Are chain restaurants and shops failing because of COVID, or are they just not very good?

[Djgr]

Pizza Express Stoke-on-Trent

Garlic Bread, Pizza, glass of beer £25!!!

I rest my case.

 

[Ianno87]

Pizza Express Stoke-on-Trent

Garlic Bread, Pizza, glass of beer £25!!!

I rest my case.

You could buy a house in some parts of the city for that price?!

 

[johntea]

My favourite "chain restaurant" is...Wetherspoons

It's a burger or a curry or a steak with a drink for around a ten pound note every time and you know exactly what to expect

I don't mind Nandos as I get a 20% NHS discount so that makes them quite reasonable, and it is unlimited soft drinks so no £3 a time for another coke or whatever!

 

[najaB]

Chain restaurants are good when you're visiting another place, and don't want to risk somewhere with horrible food, poor hygiene and high prices.

That's the point of chains - people know what they're going to get. The reason that chain restaurants are failing is twofold: the very nature of the chain means that they don't vary the menu as much as independents because that means training hundreds of staff on new recipes, calibrating them across different locations, etc. - so they are less likely to get repeat business from the local area; and secondly the logistics are involved in having the same menu across the country can be more expensive than sourcing locally (though, this is somewhat offset by the purchasing power of bulk buying).

Edit: Forgot to add - chains, by their nature - also tend to choose prime (read "more expensive") premises than independents too.

 

[PeterC]

As somebody remarked upthread, you just don't hear about local restaurants failing.

As far as chains go, I will stop at an OK Diner when driving up the A1 and in central London I will usually use Yo! Sushi for a quick meal before a gig. Other than that I will usually look for an independent or maybe go a little out of my way to use one I know. The value of the chains to me is that they tend to be open when you want a meal at a non standard time.

 

[Ianno87]

As somebody remarked upthread, you just don't hear about local restaurants failing.

As far as chains go, I will stop at an OK Diner when driving up the A1 and in central London I will usually use Yo! Sushi for a quick meal before a gig. Other than that I will usually look for an independent or maybe go a little out of my way to use one I know. The value of the chains to me is that they tend to be open when you want a meal at a non standard time.

The wife and I have grown to like Yo Sushi of late (pre-Covid). It's nature is very casual, and you can vary it to be what you want to be - a couple of quick plates for lunch, or sit in and spend a bit for a nicer 'meal' - and the rice dishes were good for the 2 year old.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Chain restaurants are there to pay debts, not serve excellent food.

Pizzaexpress ended up with a debt of over £1bn by constant takeovers and owners borrowing against the future income.

Exactly!

 

[xotGD]

I've had some great meals at chain restaurants. I've had some disappointing meals.

Likewise at independent places.

I think there is certainly a psychological element of diners not wanting to just be eating the same as everyone else. But on the flip side if you know it is going to be good then it is a safe option.

Those with the best food, the best customer experience and the strongest finances will survive.

Poor food, poor service, uncomfortable surroundings and a pile of debt is a recipe for closure.

 

[43066]

£300 for 2 ? !

In my part of the world that bill would be followed with a loud "HOW MUCH!!??!!"....

It’s a good experience, not a regular experience.

 

[Belperpete]

Chain restaurants are there to pay debts, not serve excellent food.
Pizzaexpress ended up with a debt of over £1bn by constant takeovers and owners borrowing against the future income.

I think that you have hit the nail on the head. Most of the chains only became chains by taking on massive debt to finance their expansions, takeovers, etc. The model works OK as long as they get a continuous income stream to service the debit.

The other problem is that they tend to be very samey, with identical menus for long periods of time. The food is usually OK, something that I would eat if working away, but generally not something I would go out especially for. A lot of them survive on the family market, places you know you can take noisy kids without upsetting everyone. TGI and Nandos did well by being the "cool" place to go, but unfortunately "coolness" doesn't last for ever. Weatherspoons does well as the place of last resort - if there is nowhere better, you know you can rely on them for something passable.

There were apparently many who relied on takeaway food for all their main meals, doing no cooking themselves. I wonder if the pandemic has weaned them off this for good, or if they will drift back to their old ways.

 

[westv]

The chains do seem to love giving out discount vouchers.

 

[AM9]

The chains do seem to love giving out discount vouchers.

That's a lot easier than amending all the menus across all branches. A small independent place just chalks the prices of 'specials' on a blackboard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair, I do like a "cheeky Nando's" and would be happy for them to leave their menu as is! I think they are one of the better ones, though if they're in a rush quality can suffer.

 

[westv]

That's a lot easier than amending all the menus across all branches. A small independent place just chalks the prices of 'specials' on a blackboard.

A discount code to make people think they are getting a bargain on an overpriced menu isn't really the same thing as a "specials" board which list items that are perhaps for that day only.

 

[43066]

Listen at £300 for 2, I want that cow to have been hand-fed the finest grasses known to humanity, had daily massages from highly skilled masseurs, had regular therapy sessions and given the freedom of a field the size of Gibraltar.

Nah, who am I kidding? I'm from Yorkshire. Three hundred brick for a couple of slabs of cow & a bottle of plonk is a rip off. I've travelled around the Med and had food that has simply blown me away for less than 10% of that cost.

Completely agree, especially with your last sentence - it isn’t all about cost. Give me a decent independent any day. Unfortunately we don’t do eating out very well in the UK, it’s done far better (and more cheaply) in Europe.

Somewhere like Goodman (technically a chain as they have three branches!) can be done less expensively if you don’t go silly with the wine. A large fillet steak is £50, so it’s never going to be a cheap meal, but the slick, polished experience justifies it for an occasional blow out.

I’d argue the places they really rip people off are your standard chains. Miller & Carter is a good example. I’ll never go back there because when I order a fillet steak I don’t expect to be served a grey hunk of fat, followed by an argument about with a spotty 18yo about why I’m not going to pay £30 for it. Cafe Rouge is another terrible, terrible chain restaurant where you’ll be charged £15 for a main, and you’ll receive service with a snarl.

 

[3rd rail land]

I’d rather spend my money on a holiday or something for the house rather than wasting it on that.

Pizza Express is very tasty and very good value. With Tastecard never pay more than £15 a head for three courses and drinks, and I have the food I want and enjoy rather than something expensive that I have to pretend is enjoyable.

Back in November last year my team met up from all over England and Scotland and most people were happy with the suggestion of going to Pizza Express for dinner. I wanted to go somewhere a bit more 'up market' but I have to admit I thought the food was decent for the price. That said it seems like my 2 courses and a pint were overpriced at about £25. Its affordable causal dining done reasonably well.

Talking of casual dining I ate at Carluccio's back in December and I thought the food was good quality. The £40 I paid included 3 courses, several glasses of wine and the tip. Good value in my opinion and the staff were very friendly.

Some casual dining chains are not good but equally there are some really good ones and I hope the good ones survive but I am not holding out too much hope. Casual dining is great is great for going out with work colleagues or friends at an affordable price.

 

[xotGD]

you’ll receive service with a snarl

Replicating the authentic Paris experience!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Many of the national mid-range restaurant chains are both over-priced and poor value for money. Won't be at all saddened to see the likes of Frankie's & Benny's disappear from off the high street.

 

[cactustwirly]

Many of the national mid-range restaurant chains are both over-priced and poor value for money. Won't be at all saddened to see the likes of Frankie's & Benny's disappear from off the high street.

They're not that overpriced, just some of the food and service is poor.
A lot of the pubs are more expensive.

 

[si404]

Won't be at all saddened to see the likes of Frankie's & Benny's disappear from off the high street.

I think we're also seeing a turning away from chain Italian in the nation's taste - partially as we can make it at home cheaply and fairly easily thanks to TV Chefs like Jamie Oliver, partially as non-chain Italians are more common now, and partially as the fashion has moved on - Italian was really popular a while ago, but has reverted back towards a base line.

(Obviously Italians will be appalled to see Frankie & Benny's considered Italian - it's explicitly American Italian, which is rather different).

 

[SuspectUsual]

As somebody remarked upthread, you just don't hear about local restaurants failing.

Probably because the local paper that would have reported it is now cut back to one day a week and nobody buys it apart from parents wanting to be able to humblebrag about the write-up little Johnny has got on the kids sport page

To me, there’s two things that haven’t yet been mentioned (I think) that are impacting the mid-market chains;

1 - they’ve got lazy and used to being profitable and they’ve lost their focus on being innovative and offering great service

2 - as lockdown ends and people continue working from home, far fewer people are travelling for their work. These were the people, on work expenses, who *weren’t* using a groupon / wowcher deal and were paying full price. Their loss is absolutely killing them

 

[Mojo]

I agree, I think people have realised during lockdown that it’s so much cheaper doing that, because you don’t pay ludicrous prices for drinks like you do when you’re eating out.

I’ve never understood the point of Deliveroo / Uber Eats because it seems substantially more expensive than eating in as well as a limited menu. I have used Justeat as that tends to be smaller independent takeaways but less imposing than calling up to place an order.

Just had a look at a delivery for Pizza Express and they want £36.78 (of which nearly £2 is fees); this is for two pizzas (from which the offering is very restricted), one dough balls and two drinks (none of which I like).

We’re in a position that on our High Street most of the restaurants are independent, but none of the other pizza places serve anything as tasty as my regular orders in Pizza Express, and unfortunately are also more expensive.

 

[Belperpete]

To me, there’s two things that haven’t yet been mentioned (I think) that are impacting the mid-market chains;
1 - they’ve got lazy and used to being profitable and they’ve lost their focus on being innovative and offering great service
2 - as lockdown ends and people continue working from home, far fewer people are travelling for their work. These were the people, on work expenses, who *weren’t* using a groupon / wowcher deal and were paying full price. Their loss is absolutely killing them

Working from home may well be affecting the likes of Subway, Costa and the like (and also local sandwich outlets), but I doubt that it is affecting the chain restaurants much. How many people go to a restaurant in their lunch break these days, even if working away from home? My company would pay for an evening meal, but certainly not a full mid-day meal.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Working from home may well be affecting the likes of Subway, Costa and the like (and also local sandwich outlets), but I doubt that it is affecting the chain restaurants much. How many people go to a restaurant in their lunch break these days, even if working away from home? My company would pay for an evening meal, but certainly not a full mid-day meal.

That was my point - people away overnight with work paying full price

 

[Hadders]

Surprised no-one's mentioned the increased cost of employing people as one of the reasons for chain prices being high.

Over the last 5-10 years there's been a significant increase in the minimum wage, plus additional employers pension contributions and apprenticeship levy.

Then add in increased business rates and it's not surprising that many chain restaurants are struggling.

 

[Tetchytyke]

In my part of the world that bill would be followed with a loud "HOW MUCH!!??!!"....

You wouldn't pay that in Yorkshire for good food, as Jay Rayner points out in his review of the Waterside in Shipley.

Waterside Bistro, Shipley: ‘a much missed old friend’ – restaurant review

A long-overdue lunch at Paul Huddlestone’s place in Yorkshire felt like coming home, says Jay Rayner

www.theguardian.com

Waterside Bistro and Bar, Wharf Street, Shipley BD17 7DW (01274 594 444). Starters £5.50-£8.50, mains £17-£29, desserts £7.50, wines from £18

Some of the best journeys bring you right back home. Paul Huddleston has been on exactly that journey. For a few years he cooked at the Criterion, when Marco Pierre White had the lease on London’s most outrageous room, and used it to make chicken kiev sexy. Afterwards he went to Paris to cook at another landmark, Le Jules Verne, perched on the second floor of the Eiffel Tower, where it could look down on all the other restaurants. Superstar chef Alain Ducasse was in charge then and he liked to dispatch his brigades off on stints at his other outposts. Huddleston went to the Michelin three-star Louis XV in Monaco, where the dining room groans with pendulous chandeliers and the glint and shimmer of the Mediterranean is part of the deal.

Finally, Huddleston made that trip home, to open his own restaurant by his own stretch of water. He returned to an old Yorkshire stone Quayside building in Shipley, down by the canal where the painted houseboats nudge each other along, and the dogs who live aboard those barges stand forever proud, sniffing the air, faithful until death. It’s not Monaco. It’s much better than that.

Somewhere I'm looking forward to trying when I can finally go home for a visit.

As for why chain restaurants are failing: private equity. Pre-Covid anyway. Before debt payments, Pizza Express is/was profitable. Most of these restaurants are. The problem is the leveraged takeovers and the resultant debt mountain. Someone is going to pay for the hubris and, as it 2007, I suspect it will be the taxpayer.

Pizza Express do a decent pizza at a decent price. It's not amazing but it's decent. And sometimes I just want decent at a decent price.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’ve never understood the point of Deliveroo / Uber Eats because it seems substantially more expensive than eating in as well as a limited menu. I have used Justeat as that tends to be smaller independent takeaways but less imposing than calling up to place an order.

There are two points to it.

One of them is that you tap your phone about 3 times and your food shows up. The other one is that you know exactly when it's going to.

The menu depends on who's put it on there, the places I've ordered from have done a full menu.

 

[3rd rail land]

Working from home may well be affecting the likes of Subway, Costa and the like (and also local sandwich outlets), but I doubt that it is affecting the chain restaurants much. How many people go to a restaurant in their lunch break these days, even if working away from home? My company would pay for an evening meal, but certainly not a full mid-day meal.

Very true. Even if one was able to put the cost of lunch on expenses they often won't have the time to dine in at a restaurant at lunchtime. When I am away on a business trip, quite rare for me, I prefer to get the work done and finish earlier rather than have a long lunch break.

 

[Bantamzen]

Completely agree, especially with your last sentence - it isn’t all about cost. Give me a decent independent any day. Unfortunately we don’t do eating out very well in the UK, it’s done far better (and more cheaply) in Europe.

Somewhere like Goodman (technically a chain as they have three branches!) can be done less expensively if you don’t go silly with the wine. A large fillet steak is £50, so it’s never going to be a cheap meal, but the slick, polished experience justifies it for an occasional blow out.

I’d argue the places they really rip people off are your standard chains. Miller & Carter is a good example. I’ll never go back there because when I order a fillet steak I don’t expect to be served a grey hunk of fat, followed by an argument about with a spotty 18yo about why I’m not going to pay £30 for it. Cafe Rouge is another terrible, terrible chain restaurant where you’ll be charged £15 for a main, and you’ll receive service with a snarl.

One the my most divine meals I have ever had was a lamb stifado at a small restaurant in Ktima Paphos on the island of Cyprus. It was utterly, utterly incredible and rushed me the cost of a whopping 9 Euros. To this day (ten years on) I can still taste it, just an incredibly simple but completely flavoursome dish that literally blew me away.

I've never understood why people will willingly pay hundreds, sometimes even thousands of pounds for meals when places around the Mediterranean, and even here in Blighty can offer fantastic meals for a fraction of the cost. Maybe as one Greek bloke once said to me, in England we value money more than we value living. So maybe people paying hundreds of pounds for a steak are really enjoying the fact that they can, rather than the steak itself?

 

[cactustwirly]

There are two points to it.

One of them is that you tap your phone about 3 times and your food shows up. The other one is that you know exactly when it's going to.

The menu depends on who's put it on there, the places I've ordered from have done a full menu.

But you pay through the roof for it, for a sweaty teenager on a bike to turn up ages later, who then can't find where you live.
Easier and cheaper to collect it yourself.

These places are a bit like Uber, using "self employed" so they can treat their staff like slaves and pay them peanuts.