drivers threw them around and, almost, raced each other. I was young then and admit to having found it exciting: when the first rural omo routes went to RF with, mostly, pre-retirement drivers, then you saw the solid dependability without a hint of reckless. It was noticeable, as a Bromley resident, that the nightly staff bus was always an RF, and not just because of Shortlands bridge!

 

[MotCO]

Solid but nippy too. There were routes (227 and 236 primarily, but the short 208 too) where younger drivers threw them around and, almost, raced each other. I was young then and admit to having found it exciting: when the first rural omo routes went to RF with, mostly, pre-retirement drivers, then you saw the solid dependency without a hint of reckless. It was noticeable, as a Bromley resident, that the nightly staff bus was always an RF, and not just because of Shortlands bridge!

And it is probably significant that something like 10% of all RFs made are still around, mostly preserved.

 

[upasalmon]

I wonder whether some of the pre 1970 Green Line coaches were actually Coaches? The RMC and RCL Route masters may have had coach seating, but RTs appeared on Green Line duties and from one picture I saw had bus seats. There were the RC class AEC Reliance which more like dual purpose. RF class AEC Regal IVs may have been DP ran until the late 1970s. What I would call REAL coaches came to Green Line in the late 70s with some of the final AEC Reliance built. By this time NBC standard Leyland Nationals with DP seating/livery were operating GL work . Am I correct?

 

[GusB]

I wonder whether some of the pre 1970 Green Line coaches were actually Coaches? The RMC and RCL Route masters may have had coach seating, but RTs appeared on Green Line duties and from one picture I saw had bus seats. There were the RC class AEC Reliance which more like dual purpose. RF class AEC Regal IVs may have been DP ran until the late 1970s. What I would call REAL coaches came to Green Line in the late 70s with some of the final AEC Reliance built. By this time NBC standard Leyland Nationals with DP seating/livery were operating GL work . Am I correct?

You have to remember that many services were operated by "dual-purpose" vehicles. This often entailed having a vehicle with a standard bus shell, but fitted out with "coach" seating. Either that, or it was a vehicle with what we would regard as a "coach" shell, but with seating that wasn't quite up to "coach" standard. In these days of low-floor vehicles there is a fairly clear distinction between what constitutes a "bus" versus a "coach", but back then there wasn't such a clear line between the two.

 

[Busaholic]

I wonder whether some of the pre 1970 Green Line coaches were actually Coaches? The RMC and RCL Route masters may have had coach seating, but RTs appeared on Green Line duties and from one picture I saw had bus seats. There were the RC class AEC Reliance which more like dual purpose. RF class AEC Regal IVs may have been DP ran until the late 1970s. What I would call REAL coaches came to Green Line in the late 70s with some of the final AEC Reliance built. By this time NBC standard Leyland Nationals with DP seating/livery were operating GL work . Am I correct?

Keeping it nice and simple, the RMC had modified suspension compared to an ordinary Routemaster bus in order to produce a smoother ride for longer distance running: the longer RCL had the same features but, more importantly, a significantly more powerful engine and represented, to me as an observer but never a regular user of Green Line, the ultimate development of the Green Line brand.

 

[Robertj21a]

Keeping it nice and simple, the RMC had modified suspension compared to an ordinary Routemaster bus in order to produce a smoother ride for longer distance running: the longer RCL had the same features but, more importantly, a significantly more powerful engine and represented, to me as an observer but never a regular user of Green Line, the ultimate development of the Green Line brand.

I'm of the opinion that the longer RCL was probably the ultimate in what any UK 'traditional' bus should be.

 

[RT4038]

I wonder whether some of the pre 1970 Green Line coaches were actually Coaches? The RMC and RCL Route masters may have had coach seating, but RTs appeared on Green Line duties and from one picture I saw had bus seats. There were the RC class AEC Reliance which more like dual purpose. RF class AEC Regal IVs may have been DP ran until the late 1970s. What I would call REAL coaches came to Green Line in the late 70s with some of the final AEC Reliance built. By this time NBC standard Leyland Nationals with DP seating/livery were operating GL work . Am I correct?

The RTs used on the East London Green Line services (721-3) and those used on 'Relief' or Peak Hour only work elsewhere were standard buses painted in Green Line livery. They replaced some much more utilitarian vehicles! The RFs on Green Line work had deeper seat cushions and luggage racks. The RMC/RCL vehicles had deeper seats, luggage racks and fluorescent lighting.
Green Line was really a limited stop bus service, and it was only in the 80s when motorway/fast road running became more prevalent that proper coaches were really justified.

 

[MotCO]

Green Line was really a limited stop bus service, and it was only in the 80s when motorway/fast road running became more prevalent that proper coaches were really justified.

I agree up to a point. The RC class introduced in 1965 were the first buses/coaches with coach seating (i.e. higher backed seats). The RP class and SMA class introduced in 1970 or thereabouts continued with higher backed seats, and even the LNC and SNC Leyland Nationals had higher backed seats albeit in a more utilitarian body - e.g. if I recall correctly, the luggage racks were string-bag affairs, rather than proper overhead shelves.

The first proper coaches were the AEC Reliance RS and RB class from Plaxton and Duple respectively. (The S stood for Scarborough and B stood for Blackpool, where the coaches were built.) Some of the routes did use motorways - for example the 707 and 717 from memory used the M1, but others were used on routes with no motorways - e.g. 725. The new coaches were used to 'upgrade' the service to attract new customers by standing out from the previous dual-purpose vehicles.

 

[A0]

I agree up to a point. The RC class introduced in 1965 were the first buses/coaches with coach seating (i.e. higher backed seats). The RP class and SMA class introduced in 1970 or thereabouts continued with higher backed seats, and even the LNC and SNC Leyland Nationals had higher backed seats albeit in a more utilitarian body - e.g. if I recall correctly, the luggage racks were string-bag affairs, rather than proper overhead shelves.

Not quite on the Nationals. The LNCs had bus seats with vinyl facings. The first of the SNCs had bus seats but fabric rather than vinyl upholstered. The SNCs then came with high-backed seats.

As the SNCs came on stream the LNCs were down-graded to bus work.

Again, yes - on the cross London routes (or the orbital routes) a driver (or crew) duty was usually one return journey, with a meal break at the other end.

Think that there were one or two routes where this didn't quite work and there were one or two duties a day that just did the outer end of a route (and therefore changed coach several times) - Tring to Aylesbury may have been one but I'm not certain of this.

If you look up a blog on line named '40 years on the buses' you'll find the reminiscences of a Tring and Hemel based driver who explained what happened with the 706 (Aylesbury - Chelsham), but in summary Tring based drivers took the whole route to Chelsham and had their meal break there. Tring garage though was a small depot without a canteen, so the Chelsham drivers would drive to Hemel garage where a Tring driver would do the Hemel - Aylesbury section whilst the Chelsham driver took their meal break at Hemel. The Hemel - Aylesbury turn was known as the 'swinger' duty.

 

[Busaholic]

The RTs used on the East London Green Line services (721-3) and those used on 'Relief' or Peak Hour only work elsewhere were standard buses painted in Green Line livery. They replaced some much more utilitarian vehicles! The RFs on Green Line work had deeper seat cushions and luggage racks. The RMC/RCL vehicles had deeper seats, luggage racks and fluorescent lighting.
Green Line was really a limited stop bus service, and it was only in the 80s when motorway/fast road running became more prevalent that proper coaches were really justified.

I partially agree it was a limited stop bus service, both on the East London routes (including the 720/A, but most definitely not the 726!) and the orbital services, maybe two or three others, but with a lot of the others it would probably only apply towards the ed of their routes; the fare structure in any case meant it could be massively more expensive than using local buses (where available) to discourage short distance travellers.

 

[PeterC]

The RTs used on the East London Green Line services (721-3) and those used on 'Relief' or Peak Hour only work elsewhere were standard buses painted in Green Line livery. They replaced some much more utilitarian vehicles! The RFs on Green Line work had deeper seat cushions and luggage racks. The RMC/RCL vehicles had deeper seats, luggage racks and fluorescent lighting.
Green Line was really a limited stop bus service, and it was only in the 80s when motorway/fast road running became more prevalent that proper coaches were really justified.

I was a regular user of the 721 in the 60s and 70s, I don't recall the seating on the RCLs being any different to an RM. There was, I think, slightly more legroom and slightly more space for lugguage. Plus a door on the rear platform of course, otherwise unheard of on LT double deckers.

OPO didn't do the 721 much good, even missing alternate stops they were regularly overtaken between Stratford and Romford by the crew operated RMs on the 86.

 

[MotCO]

I was a regular user of the 721 in the 60s and 70s, I don't recall the seating on the RCLs being any different to an RM.

I rode on an RMC when they were in service with Stagecoach East London on route 15. I seem to recall their seat cushions were more padded than the usual RMs. They were not high-backed - just better padded.