ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[InOban]

They have the same times at most of the timing points, so only one could be activated AFAIK.

Neither seems to have even been activated, let alone actually run.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2020 ==

Neither seems to have even been activated, let alone actually run.

And yet they're sending another pair of power cars south on Tuesday.

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[Northhighland]

Doesn’t look like the revised programme will be met. Don’t suppose it is that essential with the reduced passenger numbers. Can’t see numbers going back up anytime soon. We have stopped travel to central belt and with electronic systems won’t ever go back to level it was at.

 

[InOban]

power cars cancelled. It seems a long time since a delivery. Maybe they're waiting in case the RAIB discover some structural issue arising from the refurbishment,

 

[Stathern Jc]

That sounds a bit of a pessimistic thought. Is it likely that the refurbs have any vulnerability not previously present in the fleet?
Hopefully it's more likely to be that there's no pressing need to chase deliveries at the moment, and conveniently having a corresponding delay to the invoice.

 

[DB]

power cars cancelled. It seems a long time since a delivery. Maybe they're waiting in case the RAIB discover some structural issue arising from the refurbishment,

Hardly - RAIB will probably take quite some time for their final report, and what are they going to find? The only way the refurbishment could possibly have had any impact on the structure is the vestibule area, and from photos of the train it's quite clear that the only vestibule with significant end damage is the one with slam doors remaining -the others are intact in all but the coach at the bottom, where the whole thing was crushed.

I really don't understand some people on here - do you really think that structural strength won't have been fully considered when designing the modifications?

 

[DannyMich2018]

There is I believe weekdays 14 diagrammed out of 19 available sets so no rush to send any more sets up as they won't be needed. Plus the Stonehaven accident likely reduced the amount needed too so even less diagrammed at the min I assume.

 

[Speed43125]

Have been quite a lot of single 158s out of Queen street tonight, anyone know a reason for this?

 

[scotraildriver]

Until the line reopens at Stonehaven and Cadder Yard is complete there is no need and more importantly no space for any more HSTs. The plan is to put any more deliveries in store at Slateford as Haymarket has no space and there is no work for them. Not ideal though given the heavy vandalism that occurred there before so no rush now.

 

[PG]

Isn't there somewhere else ScotRail could store them which is less prone to vandalism? Might need to be route conducted and/or route cleared to get there but surely possible if they really wanted to...

 

[BRX]

Isn't there somewhere else ScotRail could store them which is less prone to vandalism? Might need to be route conducted and/or route cleared to get there but surely possible if they really wanted to...

The siding at Corrour?

 

[najaB]

Isn't there somewhere else ScotRail could store them which is less prone to vandalism? Might need to be route conducted and/or route cleared to get there but surely possible if they really wanted to...

Might be cheaper to pay for someone to watch over them.

 

[PG]

The siding at Corrour?

Might be cheaper to pay for someone to watch over them.

Haven't the RAIB recently taken a 7 year lease on Springburn works for use as secure storage? Maybe the two parties could come to an agreement?

 

[scotraildriver]

Isn't there somewhere else ScotRail could store them which is less prone to vandalism? Might need to be route conducted and/or route cleared to get there but surely possible if they really wanted to...

That's what Cadder depot is being built for. I can't think of anywhere else. All Scotrails depots are full. Dundee Yard was just as bad.

 

[najaB]

All Scotrails depots are full. Dundee Yard was just as bad.

There's two rakes of classic Mk3's being stored there at the moment (or at least there up til the last time I walked past).

 

[alangla]

Longannet? Assuming the track is still there & there’s still security guards around the power station site. I assume Bo’ness is still shut after the landslip.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Haven't the RAIB recently taken a 7 year lease on Springburn works for use as secure storage? Maybe the two parties could come to an agreement?

Is that to store the Stonehaven train for further investigations and whilst any inquiries are ongoing?

 

[Journeyman]

Longannet? Assuming the track is still there & there’s still security guards around the power station site. I assume Bo’ness is still shut after the landslip.

Yeah, the Bo'ness landslip won't be fixed for months yet.

 

[PG]

Is that to store the Stonehaven train for further investigations and whilst any inquiries are ongoing?

Yes I believe so.

 

[Journeyman]

I wish someone would just put the HST project out of its misery and buy some bimodes. New trains cost peanuts right now.

 

[najaB]

I wish someone would just put the HST project out of its misery and buy some bimodes. New trains cost peanuts right now.

The problem with going the bimode route right now is that not enough of the network is wired. For example, from GLQ to INV or ABD you're talking 34 out of 180 and 154 miles respectively. So really it would make more sense to go with straight diesel rather than lugging the extra weight around.

The HSTs serve as a stop-gap until the promised major electrification over the next few years comes to be (which is kind of fitting since they were only supposed to be a stop-gap until GWML and ECML electrification 40 years ago).

 

[scotraildriver]

Yeah, the Bo'ness landslip won't be fixed for months yet.

Nonsense. A few more days.

 

[Journeyman]

Nonsense. A few more days.

Work hasn't even started yet!

 

[Altnabreac]

Work hasn't even started yet!

I suspect you are talking at crossed purposes and ScotrailDriver thought you were referring to the Polmont land slip rather than the Bo’ness one.

 

[mcmad]

There are 2 landslides at Bo'ness. 1 on the main E&G line that will be fixed in the next week or so and 1 on the preserved railway for which works haven't started. The comments above about Bo'ness were in relation to stabling spare HST sets on the preserved railway I think.

If only TS had agreed to proceed with the stabling point at Perth New Yard then it'd be open by now.

 

[najaB]

If only TS had agreed to proceed with the stabling point at Perth New Yard then it'd be open by now.

Would it have been any better (from a vandalism point of view) than Slateford?

 

[DB]

I wish someone would just put the HST project out of its misery and buy some bimodes. New trains cost peanuts right now.

You seem to be missing the point that there will be a long delivery time, over half of the HST sets are now delivered, and there's little point in having electric capability when so small a proportion of the lines they will work are wired.

 

[hexagon789]

I wish someone would just put the HST project out of its misery and buy some bimodes. New trains cost peanuts right now.

Even if you ordered an existing design, they wouldn't be in service for quite some time and I think ScotRail would probably want a slightly more specialised design to suit their requirements, probably something with greater diesel performance more like EMR's new order.

The rest of the HSTs would be delivered before these new trains would be and given the expenditure on those it would be a waste not to use them and instead spend even more money on a new fleet.

 

[hwl]

Even if you ordered an existing design, they wouldn't be in service for quite some time and I think ScotRail would probably want a slightly more specialised design to suit their requirements, probably something with greater diesel performance more like EMR's new order.

The rest of the HSTs would be delivered before these new trains would be and given the expenditure on those it would be a waste not to use them and instead spend even more money on a new fleet.

With much electrification on the agenda, the aim with the HSTs appears to be replacing them with new electric only stock and not bothering with Bi-mode etc.

 

[Roger B]

With much electrification on the agenda, the aim with the HSTs appears to be replacing them with new electric only stock and not bothering with Bi-mode etc.

Full electrification to INV and ABD must be several years from completion, perhaps more than ten (sorry don't recall whether dates have been published)? I'd be surprised if the HSTs could soldier on for that long, of if DR would want them to, when for their final few years a significant proportion of running would be under the wires. So I'd have thought bi-modes would be the way to go, at least for the interim.

 

[najaB]

So I'd have thought bi-modes would be the way to go, at least for the interim.

It is, but when the wires have reached Perth (1/3 of GLQ to INV) and Dundee (1/2 of GLQ to ABD) at least.