London - Where is Everyone?

[Howardh]

I'm coming down for a night-out next week! Love the mobile-free John Smiths' pubs; the John Snow and White Horse to name two in the centre. I'm doing my best to help the recovery..

I actually don't wantit to be too crowded so there's no faffing around trying to get in the bars, which is why I'm going midweek.

 

[Megafuss]

I spent the last Bank Holiday in London and found the central area incredibly depressing due to the lack of people. Closure of West End venues + lack of foreign tourists has gutted the centre.

But going out to zones 2 to 6 and it was only a bit quieter than I would normally find it. For example Stratford was heaving and Bromley was as busy as I remember it,

 

[Howardh]

I spent the last Bank Holiday in London and found the central area incredibly depressing due to the lack of people. Closure of West End venues + lack of foreign tourists has gutted the centre.

But going out to zones 2 to 6 and it was only a bit quieter than I would normally find it. For example Stratford was heaving and Bromley was as busy as I remember it,

Locals who want to avoid public transport, or want cheaper places as money's tight?

 

[greyman42]

I'm coming down for a night-out next week! Love the mobile-free John Smiths' pubs; the John Snow and White Horse to name two in the centre. I'm doing my best to help the recovery..

Do you mean Sam Smiths?

 

[telstarbox]

They were related!

 

[mmh]

I'm coming down for a night-out next week! Love the mobile-free John Smiths' pubs; the John Snow and White Horse to name two in the centre. I'm doing my best to help the recovery..

Sam Smiths

You've brought back memories there, I used to work across the road from the John Snow. A lovely pub, many an after work drink in there with the intention of going down the road elsewhere that never happened. Halfway to Heaven was my pub in reverse - go in to London, get off the train and pop in "for one on the way" and stay all night. Happy times!

 

[takno]

I'm coming down for a night-out next week! Love the mobile-free John Smiths' pubs; the John Snow and White Horse to name two in the centre. I'm doing my best to help the recovery..

I actually don't wantit to be too crowded so there's no faffing around trying to get in the bars, which is why I'm going midweek.

Are they mobile-free as well now? I used to quite like the one in Leeds, but the London ones were always rather joyless affairs that I tended to get dragged to, and the no-swearing rule a couple of years ago was a step too effing far for me

 

[Hadders]

Are they mobile-free as well now? I used to quite like the one in Leeds, but the London ones were always rather joyless affairs that I tended to get dragged to, and the no-swearing rule a couple of years ago was a step too effing far for me

I thought mobiles are becoming all but compulsory in pubs these days for ordering purposes!

 

[Howardh]

Yes, it is Sam Smith's, wouldn't be seen dead with a pint of John's!!!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Definitely hard times for a huge number of businesses based primarily on serving visitors and commuters and their employees and suppliers but regardless of what Boris & Co, Sadiq Khan and TfL would like from an economic perspective I do not see a big increase in numbers in Central London for at least six months.


Many leisure visits to London are centred around an event, short term exhibition or a stage performance. Travel to London is mostly by coach as part of a package or indepentantly by either NatEx or rail. Local travel is then the tube or bus. For many it is the only time they do not travel by car. While some regular museums, galleries etc. have reopened most require booking and may limit the visit time so there is limited incentive for a day trip or short break to these now.

Back in old normal times overall I wonder how often those living within the M25 or just beyond e.g. Hemel Hempstead, Slough, Windsor went to central London compared with those living around Leeds, Manchester etc visiting the city centre ? Could this at least partly explain why London has maintained a much lower level of Covid-19 infections ?

Added to this is a lack of international visitors.


For business the owners, directors and managers have numerous factors to consider against which to balance how well their business has been running for the last few months with employees working remotely. In no particular order
- how many can work in the space available while maintaining at least 2m distancing
- controlling distancing in pinch points e.g. kitchen / canteen and toilets
- managing enhanced cleaning and disinfection
- even if the building is only a few stories not a tower block managing access via lifts and stairways
- can there be a one way system ?
- disruption / inefficiency of staggered working hours
- air conditioning, heating and ventilation
- several staff if not a whole team becoming infected so unavailable, which is far less likely with remote working

Further the preferences of the staff not least the risks and changed arrangements for travel
- if Avanti, long distance GWR or LNER the need to book to be sure of being allowed on a train
- if other national / London Overground rail the risk of either trains being too busy for even 1m distance or queuing
- if not walking distance travel from the arrival station the use of central London tube and buses


Long term IMO while it would have happened gradually now I can not see the numbers who commuted long distance to then work mostly with a screen, keyboard and mouse ever returning. There are already many empty regional shops with no future and there will be more. The logical use is conversion to offices. A business could have permanent use of a complete building, a floor of a building or a suite or just rent desks as required.

Following on logically many central London office blocks will be converted to housing. Could there even be a reversal to commuting from the centre out to the suburbs to work ?

Low infections in London? Not at the start there wasn't.

 

[3rd rail land]

Long term IMO while it would have happened gradually now I can not see the numbers who commuted long distance to then work mostly with a screen, keyboard and mouse ever returning. There are already many empty regional shops with no future and there will be more. The logical use is conversion to offices. A business could have permanent use of a complete building, a floor of a building or a suite or just rent desks as required.

Following on logically many central London office blocks will be converted to housing. Could there even be a reversal to commuting from the centre out to the suburbs to work ?

The Regus type businesses who rent out office space will probably do well out of this situation.

As for central London offices becoming housing I think this is a non starter. People won't want to live on a busy street with people and vehicles going past all the time. Plus there a very few people who can afford to buy or rent a flat in central London. Sure you can convert some office space into housing in London but it'll be outside the center.

 

[telstarbox]

A lot of people already live in Central London e.g. Marylebone, Fitzrovia, Clerkenwell, Aldgate, Borough and Waterloo. They're not all bankers, there are council estates and even primary schools there. Although the main roads are of course busy, it gets very quiet and 'liveable' just one street back.

 

[kristiang85]

I was out in Soho last night. It was packed. And with the streets closed off for outdoor seating, it was a lovely atmosphere actually. Hopefully this is one thing of this era of COVID that will stay.

 

[david1212]

The Regus type businesses who rent out office space will probably do well out of this situation.

As for central London offices becoming housing I think this is a non starter. People won't want to live on a busy street with people and vehicles going past all the time. Plus there a very few people who can afford to buy or rent a flat in central London. Sure you can convert some office space into housing in London but it'll be outside the center.

At current pricing yes but as property remains unused the value will plummet. As to living on busy streets logically these will become less busy.

 

[Howardh]

I was out in Soho last night. It was packed. And with the streets closed off for outdoor seating, it was a lovely atmosphere actually. Hopefully this is one thing of this era of COVID that will stay.

There's a lot of outdoor areas being made available for drinking and eating, belatedly here (Bolton) they are thinking of closing Churchgate down but since the bars opened, the areas outside the New York and Centre Stage in the Manchester village have been closed off and used for drinking.
However, it's now September and after this week's coming last blast of summer, I can't see people sitting outside for any length of time over winter, and places like Soho may be "book ahead" only. back in Bolton, Retreat down the road has provided shelter and heating (and even is thinking of a marquee) but even so, I wouldn't sit outside unless it's over 16c.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I went to London Bridge and Borough Market and walked along Southbank on Bank Holiday Weekend. Borough Market was utterly packed, not quite as ridiculously busy as it normally is, but still very much rammed. The Southbank along to Blackfriars was very busy as well.

 

[bramling]

I went to London Bridge and Borough Market and walked along Southbank on Bank Holiday Weekend. Borough Market was utterly packed, not quite as ridiculously busy as it normally is, but still very much rammed. The Southbank along to Blackfriars was very busy as well.

It was like that round there even during lockdown. People were simply buying multipacks of cheap alcohol from the shops and then standing around drinking it, often in groups.

Goodness knows why on earth anyone would want to stand on the pavement of Borough High Street drinking beer, but there we go.

 

[greyman42]

It was like that round there even during lockdown. People were simply buying multipacks of cheap alcohol from the shops and then standing around drinking it, often in groups.

Goodness knows why on earth anyone would want to stand on the pavement of Borough High Street drinking beer, but there we go.

Social interaction.

 

[bramling]

Social interaction.

Well each to their own I suppose. Personally I’d prefer to be on my own somewhere like Blea Moor than the likes of Borough High Street, but there we go.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Fine, but can you get a decent grilled Sea Bass with pomegranate smoothie up there? If so, we'll all be joining you.

 

[westv]

I went to London Bridge and Borough Market and walked along Southbank on Bank Holiday Weekend. Borough Market was utterly packed, not quite as ridiculously busy as it normally is, but still very much rammed. The Southbank along to Blackfriars was very busy as well.

That part of London is certainly much busier than when I lived in London prior to 95.

 

[kristiang85]

However, it's now September and after this week's coming last blast of summer, I can't see people sitting outside for any length of time over winter, and places like Soho may be "book ahead" only. back in Bolton, Retreat down the road has provided shelter and heating (and even is thinking of a marquee) but even so, I wouldn't sit outside unless it's over 16c.

Well I've spent many a pleasant winter's evening in city squares on the continent, where big umbrellas and industrial heaters are set up to allow for the outdoor eating/drinking still. Obvioulsy that's a bit of an investment in terms of equipment and space, but if roads permanently become pedestrianised in cities here I'm sure it will work. Let's hope so.

 

[takno]

Well I've spent many a pleasant winter's evening in city squares on the continent, where big umbrellas and industrial heaters are set up to allow for the outdoor eating/drinking still. Obvioulsy that's a bit of an investment in terms of equipment and space, but if roads permanently become pedestrianised in cities here I'm sure it will work. Let's hope so.

Admittedly it's been put off for the winter because of Coronovirus, but France plans to ban all outdoor heaters, so it they will be getting more like us pretty soon

 

[AM9]

Admittedly it's been put off for the winter because of Coronovirus, but France plans to ban all outdoor heaters,

That's a win win! It reduces the spread by discouraging unnecessary gatherings and also helps reduce frivolous CO2 generation.

 

[greyman42]

Admittedly it's been put off for the winter because of Coronovirus, but France plans to ban all outdoor heaters, so it they will be getting more like us pretty soon

What's the thinking on banning outdoor heaters?

 

[mmh]

Goodness knows why on earth anyone would want to stand on the pavement of Borough High Street drinking beer, but there we go.

They long have though, only with expensive drinks bought from pubs. In all the years I lived in London I never understood the attraction of, for example, the Market Porter and the Wheatsheaf once gentrified when there were good and cheaper pubs a stagger away.

 

[takno]

What's the thinking on banning outdoor heaters?

They're quite bad for the environment. More details of the story at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53552526 (I won't do a full quote because it's quite tangential to the thread)

 

[Djgr]

They're quite bad for the environment. More details of the story at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53552526 (I won't do a full quote because it's quite tangential to the thread)

Yep when COVID has gone we then need to tackle the environmental calamity that will probably lead to many more casualties. Still Boris et al. are on the case, I'm sure.