Local lockdown in Greater Manchester, East Lancashire and parts of West Yorkshire - Discussion

[yorksrob]

These lockdowns are a complete waste of time. They'd be better off going door to door and testing all residents individually.

 

[Ianno87]

It's certainly keeping Greater Manchester Police busy. One example linked and quoted:

Oh the horror. Won't someone think of the children? Oh wait...

Seriously though, a city that has organised gangs, drug dealers, pimps and other criminals, and who do the Police go after? This country is seriously going completely stupid. I'm pretty much done with it.

Imagine being the kid having to remember your own birthday party being broken up by the police... Yeesh.

Meanwhile, zero interest from the police in outright dangerous driving continues....

 

[Yew]

Meanwhile, zero interest from the police in outright dangerous driving continues....

Are we at the point where more people are dying on the roads than from Covid?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's certainly keeping Greater Manchester Police busy. One example linked and quoted:

It sounds ridiculous, but this is exactly the sort of thing that's making it burn through the population up there.

 

[farleigh]

It sounds ridiculous, but this is exactly the sort of thing that's making it burn through the population up there.

'Burn through the population' equates to how many hospitalisations & deaths?

 

[Bletchleyite]

'Burn through the population' equates to how many hospitalisations & deaths?

Not very many, and I'd love to know why. I had expected an uptick in those lagging the cases by 2/4 weeks which has as yet not happened.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Imagine being the kid having to remember your own birthday party being broken up by the police... Yeesh.

Meanwhile, zero interest from the police in outright dangerous driving continues....

Well, no-one forced the family to have a party, and invite people from other households to join them.

I'll hazard a guess and say that the police tried the Educate etc approach and the families did not have the sense to take up the advice offered.

The families now have the opportunity to contest the notice in the magistrates court, if they so choose.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2020 ==

These lockdowns are a complete waste of time. They'd be better off going door to door and testing all residents individually.

Indeed they would, particularly in the small geographical areas where an outbreak is occuring (the MSOA in statistical speak), or better still in the social neighbourhoods that only those with detailed local knowledge would understand. That is why it is critical that the details of positive tests are decentralised and the response itself is decentralised to local public health teams.

Expecting people in an outbreak area to leave their homes, and possibly their neghbourhood, to then congregate at a certain point (the testing centre) seems daft. On this level, take the tests to the people. Record which households have been tested and which are absent/refuse etc. Basic boots on the ground stuff.

Locally a mobile testing centre has been set up at the primary school in the affected area. Rather more sensible than expecting people to catch the bus to the not accessibly by public transport anyway 'permanent' testing station at the football stadium. Yet another policy derived by people who assume everyone has immediate access to a private car. Instructing people from an outbreak area to catch the bus to a testing centre seems counter-productive to me anyway.

 

[takno]

Well, no-one forced the family to have a party, and invite people from other households to join them.

I'll hazard a guess and say that the police tried the Educate etc approach and the families did not have the sense to take up the advice offered.

The families now have the opportunity to contest the notice in the magistrates court, if they so choose.

Nobody forced the police to proudly tweet about it. I'll hazard a guess that somebody on the social media team tried the educate etc approach, but they did not have the sense to take up the advice offered.

GMP now have the opportunity to contest the reputation they are developing as terrible people in the court of public opinion, if they so choose.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Nobody forced the police to proudly tweet about it. I'll hazard a guess that somebody on the social media team tried the educate etc approach, but they did not have the sense to take up the advice offered.

GMP now have the opportunity to contest the reputation they are developing as terrible people in the court of public opinion, if they so choose.

I frequently think the Police use of twitter is increasingly embarrasing and it does nothing to improve their reputation. Tends to be extremely unprofessional, get down with the yoof, show your part of the people, type language. I see the Chief Constable of Derbyshire has retired, that's the force with a whole drone team filming entirely legal bahaviour and an over-enthusiastic social media team publicising the results.

 

[Jozhua]

Oh the horror. Won't someone think of the children? Oh wait...

Seriously though, a city that has organised gangs, drug dealers, pimps and other criminals, and who do the Police go after? This country is seriously going completely stupid. I'm pretty much done with it.

There have been a lot of shootings in Salford since lockdown, people keep finding stray bullets in parks and gardens.

But they've been too busy arresting people for an ounce of weed and for meeting a friend in the garden to deal with the pickaxes, robberies, guns, grenades and car bombs.

These lockdowns are a complete waste of time. They'd be better off going door to door and testing all residents individually.

That would be a much better use of resources and focus. Therefore, it will not be done.

Imagine being the kid having to remember your own birthday party being broken up by the police... Yeesh.

Meanwhile, zero interest from the police in outright dangerous driving continues....

They did nothing when I got hit by a car lol. Didn't even arrive.

Are we at the point where more people are dying on the roads than from Covid?

Most likely, yes. Should we ban non-essential road travel?

Actually yes, we totally should!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Most likely, yes. Should we ban non-essential road travel?

Actually yes, we totally should!

Be careful, the locktivists will be onto that one next...

 

[Bantamzen]

There have been a lot of shootings in Salford since lockdown, people keep finding stray bullets in parks and gardens.

But they've been too busy arresting people for an ounce of weed and for meeting a friend in the garden to deal with the pickaxes, robberies, guns, grenades and car bombs.

That is shocking to say the least. Lockivists take note, this is what happens when you try to enforce petty rules on people's lives.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, the last time they ordered an 'essential travel only' missive, I slavishly followed the guidance.

Next time they may have to nail my front door shut.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, the last time they ordered an 'essential travel only' missive, I slavishly followed the guidance.

Next time they may have to nail my front door shut.

Don't give them ideas, there are videos of the Chinese police doing just that!

 

[yorksrob]

Don't give them ideas, there are videos of the Chinese police doing just that!

It would be very bad - particularly as my door is UPVC !

 

[talldave]

Are we at the point where more people are dying on the roads than from Covid?

Way past, road deaths are around 5 a day. I suspect we're almost down at the choking on a peanut level!

 

[adc82140]

Not very many, and I'd love to know why. I had expected an uptick in those lagging the cases by 2/4 weeks which has as yet not happened.

Because those testing positive are now the young and fit, as a result of test and trace. Wind the clock back to April and you only got a test if you were seriously unwell in hospital. If they'd tested and traced like we are now in April, I reckon we'd have been returning something like 50000 cases a day. UK wide hospital admissions yesterday were 95 testing positive (and that's 95 who were admitted to hospital or came through A&E for whatever reason and happened to test positive). Bear in mind that just one busy hospital will see that amount of patients in A&E in a morning, so that gives you a idea how how many patients in total are admitted to UK hospitals daily in general.

 

[Crossover]

I'm pretty sure you are - you could meet one other person outside your household in a public outdoor place only provided you distanced from them by 2 metres. This wasn't put across as an opportunity to meet people in the advice, but rather so you didn't have to shun someone you met along the way in order to avoid breaking the law.

I'm still fairly sure the meeting 2m apart came later. I often take a lunch break walk with my colleague when in the office and we didn't do it for a few weeks during the main stretch of lockdown. It then became limited to 2 people with distancing (so when someone else asked to join, they couldn't)

I have been having a look back and what was laid out by the Government (be it this quote is from the GOV.UK Twitter account) on what one could leave the house for included (my bold)
"One form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household"

So this new "lockdown" is not quite as strict as the actual lockdown - from what I can see there are no prohibitions on the amount one may leave the house, and of course various places are open that weren't in late March/April, but you still couldn't meet anyone, anywhere (that being covered quite explicitly in the lockdown "speech")

 

[Bantamzen]

Well we've just had an interesting moment here. A Police van full of officers have pulled up at a block of flats nearby, several of them ran in, then ran straight out looking entirely confused. When I asked one of them what the problem was, they said that they had a report that some different households might be mixing. Clearly that wasn't the case, because they left quicker than they arrived, but it begs the question, what the hell? In the past I've personally reported far more serious crimes only to have to wait wait hours, sometimes days for them to show up. But someone falsely reporting different households mixing and they send in half a dozen officers.

A formal complaint will be filed tomorrow.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Where's "here"? West Yorkshire presumably?

 

[Bantamzen]

Where's "here"? Greater Manchester / West Yorkshire / elsewhere?

West Yorkshire, Baildon which is north of Bradford.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is that one of the areas regularly featured at 70 mph + on "Police Interceptors"?

 

[Jozhua]

Be careful, the locktivists will be onto that one next...

True dat, but that poses actual risk to most people, especially the young and poor.

That is shocking to say the least. Lockivists take note, this is what happens when you try to enforce petty rules on people's lives.

Yeah, they really are petty rules.

Well, the last time they ordered an 'essential travel only' missive, I slavishly followed the guidance.

Next time they may have to nail my front door shut.

Yeah, same tbh.

Don't give them ideas, there are videos of the Chinese police doing just that!

Yep. Very disturbing.

Because those testing positive are now the young and fit, as a result of test and trace. Wind the clock back to April and you only got a test if you were seriously unwell in hospital. If they'd tested and traced like we are now in April, I reckon we'd have been returning something like 50000 cases a day. UK wide hospital admissions yesterday were 95 testing positive (and that's 95 who were admitted to hospital or came through A&E for whatever reason and happened to test positive). Bear in mind that just one busy hospital will see that amount of patients in A&E in a morning, so that gives you a idea how how many patients in total are admitted to UK hospitals daily in general.

Yeah, a lot more people got infected in March than thought. Our case fatality rate is much higher than the US & others. At a 0.5% death rate, which is inline with just detected antibody immunity in Sweden, 13% (8m) of people in the UK have had it.

The death rate will obviously depend on how many vulnerable people have been infected and the UK gov has been good at killing those.

But I think the rate, spread equally over the population is probably 0.5% at most, with new treatments, probably 0.4% at most. 0.3 is probably more likely.

Well we've just had an interesting moment here. A Police van full of officers have pulled up at a block of flats nearby, several of them ran in, then ran straight out looking entirely confused. When I asked one of them what the problem was, they said that they had a report that some different households might be mixing. Clearly that wasn't the case, because they left quicker than they arrived, but it begs the question, what the hell? In the past I've personally reported far more serious crimes only to have to wait wait hours, sometimes days for them to show up. But someone falsely reporting different households mixing and they send in half a dozen officers.

A formal complaint will be filed tomorrow.

People have reported break ins and police have not come. Police didn't come when I got hit by a car...

Oh, and the police still haven't caught the guy who stole a friend of a friends motorbike at pickaxe....

Oh or the guy who mugged my friend, or spiked the drink of my other friend...

Is that one of the areas regularly featured at 70 mph + on "Police Interceptors"?

Salford? Would be, if the traffic wasn't so bad.

 

[Bantamzen]

People have reported break ins and police have not come. Police didn't come when I got hit by a car...

Oh, and the police still haven't caught the guy who stole a friend of a friends motorbike at pickaxe....

Oh or the guy who mugged my friend, or spiked the drink of my other friend...

Not that I would wish anything bad to happen to anyone, but if it did I would now suggest rather than ringing 999 & stating the true nature of the crime, I would instead advise people to say "There are more than two families mixing in the house next to where I am". Within minutes an entire squad of Police will surely descend to deal with this most terrible of alleged crimes...

 

[Huntergreed]

Not that I would wish anything bad to happen to anyone, but if it did I would now suggest rather than ringing 999 & stating the true nature of the crime, I would instead advise people to say "There are more than two families mixing in the house next to where I am". Within minutes an entire squad of Police will surely descend to deal with this most terrible of alleged crimes...

Directly observed this last night - I saw the police in Glasgow city centre dispersing gatherings last night (absolutely nobody is bothering with distancing here anymore, which I think is a good thing), and pubs are clearly not following the “statutory guidance” issued by Sturgeon as there was music playing and chairs were less than 1m apart in all instances I observed!!

Meanwhile I was walking back to my hotel and I observed many drug users, a couple of really beaten-up individuals and there was no police in sight.

 

[317 forever]

This is the current case data for Oldham. Should the whole town be locked down, or certain neighbourhoods?

View attachment 82453

Similarly for the bottom end of Stoke-on-Trent. Just where is the need for a lockdown (or indeed any measures beyond 'stay alert')?

View attachment 82454

For the graphically challenged, the post shows screenshots of the COVID 19 case data, for Oldham and Stoke-on-Trent, for the period 9th to 15th August 2020. Highlighting the Middle Super Output Areas and the numbers of cases in each. The deeper the colour, the greater the number of cases. In the case of Oldham, there are two area with a high number of cases, and several areas with relatively fewer. In the case of Stoke-on-Trent it shows one area with a high number of cases and most areas with no cases at all.

A Middle Super Output Area contains an average of 7,200 residents

A Councillor, I believe from a rural ward well outside the town, was horrified at the idea of further lockdown measures for the whole of Oldham borough, as he gave Lees and Saddleworth as examples of areas with negligible numbers of cases.

 

[greyman42]

Meanwhile I was walking back to my hotel and I observed many drug users, a couple of really beaten-up individuals and there was no police in sight.

Sounds like Glasgow has already returned to normal.

 

[Jozhua]

Not that I would wish anything bad to happen to anyone, but if it did I would now suggest rather than ringing 999 & stating the true nature of the crime, I would instead advise people to say "There are more than two families mixing in the house next to where I am". Within minutes an entire squad of Police will surely descend to deal with this most terrible of alleged crimes...

"A large gathering of ethnic minorities not socially distancing" will get them round even faster! (Only reserve for the most dire circumstances)

 

[Trackman]

Talk of restrictions in Stockport and Bolton being lifted this week.

 

[Crossover]

It looks like some restrictions will be lifted from Wednesday 2nd Sep in various areas of the affected areas

E.g. for Kirklees, it looks like restrictions will be lifted throughout, with the exceptions of Dewsbury and Batley