passenger power gets the right result.

[142094]

Thought I read that there was some disruption yesterday on TPE, with services starting and terminating short. Could have been that the set was to be dropped off somewhere and makes it easier to do this when people are not in it and need shifting.

 

[yorkie]

The usual farce at platform 3 today, with passengers confused about which train to get.

Platform 3 for the 2142 TPE to York, front train. OK, there's 2 trains so everyone goes to the front one, fine so far... passengers ask if this is the train to Leeds etc, and are told "yes" but I realise a 185 is on it's way from the airport so I ask the member of staff in the rear cab if this is going to be a 6 car train as the 2142 is from the Airport and is on its way, he says "Yes" so I ask if we can go in either part of the train, he says "yes". When the Airport portion arrives, most passengers go for that. However I decided not to be wedged and go for the rear unit. But as departure time approaches I think I better check as if they are not joining I could be missing the train! So I ask again and am now told that it's the front 3 coaches only. So I get on. The units then combine and the rear unit is now empty.

I've seen similar farces before such as 3 trains in a platform, with 2 of them advertised both as the "front" train, I can work it out because I know that the 185 is going to be TPE and the 156 is going to be Northern, but some passengers get very confused and understandably so.

So I'm now on a 6 car unit with the rear 3 cars locked out of use, this isn't a problem as the train isn't packed (just well loaded, although there isn't enough luggage capacity) but it's annoying when you're not told correct information.

 

[222666]

It could be a crewing thing - you regular see Voyagers running in pairs but with one locked out of use. The reason being you have to have a member of staff in each set, and the driver doesn't count! So, one driver and one TM equals one set LOOU. I've had to run a wedged 4 car with an empty 4 car tacked on the back. Slightly embarassing situation but rather that than a chat with the boss and a reet old rollocking!

Ah I see so if it has a corridor connection it can be classed as one train?

In an ideal world we wouldn't need MUs, it'd all be worked out by generous number of carriages or 'complete train sets' (like HST), filling empty seats would be done by fares, frequency & stops. If 'complete sets' are overcrowded we could up the frequency, a bit like how most bus companies now opt for single deckers, when they used to run less frequent double decks.

Aside from routes that require a pairing to operate a route & split (for exaple: Birmingham - Aberystwyth & Pwllheli) I don't much like MUs particularly when traveling in, to & from major cities - I think peak times (certainly volumes of passengers at peak) are expanding, so why don't we have full sets like in most metros? Surely it's doable, we've seen enough passenger increase with special offer tickets so I do think TOCs can manipulate the loadings of complete sets if they wanted to.

 

[AlexS]

It annoys me a lot when you get 2 170s together on LM, and the guard locks the rearmost set out so they can do revenue protection. Why should I have to stand when I could sit perfectly comfortably just so the guard can satisfy their craving to do a grip? There's no operational reason at all for this, because you can get different guards one day to the next and the train will be worked differently. I know a lot of my local guards as a regular traveller and some are just more desperate with tickets than others so would rather have some standees to save them hopping between units. Very irritating.

 

[tbtc]

Shows how short sighted it was to order new stock (which would end up working in multiple) without a corridor connection...

 

[ukrob]

It annoys me a lot when you get 2 170s together on LM, and the guard locks the rearmost set out so they can do revenue protection. Why should I have to stand when I could sit perfectly comfortably just so the guard can satisfy their craving to do a grip? There's no operational reason at all for this, because you can get different guards one day to the next and the train will be worked differently. I know a lot of my local guards as a regular traveller and some are just more desperate with tickets than others so would rather have some standees to save them hopping between units. Very irritating.

Quite, how dare a guard protect the revenue of the company they work for by doing their job.

 

[AlexS]

Ah yes, clearly the Book states 'it is preferable to have passengers stand for up to 60 minutes rather than have a seat to save the company money on proper ticket machines'. Oh, must have missed that bit. Not at all appropriate when they're provided with a *4* coach train and decide to only use *2* (thereby depriving some farepaying customers of a seat) when another guard on the same train on a different day will quite happily use all *4* - and blow me down with a feather, by simple powers of switching units, can even check tickets in both halves!

Clearly their cheap approach to getting the odd PF by installing filthy recovered PERTIS machines that have done 20 years on Network South East is doing the trick. Oh wait, they don't work either, silly me!

I hope the odd £3 and £4 fares as generally collected from the local stations cover the doubled fuel cost of an extra 2 car unit burning 40 miles worth of fuel with the doors locked. These tend to be early evening/late afternoon services so a fair quantity of the passengers are travelling on return portions anyway.

I'm sure the Cross Country passengers crammed on a 2 carriage Stansted train that departs around the same time will be happy to see London Midland utilitising their units so well

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Be careful saying that - a passenger told me that if you say something is "jobs worthy" in earshot of the small bald guy at Newport, he will threaten to ban you from the station on the basis that he is being "abused"! Someone else told me he has been acting rudely at Gloucester too.

sounds familiar!

 

[yorkie]

This small bald guy sounds familiar!

Yes, he certainly seems to be very well-known!!! (but for the wrong reasons!) You have a PM!

 

[Nick W]

It annoys me a lot when you get 2 170s together on LM, and the guard locks the rearmost set out so they can do revenue protection.

I hope the TOC paid HMRC the difference in price between the red diesel consumed by that unit for that journey and the cost of the equivalent volume of diesel sold for private transport use!

 

[mickey]

When class 185's operate in multiple to Scarborough they are too long for the platforms at Seamer and Malton, the only two intermediate stations. The units do not have Selective Door Opening.
[...]
Now, don't ask me why some sort of system was in place to sort this out, because I don't sign beyond York, however, I am pretty sure I saw an instruction of some sort the other year saying that the back unit must be locked out between York and Scarborough- although I can't remember the reason why.

There's no reason you can't just tell people if they want to get off at a certain station they'll have to be in a certain portion of the train. Plenty of other operators do this, and it's much less annoying than closing off a whole unit. Plus the 185s come with a way of helping the guard do this - the PIS. I've often been on trains out of Liverpool that are formed as two 3-car units to be split at York, and without exception they've always displayed Scarborough in the first half and York only in the second. The same could easily be done at the other end, albeit the other way round.

Voyagers are an interesting case, particularly considering the comments above - I distinctly remember being on some in VT days with two (and even three) TMs as they said there had to be one in each unit. The RSMs didn't seem to count, though perhaps I misunderstood that bit. The most annoying one though was a rammed BHM-RDG late-night double service where they categorically refused to open up the second unit despite being dangerously loaded. Getting off at Oxford and peeking through the windows we saw... two TMs lying sprawled across the seats relaxing. No comment.

 

[jopsuk]

EMT have to tell people to be in the front unit for some stations on 222 services- these are announced several stations in advance, and a final warning made at the last station where people could move.

 

[455driver]

There's no reason you can't just tell people if they want to get off at a certain station they'll have to be in a certain portion of the train. Plenty of other operators do this, and it's much less annoying than closing off a whole unit.

We do it down here and I would say 15% of the time there will be somebody trying to get off the locked part of the train (and we have through gangways :roll as well as auto anouncements in the locked part as well as the PIS displaying it, I also make manual announcements as well and they STILL get it wrong!

To everyone who has said how easy it is, do you work with the general public?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

There's no reason you can't just tell people if they want to get off at a certain station they'll have to be in a certain portion of the train. Plenty of other operators do this, and it's much less annoying than closing off a whole unit. Plus the 185s come with a way of helping the guard do this - the PIS. I've often been on trains out of Liverpool that are formed as two 3-car units to be split at York, and without exception they've always displayed Scarborough in the first half and York only in the second. The same could easily be done at the other end, albeit the other way round.

Voyagers are an interesting case, particularly considering the comments above - I distinctly remember being on some in VT days with two (and even three) TMs as they said there had to be one in each unit. The RSMs didn't seem to count, though perhaps I misunderstood that bit. The most annoying one though was a rammed BHM-RDG late-night double service where they categorically refused to open up the second unit despite being dangerously loaded. Getting off at Oxford and peeking through the windows we saw... two TMs lying sprawled across the seats relaxing. No comment.

I know the two morning Liverpool Services to which you refer. The 0716 is the one which stops at Widnes and Irlam with the back set locked out of use (but with punters on board) at both. As I said I do not know the reason for this issue on the Scarborough line though.

There are a number of trains TPE run where passengers are in both sets, but the doors are only released on the front one (Hunts Cross in the evening also springs to mind), and the PIS will make the relevant announcements automatically. The outside screens even show different things. Don't ask me why something like this isn't adopted on the SCA line though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We do it down here and I would say 15% of the time there will be somebody trying to get off the locked part of the train (and we have through gangways :roll as well as auto anouncements in the locked part as well as the PIS displaying it, I also make manual announcements as well and they STILL get it wrong!

To everyone who has said how easy it is, do you work with the general public?

Yes. The 0716 ex Liverpool to Scarborough is 6 cars and first stop Widnes, which is too short for 6 cars. The platform screen says "Front 3 coaches only for Widnes". The on board automatic PIS makes announcements, and even with manual announcements prior to departure from Liverpool, at least 50% of the time there is somebody in the back wanting Widnes.

 

[AlexS]

To everyone who has said how easy it is, do you work with the general public?

Yes, I do!

 

[455driver]

To everyone who has said how easy it is, do you work with the general public?

Yes, I do!

Commiseration's

As for the OP,it may also be because the stock is not "cleared" for SDO on that line, our 458s are only cleared on a couple of lines so even though it is possible to do it on all our lines; it is only allowed on these lines that have been cleared!
Not really an issue as the 458s are captive.

 

[AlexS]

Commiseration's

Accepted and reciprocated! At least it's never boring :P