Local lockdown in Greater Manchester, East Lancashire and parts of West Yorkshire - Discussion

[takno]

Probably more than what you think. Anyone who has been able to work from home and does not have much of a social life has probably noticed very little difference.
If you are in this category and prefer working from home you may well want this to go on forever.

Some people I know who can't be bothered going out or have moved to the middle of nowhere may feel that the whole Zoom thing has improved their social life. I stopped even trying to do social Zoom calls because certain friends-of-friends clearly loved it and wanted it to keep going forever, which started to really grind me down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some people I know who can't be bothered going out or have moved to the middle of nowhere may feel that the whole Zoom thing has improved their social life. I stopped even trying to do social Zoom calls because certain friends-of-friends clearly loved it and wanted it to keep going forever, which started to really grind me down.

I have certainly spent more time "with" (virtually) both family and University friends as a result of all this Zooming. While it doesn't replace proper socialising in person, it's something I hope we will carry on on occasions rather than only seeing each other a few times a year.

 

[geoffk]

I am, as usual, awaiting the legal text of the S.I., which has in the past diverged considerably from the announcements.

I've got a copy of the relevant Part 2, which doesn't mention pubs or restaurants, so, while it's advised not to meet friends in the pub, it's not illegal. Today an estate agent came to my house, my first visitor since February, when the boiler engineer came! This is allowed of course. It's not a lockdown at all, just restrictions on meeting up in homes and gardens.

 

[Crossover]

I have to say I’m kind of losing track a bit. I know there has been some changes made over the weekend but I don’t think it applies to these affected areas or Leicester. It probably doesn’t help that establishments (not that I’ve ended up visiting any of late) interpret the rules in various ways so some are more restrictive in what they’ll allow than others further confusing matters. It kind of just progressively becomes ‘noise’ in among the general daily grind (I’m working full time and have been throughout, so plenty other stuff in mind!)

 

[adc82140]

Perhaps there could be some sort of traffic light system so we know what restriction level we're at in each area.



Oh wait...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

You'd still have some folk driving through flashing red lights!

(Oh wait, wrong thread, were talking about Manchester not Manningtree here!)

 

[duncanp]

At least someone in a local authority is talking some common sense

The important bit, which I have put in bold is that "...If businesses like pubs have to shut then patrons will simply go to drink elsewhere and spread the virus, he added...." And not just pubs either.

The last thing you want is for people in an area with a high infection rate to travel to other neighbouring areas with lower infection rates. It would be very difficult to seal off an area like Oldham from the outside world.

Perhaps it might end up with the government advising against all but essential travel to Oldham.

But if you look at the graph in the article, the daily case rate in Oldham has dropped quite sharply, which suggests that the current measures are working and should be given more time to work.

Coronavirus: Oldham local lockdown 'would be a disaster', council leader says

The health secretary has not ruled out imposing further restrictions on the area, which has the highest two-week case rate.

news.sky.com

Putting Oldham into a coronavirus local lockdown would be a "disaster", the leader of the local council has told Sky News.

Sean Fielding said the area was so "completely and utterly interwoven" with other parts of Manchester that putting firmer restrictions on the borough would be "really impractical".

Oldham currently has the highest two-week COVID-19 case rate across England, Scotland and Wales.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock earlier did not rule out extending a local lockdown to the area.

But Mr Fielding said while infections are rising, hospital admissions and deaths are not.

The people catching coronavirus are only suffering "quite a mild illness" and "spreading it internally within their households", he added.

If businesses like pubs have to shut then patrons will simply go to drink elsewhere and spread the virus, he added.

Several areas across Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire, East Lancashire and Leicester have already faced tougher restrictions for more than two weeks to try and contain the spread of coronavirus.

At its last review point on Friday, the government raised particular concern over Oldham.

"Progress will be assessed throughout the weekend and early next week," an announcement at the time said, fuelling fears the borough was on the cup of intervention by ministers.

Mr Fielding pushed strongly against that course.

He told Sky News on Wednesday: "All the businesses that have made preparations to make themselves COVID-secure would now be being asked to close down again.

"And of course there's no certainty over whether there will be any support or compensation offered to those businesses if they were force to closed.

"I anticipate that if they were, then sadly we would see many of them not open again - and in Oldham's already fragile economy, that would be a disaster."

He denied prioritising the economy over public health, adding: "I don't believe that a local lockdown is one of the solutions we should be pursuing."

Ministers handed powers to councils to declare local lockdowns - but can still impose them if deemed necessary.

Mr Hancock did not rule out doing so on Wednesday.

He told the BBC: "Places like Oldham, where we are now seeing the number of cases rise, we have to take the same localised approach, working very closely with the local council, and make sure we get both the messages to the public and also the rules right in place and the resources, like the testing resources, to get a grip on it in all the areas where there is an outbreak, including Oldham."

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Genuine question... Is virus spread in places such as Oldham most likely to be caused by insufficient distancing in pubs, etc., or other scenarios, such as workplaces, cramped multi-generational housing, places of worship, etc.?

 

[Bantamzen]

Genuine question... Is virus spread in places such as Oldham most likely to be caused by insufficient distancing in pubs, etc., or other scenarios, such as workplaces, cramped multi-generational housing, places of worship, etc.?

It is the government's opinion that the most likely source of spread, outside of health & care environments, is in people's homes. Hence why they have banned much of us in the North from seeing family & friends even in gardens.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thanks, I should really have known that.

 

[Bantamzen]

At least someone in a local authority is talking some common sense

The important bit, which I have put in bold is that "...If businesses like pubs have to shut then patrons will simply go to drink elsewhere and spread the virus, he added...." And not just pubs either.

The last thing you want is for people in an area with a high infection rate to travel to other neighbouring areas with lower infection rates. It would be very difficult to seal off an area like Oldham from the outside world.

Perhaps it might end up with the government advising against all but essential travel to Oldham.

But if you look at the graph in the article, the daily case rate in Oldham has dropped quite sharply, which suggests that the current measures are working and should be given more time to work.

Coronavirus: Oldham local lockdown 'would be a disaster', council leader says

The health secretary has not ruled out imposing further restrictions on the area, which has the highest two-week case rate.

news.sky.com

Hopefully this is the start of the realisation amongst politicians that patience, especially in the more restricted areas is starting to run thin. More lockdowns without really good evidence that they will do a lot more than stopping a few people feeling rubbish for a few days will do little to enhance this mood, quite the reverse. Signs overseas are starting to show people reaching their limit, for example anti-mask protests in Madrid, and so that will slowly spread. There is only so far you can push the population before the population pushes back.

Thanks, I should really have known that.

No worries, its such a mess at the moment it can be hard to know where we are.

 

[Crossover]

But if you look at the graph in the article, the daily case rate in Oldham has dropped quite sharply, which suggests that the current measures are working and should be given more time to work.

There were mutterings last week of a lockdown in Oldham, but it did feel a bit premature given the restrictions wouldn't have had time to take effect

 

[jtuk]

Genuine question... Is virus spread in places such as Oldham most likely to be caused by insufficient distancing in pubs, etc., or other scenarios, such as workplaces, cramped multi-generational housing, places of worship, etc.?

It's likely the same as everywhere else and they've just tested more

 

[Trackman]

Genuine question... Is virus spread in places such as Oldham most likely to be caused by insufficient distancing in pubs, etc., or other scenarios, such as workplaces, cramped multi-generational housing, places of worship, etc.?

They have found the cause of the spread in Oldham- basically it's a large family who have spread it to an extended family.
Looking at the news today, Oldham could go in lockdown today.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

They have found the cause of the spread in Oldham- basically it's a large family who have spread it to an extended family.
Looking at the news today, Oldham could go in lockdown today.

That being the case, the remainder of the population of Oldham would have good cause for complaint, as there is no real risk to the vast majority of them. Locking down whole towns because one street (or even neighbourhood) is affected really is not going to work going forwards.

 

[duncanp]

Looking at the news today, Oldham could go in lockdown today.

Not if the current figures are anything to go by.

If you look at the graph in

Official UK Coronavirus Dashboard

GOV.UK Coronavirus dashboard

coronavirus.data.gov.uk

you can see that the number of cases detected per day peaked at 52 on 8th August, and is 15 today.

The 7 day moving average of cases detected shows a significant drop, which suggests that the current measures are working, but they need a little more time to get the numbers back down to where they should be.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

This is the current case data for Oldham. Should the whole town be locked down, or certain neighbourhoods?



Similarly for the bottom end of Stoke-on-Trent. Just where is the need for a lockdown (or indeed any measures beyond 'stay alert')?



For the graphically challenged, the post shows screenshots of the COVID 19 case data, for Oldham and Stoke-on-Trent, for the period 9th to 15th August 2020. Highlighting the Middle Super Output Areas and the numbers of cases in each. The deeper the colour, the greater the number of cases. In the case of Oldham, there are two area with a high number of cases, and several areas with relatively fewer. In the case of Stoke-on-Trent it shows one area with a high number of cases and most areas with no cases at all.

A Middle Super Output Area contains an average of 7,200 residents

 

[Jamesrob637]

Wigan becomes the first Greater Manchester borough to be free of extra restrictions and brought into line with the rest of the country. Others to follow soon.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wigan becomes the first Greater Manchester borough to be free of extra restrictions and brought into line with the rest of the country. Others to follow soon.

Wigan was a poor fit all along - really it's a poor fit for Greater Manchester generally and would do better as part of West Lancashire.

 

[MDB1images]

I read one report today that as restrictions in Blackburn, Oldham and Pendle are being tightened from Saturday that they would be requested not to use Public Transport except for essential journeys.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I read one report today that as restrictions in Blackburn, Oldham and Pendle are being tightened from Saturday that they would be requested not to use Public Transport except for essential journeys.

Yes, that seems to be correct - they are basically being put into full lockdown other than businesses not closing. That's serious! It's actually stricter than the original lockdown as that allowed two people to meet outdoors, this doesn't.

Coronavirus: Tighter rules for Oldham, Pendle and Blackburn

Residents of Oldham and parts of Pendle and Blackburn face stricter Covid-19 restrictions.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[NorthOxonian]

Yes, that seems to be correct - they are basically being put into full lockdown other than businesses not closing. That's serious! It's actually stricter than the original lockdown as that allowed two people to meet outdoors, this doesn't.

Coronavirus: Tighter rules for Oldham, Pendle and Blackburn

Residents of Oldham and parts of Pendle and Blackburn face stricter Covid-19 restrictions.

www.bbc.co.uk

One interesting (and sensible imo) point from that is that Blackburn and Darwen are to be decoupled, despite being in the same borough. Darwen will be treated the same as Wigan and Rossendale with the current restrictions dropped, while Blackburn will have these new stricter restrictions.

 

[geoffk]

I read one report today that as restrictions in Blackburn, Oldham and Pendle are being tightened from Saturday that they would be requested not to use Public Transport except for essential journeys.

I assume this means the whole of Oldham Borough, including the Saddleworth villages, which are in a rural area and totally different in character from central Oldham. Residents there won't be happy given that they still see themselves as belonging to Yorkshire! Yet Blackburn and Darwen are, sensibly, now being treated differently.

 

[Crossover]

Yes, that seems to be correct - they are basically being put into full lockdown other than businesses not closing. That's serious! It's actually stricter than the original lockdown as that allowed two people to meet outdoors, this doesn't.

Coronavirus: Tighter rules for Oldham, Pendle and Blackburn

Residents of Oldham and parts of Pendle and Blackburn face stricter Covid-19 restrictions.

www.bbc.co.uk

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe the original lockdown permitted meeting anyone outside of your household in either public or private spaces (as such, any exercise had to be solo, or with your household group)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe the original lockdown permitted meeting anyone outside of your household in either public or private spaces (as such, any exercise had to be solo, or with your household group)

I'm pretty sure you are - you could meet one other person outside your household in a public outdoor place only provided you distanced from them by 2 metres. This wasn't put across as an opportunity to meet people in the advice, but rather so you didn't have to shun someone you met along the way in order to avoid breaking the law.

 

[30907]

I assume this means the whole of Oldham Borough, including the Saddleworth villages, which are in a rural area and totally different in character from central Oldham. Residents there won't be happy given that they still see themselves as belonging to Yorkshire! Yet Blackburn and Darwen are, sensibly, now being treated differently.

Part of Blackburn is derestricted too - doesn't follow traditional or modern (M65) boundaries.

 

[Jozhua]

The new lockdown rules that have come into force are completely ridiculous. As someone who lives alone, my anxiety has been awful during lockdown. For those who are sceptical of mental health, I'll detail what has happened:
-Diziness and vomiting
-Inability to eat (lost 1-2 stone)
-Pains and cramps.

Being able to get out and socialise has helped to distract me and help me recover. I don't think I'll survive another lockdown.

Which means if you're going to do it, you have to do it properly, with strong enforcement and zero tolerance. A couple of weeks back to Zoom parties and the case rate will come down.

Press X to doubt.

When you start looking at the costs of this, you soon see that it's not for the greater good.

Yep. Entirely agreed.

Perhaps there could be some sort of traffic light system so we know what restriction level we're at in each area.



Oh wait...

That would be sensible, but the tories say one thing and do another. The communication has been a joke.

 

[Crossover]

I'm pretty sure you are - you could meet one other person outside your household in a public outdoor place only provided you distanced from them by 2 metres. This wasn't put across as an opportunity to meet people in the advice, but rather so you didn't have to shun someone you met along the way in order to avoid breaking the law.

I'm still fairly sure the meeting 2m apart came later. I often take a lunch break walk with my colleague when in the office and we didn't do it for a few weeks during the main stretch of lockdown. It then became limited to 2 people with distancing (so when someone else asked to join, they couldn't)

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It's certainly keeping Greater Manchester Police busy. One example linked and quoted:

Officers attended a property in #Swinton where 3 families were celebrating a child's birthday in a private garden. The homeowner has been issued with a fixed penalty notice.

 

[Bantamzen]

It's certainly keeping Greater Manchester Police busy. One example linked and quoted:

Oh the horror. Won't someone think of the children? Oh wait...

Seriously though, a city that has organised gangs, drug dealers, pimps and other criminals, and who do the Police go after? This country is seriously going completely stupid. I'm pretty much done with it.