Local lockdown in Greater Manchester, East Lancashire and parts of West Yorkshire - Discussion

[birchesgreen]

I read that we are also not allowed to socialise at homes outside Brum, quite how that can enforced too is a mystery.

 

[yorksrob]

Looks like Birmingham will now be added to the list of locations in the UK under a 'local lockdown' from Tuesday.

Coronavirus: Birmingham lockdown restrictions increased

Households in the city and nearby Sandwell and Solihull are banned from mixing as cases rise.

www.bbc.co.uk

The same article also makes reference to the possibility of even more locations being placed under similar 'lockdown' conditions.

That's an interesting development. So one could still go somewhere else on one's own, just not meet up with anyone there.

 

[adc82140]

It's all unenforceable, and they will have to rely on goodwill. Remember that the original lockdown was modelled on 70% compliance, and they actually got a lot more. There's nothing to stop two people from different households going to the pub and saying that they are part of a support bubble. Nobody can check.

 

[30907]

It's all unenforceable, and they will have to rely on goodwill. Remember that the original lockdown was modelled on 70% compliance, and they actually got a lot more. There's nothing to stop two people from different households going to the pub and saying that they are part of a support bubble. Nobody can check.

You are right, though if/when there is legislation (a couple of days down the road, from our Northern experience) it is enforceable. Police response will be selective (and one hopes well targeted - ISTR a report upthread of them responding to a fake report).

 

[Crossover]

I read that we are also not allowed to socialise at homes outside Brum, quite how that can enforced too is a mystery.

That will be correct. It was the same for us in Kirklees

 

[Pete_uk]

The local lockdowns are slowly heading south

 

[Bletchleyite]

The local lockdowns are slowly heading south

There comes a point where it's in so many places you might as well make it national, as the "rule of 6" thing does.

 

[adc82140]

There's a big difference between the rule of 6 and cutting off social contact altogether. It wouldn't go down well down here where the case rate is still well below the national average.

 

[Karl]

Can somebody explain to me what 'Lockdown tourists' are?

 

[AdamWW]

There comes a point where it's in so many places you might as well make it national, as the "rule of 6" thing does.

I could easily imagine we end up with an effectively national lockdown, as local lockdowns spread and merge to cover most of the UK, probably all with different rules.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Can somebody explain to me what 'Lockdown tourists' are?

I took it as meaning those who travel from Bolton to neighbouring authorities to do things now no longer permitted in Bolton - perhaps going to a McDonald's drive thru for a late night coffee, or going down the pub.

In practice, I have no idea how you'd deter them. One of my mates lives in Horwich, and is pretty infuriated about the whole situation - he's willing to walk to Chorley or Wigan just for a pint - how do you stop that? Mind, considering there have been very few cases in his part of the borough, I don't really blame him.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Can somebody explain to me what 'Lockdown tourists' are?

People come to point and stare at the poor unfortunates?

We had flood tourists after the Boxing Day 2015 floods

Or more likely people supposedly under restrictions who go elsewhere

 

[Howardh]

I took it as meaning those who travel from Bolton to neighbouring authorities to do things now no longer permitted in Bolton - perhaps going to a McDonald's drive thru for a late night coffee, or going down the pub.

In practice, I have no idea how you'd deter them. One of my mates lives in Horwich, and is pretty infuriated about the whole situation - he's willing to walk to Chorley or Wigan just for a pint - how do you stop that? Mind, considering there have been very few cases in his part of the borough, I don't really blame him.

I've read that pubs in Chorley are asking customers for ID so they prevent anyone from Bolton entering. One such place is part of the Rivington area, just outside the boundary.

As it happens I'm off to watch a game of football this afternoon, I really have no idea now what the regulations are or how they can be enforced. I'm supposed to be in London next week. If anyone asks I'll just say my name is Mr. D Cummings.

 

[duncanp]

I've read that pubs in Chorley are asking customers for ID so they prevent anyone from Bolton entering. One such place is part of the Rivington area, just outside the boundary.

As it happens I'm off to watch a game of football this afternoon, I really have no idea now what the regulations are or how they can be enforced. I'm supposed to be in London next week. If anyone asks I'll just say my name is Mr. D Cummings.

I'm off to London next week to meet up with some friends in the pub, even though I now live in a local lockdown area.

Apparently this is permitted, according to the leader of Birmingham City Council.

Best tone down the Brummie accent whilst in London though.

 

[Howardh]

I'm off to London next week to meet up with some friends in the pub, even though I now live in a local lockdown area.

Apparently this is permitted, according to the leader of Birmingham City Council.

Best tone down the Brummie accent whilst in London though.

Whey aye man, eckythump och the noo. It's totally unenforcable anyway as we don't, legally, have to carry ID and as far as I'm aware, only the police can ask if you are suspected of something. Any lawyers on here?? A bar owner's no chance. If they say we won't admit you because of where I think you come from....isn't that discrimination...illegal discrimination? Call the cops...

 

[Trackman]

I'm off to London next week to meet up with some friends in the pub, even though I now live in a local lockdown area.

Apparently this is permitted, according to the leader of Birmingham City Council.

Best tone down the Brummie accent whilst in London though.

In Bolton it’s not and will become law so they say
• travel outside of these areas to meet people in their home or garden or other venue

Whey aye man, eckythump och the noo. It's totally unenforcable anyway as we don't, legally, have to carry ID and as far as I'm aware, only the police can ask if you are suspected of something. Any lawyers on here?? A bar owner's no chance. If they say we won't admit you because of where I think you come from....isn't that discrimination...illegal discrimination? Call the cops...

Pubs reserve the right to refuse admission anyway.
Lots of pubs do it on match days and direct you to the designated away pub.

 

[317 forever]

I live in the affected area, with the border between Birmingham and Sandwell running down the street where I live.

I wonder how the councils and the police are going to enforce this.

I suspect they are going to rely largely on voluntary compliance, as there is no way they can monitor every private house.

Pubs and restaurants are remaining open although they will have to be strict about groups of people meeting up who obviously don't live together.

I understand these restrictions affect Birmingham and Sandwell, plus Solihull. I wonder how it would effect people near other boundaries, such as between Sandwell and Dudley or between Birmingham and Walsall?

Also, if Sutton Coldfield has a lower infection rate than Birmingham City, they will not appreciate being included just because the wards come under Birmingham City Council.

An unfortunate coincidence for bus companies Diamond and Transdev is that many of their operations pass through areas with greater restrictions.

That's an interesting development. So one could still go somewhere else on one's own, just not meet up with anyone there.

This is a relief for transport enthusiasts from that area wanting bus or rail trips elsewhere in the country.

 

[Howardh]

In Bolton it’s not and will become law so they say
• travel outside of these areas to meet people in their home or garden or other venue
Pubs reserve the right to refuse admission anyway.
Lots of pubs do it on match days and direct you to the designated away pub.

More updates on Adlington; one pub is allowing Boton folks in - but directing them to a seperate room. Others are checking ID and not allowing admission - although if they dont have external door staff then they can only do that once inside...kinda defeats the point (!) and the remainder don't seem to be bothered.

How a Chorley pub plans to deal with Bolton customers amid restrictions

The White Bear Inn in Adlington, Lancashire, is a short walk from the Bolton border

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

The White Bear Inn is situated in Market Street, Adlington - around a quarter of a mile from the village's border with Blackrod at Carrington Textiles.
Mr Dougill (landlord) admitted that he has changed his initial plans to ask everyone for proof of address and turn away those with a Bolton postcode, as he believes it could cause more trouble than it's worth.
He added: "I was going to ban everyone with a BL postcode but that could create massive problems outside and cause fighting.
"We've just got to police it the best we can and as long as they abide by the rules it should be fine anyway. All along we've had track and trace, no more than three people at the bar queuing, and everyone seated.
"Anyone who does come in from Bolton will be put in one part of the pub and the locals will be in another part. You can only do so much."

 

[scrapy]

There is nothing I can see that prevents people from Bolton visiting a pub or restaurant outside Bolton as long as they are alone or only with members of their household or support bubble, don't meet anyone else there and don't use public transport to get there. (The public transport thing is also only guidance not law).

On the subject of late night takeaways, can Bolton businesses provide contact free delivery after 10pm? The rules would suggest not, yet a takeaway from Bury, Salford or Wigan can provide delivery to those same addresses in Bolton 24 hours a day.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Looks like the entirety of Lancashire will be under new restrictions imminently.

Coronavirus: Lancashire expected to be placed under tighter lockdown measures

They clampdown will cover cites and towns including Preston, Lancaster, Wyre, Fylde, Chorley, Blackburn, Burnley and Rossendale.

news.sky.com

Lancashire is to be the latest part of the UK to face strict coronavirus lockdown rules, with drastic new curbs being introduced this weekend, Sky News understands.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock has told senior MPs from the county that he will announce the clampdown in the morning and the rules will come into force on Saturday.

The coronavirus restrictions, similar to those being introduced in North East England, will cover the whole of Lancashire with the exception of two thirds of the seaside resort of Blackpool.

Getting a bit tiresome now!

 

[yorksrob]

The Government is overplaying its hand in my opinion.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The Government is overplaying its hand in my opinion.

But there isn't really anything anyone can do about it. Other than by quietly ignoring the rules. The police, covid-marshalls and curtain twitchers simply cannot be everywhere. Writing to your MP will have no effect, even if they totally agree with you, as Parliament is not really being involved in any of this.

My concern is for the businesses being messed around by all this, as mentioned previously - the pubs ordering beer again, just to close early. Any real ale pub, or restaurant producing from fresh ingredients, simply cannot plan ahead. That then impacts their supply chain ie the breweries and the wholesale markets. Beauticians and the like can always keep the shampoo and nail varnish for another time. But it still doesn't give lots of people any kind of regular income going forwards. There is only so much financial reserves and emotional resiliance that people can fall back on. As time goes by, business will simply fall by the wayside as they realise the 3 weeks they knew they could manage to get by, became 3 months to struggle through, then 6 months at an absolute push, and now until early or late 2021 - depending upon who you listen to - Trump says a vaccine before the presidential election, his CDC exeprts say different.

Conversely, there do seem to be plenty of people who simply won't make any adjustments to their lifestyle. Just because pubs re-opened, everybody did not need to go rushing back as though it was all over. The same with holidays (UK or abroad).

 

[Bantamzen]

But there isn't really anything anyone can do about it. Other than by quietly ignoring the rules. The police, covid-marshalls and curtain twitchers simply cannot be everywhere. Writing to your MP will have no effect, even if they totally agree with you, as Parliament is not really being involved in any of this.

My concern is for the businesses being messed around by all this, as mentioned previously - the pubs ordering beer again, just to close early. Any real ale pub, or restaurant producing from fresh ingredients, simply cannot plan ahead. That then impacts their supply chain ie the breweries and the wholesale markets. Beauticians and the like can always keep the shampoo and nail varnish for another time. But it still doesn't give lots of people any kind of regular income going forwards. There is only so much financial reserves and emotional resiliance that people can fall back on. As time goes by, business will simply fall by the wayside as they realise the 3 weeks they knew they could manage to get by, became 3 months to struggle through, then 6 months at an absolute push, and now until early or late 2021 - depending upon who you listen to - Trump says a vaccine before the presidential election, his CDC exeprts say different.

Conversely, there do seem to be plenty of people who simply won't make any adjustments to their lifestyle. Just because pubs re-opened, everybody did not need to go rushing back as though it was all over. The same with holidays (UK or abroad).

Frankly at this juncture more and more people are asking the awkward question, "Why the hell should we make adjustments?". Because for all of the lockdowns, mask wearing, one way systems, plastic screens, hazard tape, reduced capacity, banning people from your homes, the virus is still making its merry way through us. Its almost as if it doesn't care for all these so-called solutions, and this shouldn't surprise because these are political solutions to a biological problem. And the longer we string them out, the dafter they become, and evidence grows that they have bugger all effect on the virus.

It should now be obvious to governments around the globe, scientists, experts, analysts, the UN, the WHO, the media and Karen of Facebook. The virus is going nowhere, period. Sure we might have a vaccine in the next 12 months, but this particular family of viruses has a reputation to be rather hard to knock off with vaccines, so we might want to manage expectation there. But how do we cope, what do we do? Its quite simple, drop the ineffective, highly disruptive methods and make things simple again. Look after the vulnerable and those who care for them, make them the absolute priority for regular testing and treatment. Give them the information on the kind of mitigations that will help protect themselves without having to detach from society. And for the rest of us, wash our hands regularly, cover our gobs & noses when coughing or sneezing, keep surfaces clean whenever possible, and stay home if you get symptoms. Then the virus will settle into whatever routine it was always going to settle into, and we can get back to a non-neurotic existence. Of course a few "experts" and hacks might lose their spotlight, but who really cares?

 

[yorksrob]

But there isn't really anything anyone can do about it. Other than by quietly ignoring the rules. The police, covid-marshalls and curtain twitchers simply cannot be everywhere. Writing to your MP will have no effect, even if they totally agree with you, as Parliament is not really being involved in any of this.

My concern is for the businesses being messed around by all this, as mentioned previously - the pubs ordering beer again, just to close early. Any real ale pub, or restaurant producing from fresh ingredients, simply cannot plan ahead. That then impacts their supply chain ie the breweries and the wholesale markets. Beauticians and the like can always keep the shampoo and nail varnish for another time. But it still doesn't give lots of people any kind of regular income going forwards. There is only so much financial reserves and emotional resiliance that people can fall back on. As time goes by, business will simply fall by the wayside as they realise the 3 weeks they knew they could manage to get by, became 3 months to struggle through, then 6 months at an absolute push, and now until early or late 2021 - depending upon who you listen to - Trump says a vaccine before the presidential election, his CDC exeprts say different.

Conversely, there do seem to be plenty of people who simply won't make any adjustments to their lifestyle. Just because pubs re-opened, everybody did not need to go rushing back as though it was all over. The same with holidays (UK or abroad).

To be honest, if people didn't "rush back" to the hospitality sector, it wouldn't have remained open for long anyway.

The latest proposed restrictions in Lancashire are an eye opener. Lancaster, which is to be included, had 24 cases per 100000 last week, whereas Blackpool, which is apparently being excluded, had 38 cases per 100000. This is as well as a non-essential public transport restriction being pulled out of someone's arse, with absolutely no justification as to why the existing provisions are suddenly no longer adequate.

This whole fiasco has lost any credibility that it might have had once.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be honest, if people didn't "rush back" to the hospitality sector, it wouldn't have remained open for long anyway.

The latest proposed restrictions in Lancashire are an eye opener. Lancaster, which is to be included, had 24 cases per 100000 last week, whereas Blackpool, which is apparently being excluded, had 38 cases per 100000. This is as well as a non-essential public transport restriction being pulled out of someone's arse, with absolutely no justification as to why the existing provisions are suddenly no longer adequate.

This whole fiasco has lost any credibility that it might have had once.

West Lancashire, where my parents live, will be included despite being quite low too. I read somewhere the idea was to simplify the areas covered, but that's no good for the businesses destroyed as a result.

I have totally lost faith. It went wrong when they gave any power to grossly incompetent local Councils. Unlike other countries, ours aren't fit to empty the bins and have now engaged in a Scotland style game of idiotic one-upmanship.

Our entire Governmental system is proving itself grossly unfit for purpose. And that's even on a background that I support restrictions of the type that will, and where they will, actually have benefit. That's quite a turn.

 

[yorksrob]

West Lancashire, where my parents live, will be included despite being quite low too. I read somewhere the idea was to simplify the areas covered, but that's no good for the businesses destroyed as a result.

I have totally lost faith. It went wrong when they gave any power to grossly incompetent local Councils. Unlike other countries, ours aren't fit to empty the bins and have now engaged in a Scotland style game of idiotic one-upmanship.

Our entire Governmental system is proving itself grossly unfit for purpose. And that's even on a background that I support restrictions of the type that will, and where they will, actually have benefit. That's quite a turn.

There certainly seems to have been a bit of supine aquiescence from some local authorities and politicians in this matter, although I heard on radio 4 that one local council in the Lancashire area had resisted being blanketed with this ban and been overruled.

The idea of simplifying an area such as Lancashire is a nonsense for a start. Lancaster is a very different settlement from Preston and the more urban areas of the county.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The idea of simplifying an area such as Lancashire is a nonsense for a start. Lancaster is a very different settlement from Preston and the more urban areas of the county.

And Ormskirk is to all intents and purposes part of Merseyside (or whatever you call it now), not really Lancashire. It associates principally to Liverpool rather than Preston and is full of (slightly poshed up) Scousers. It will therefore follow the spread that occurs in the Merseyside area, not the Lancashire area.

It fits Lancashire about as well as Wigan fits Greater Manchester.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Sep 2020 ==

There certainly seems to have been a bit of supine aquiescence from some local authorities and politicians in this matter

Quite the opposite. The news articles with regard to Newcastle stated that it was the local Councils that asked for the restrictions.

Local authorities, by and large, are ineffective, incompetent and should be ignored when it comes to anything more important than emptying bins. I get the idea of them doing track and trace because they have staff who can knock on doors and who have a bit of local knowledge, but beyond that? (FWIW I know someone in PHE who thinks they should devolve the whole NHS to local authorities, and believe it or not I have had some strong disagreements with him on that - it would destroy health provision entirely).

 

[yorksrob]

And Ormskirk is to all intents and purposes part of Merseyside (or whatever you call it now), not really Lancashire. It associates principally to Liverpool rather than Preston and is full of (slightly poshed up) Scousers. It will therefore follow the spread that occurs in the Merseyside area, not the Lancashire area.

It fits Lancashire about as well as Wigan fits Greater Manchester.

Yes, I don't know about Ormskirk, but Wigan was certainly stitched up with the rest of Manchester.

 

[Bantamzen]

West Lancashire, where my parents live, will be included despite being quite low too. I read somewhere the idea was to simplify the areas covered, but that's no good for the businesses destroyed as a result.

I have totally lost faith. It went wrong when they gave any power to grossly incompetent local Councils. Unlike other countries, ours aren't fit to empty the bins and have now engaged in a Scotland style game of idiotic one-upmanship.

Well when we were in Corfu last year, the locals might have disagreed slightly with this due to some serious industrial relation breakdown between the authorities & the binmen....

But yes, we are now in a downward cycle of councils trying to outdo each other. I'm just waiting for one council to suggest barricading residents in Wuhan-style, and advocate restrictions in breathing....

Our entire Governmental system is proving itself grossly unfit for purpose. And that's even on a background that I support restrictions of the type that will, and where they will, actually have benefit. That's quite a turn.

I'm afraid the genie is well & truly out of the bottle, in fact it was out of the bottle back in March. Now if governments across the world, and certainly in Europe had coordinated their efforts at the beginning of the year, perhaps control of the early part of the spread could have been managed better, allowing medical services to increase capacity & plan how best to protect those that were most at risk.

I'm afraid as I've said elsewhere that pretty much any measures taken are only kicking the can down the road. The virus is so widespread worldwide that there is no turning back. We are going to have to learn to deal with it within the parameters of normal life instead of trying miserably throw restriction after restriction in the vain hope of making the virus go away.

 

[Philip]

And Ormskirk is to all intents and purposes part of Merseyside (or whatever you call it now), not really Lancashire. It associates principally to Liverpool rather than Preston and is full of (slightly poshed up) Scousers. It will therefore follow the spread that occurs in the Merseyside area, not the Lancashire area.

It fits Lancashire about as well as Wigan fits Greater Manchester.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Sep 2020 ==



Quite the opposite. The news articles with regard to Newcastle stated that it was the local Councils that asked for the restrictions.

Local authorities, by and large, are ineffective, incompetent and should be ignored when it comes to anything more important than emptying bins. I get the idea of them doing track and trace because they have staff who can knock on doors and who have a bit of local knowledge, but beyond that? (FWIW I know someone in PHE who thinks they should devolve the whole NHS to local authorities, and believe it or not I have had some strong disagreements with him on that - it would destroy health provision entirely).

To be fair Merseyside has now also become an infection hotspot.