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Are chain restaurants and shops failing because of COVID, or are they just not very good?

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43066

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As an aside, I would be sad to see the back of Pizza Express; it is without a doubt in my mind the nicest food one can buy. Shame the service is so lacklustre.

You haven’t eaten out much, I’m guessing?!

EDIT: No disrespect intended. But if you think pizza express is eating out, there’s a whole world of restaurants out there. In many cases cheaper than chain restaurants.

Do a steak at Goodman. It isn’t cheap. Circa £300 for a meal for two plus a bottle of red. Once you’ve done it, you won’t go elsewhere for steak.

Their produce is *SUBLIME*
 
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Mojo

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You haven’t eaten out much, I’m guessing?!

EDIT: No disrespect intended. But if you think pizza express is eating out, there’s a whole world of restaurants out there. In many cases cheaper than chain restaurants.

Do a steak at Goodman. It isn’t cheap. Circa £300 for a meal for two plus a bottle of red. Once you’ve done it, you won’t go elsewhere for steak.
I’d rather spend my money on a holiday or something for the house rather than wasting it on that.

Pizza Express is very tasty and very good value. With Tastecard never pay more than £15 a head for three courses and drinks, and I have the food I want and enjoy rather than something expensive that I have to pretend is enjoyable.
 

43066

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I’d rather spend my money on a holiday or something for the house rather than wasting it on that.

Pizza Express is very tasty and very good value. With Tastecard never pay more than £15 a head for three courses and drinks, and I have the food I want and enjoy rather than anything else.

It’s not the best food money can buy though! Not by a long chalk.

Eat out out to help out is working wonders.

The ability to drop £300 on decent steak is what life is all about at times. It’s what keeps us human in this chastened reality .

EDIT: Tastecard is something I’ve plumbed the absolute depths of.
 

dctraindriver

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You haven’t eaten out much, I’m guessing?!

EDIT: No disrespect intended. But if you think pizza express is eating out, there’s a whole world of restaurants out there. In many cases cheaper than chain restaurants.

Do a steak at Goodman. It isn’t cheap. Circa £300 for a meal for two plus a bottle of red. Once you’ve done it, you won’t go elsewhere for steak.

Their produce is *SUBLIME*
We’ve been to the Goodman, overpriced for what it is. Many better places to eat for half that for two of you. I’m more inclined to use my local independents than chains, no matter what price point or USP they’re coming up with.
 

LAX54

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You haven’t eaten out much, I’m guessing?!

EDIT: No disrespect intended. But if you think pizza express is eating out, there’s a whole world of restaurants out there. In many cases cheaper than chain restaurants.

Do a steak at Goodman. It isn’t cheap. Circa £300 for a meal for two plus a bottle of red. Once you’ve done it, you won’t go elsewhere for steak.

Their produce is *SUBLIME*

£300 for 2 ? !
 

Bletchleyite

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From https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-current-situation.206877/page-3#post-4733078

In my part of the world that bill would be followed with a loud "HOW MUCH!!??!!".... :lol:

I wonder if there's anything that expensive in posh 'Arrigut, and if the standard Yorkshire saying is used before getting out the Coutts black card? :D

But yes, the chain restaurants are in my view just dying because they're rubbish, just like the chain stores, and this had already started - those survived because there wasn't much of an alternative in the 90s. If you think Pizzaexpress is the height of eating out (and I'll give you it's not the worst chain restaurant - I'd put the likes of TGIs into that bracket because they basically serve the same sort of food as Spoons at 3 times the price) you really need to try some local independent places.
 

Yew

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Chain restaurants are good when you're visiting another place, and don't want to risk somewhere with horrible food, poor hygiene and high prices. However, when you're staying in your own town; you know more independent local places, and hence will visit them.
 

Bletchleyite

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Chain restaurants are good when you're visiting another place, and don't want to risk somewhere with horrible food, poor hygiene and high prices. However, when you're staying in your own town; you know more independent local places, and hence will visit them.

That is true, and I've certainly used them in that sort of context and will do again. However, while you can't order a meal out off Amazon (though you can of course order a takeaway from Deliveroo or whatever, and I've now stayed at a couple of small hotels which instead of offering their own room service encourage you to do exactly that and might even provide plates etc) what you can do these days is spend 2 minutes on your phone Googling restaurants and reading reviews, so you can have a much better idea about independents than you used to and so at least I am more likely to use them in an unknown place than I was.

This is one of the great paradoxes of the Internet - it obviously makes things easier for very big business (e.g. Amazon), but it also makes things easier for the very small guy, too (I could set up a business with worldwide reach and launch it today if I wanted, basically). The big loser is sat there in the middle - the medium-size, mediocre chain business that people used to default to because it was easier - the TGIs, the Pizza Hut/Pizzaexpress etc, or in shopping terms the Burton's/Topman, Mothercare, Dixons etc (and goodness knows how WH Smugg's reading room and voucher shop stays in business) - and now they aren't doing because it's easier to get something better and cheaper, those businesses are failing.
 

thejuggler

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Chain restaurants are there to pay debts, not serve excellent food.

Pizzaexpress ended up with a debt of over £1bn by constant takeovers and owners borrowing against the future income.
 

Yew

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The big loser is sat there in the middle - the medium-size, mediocre chain business that people used to default to because it was easier - the TGIs, the Pizza Hut/Pizzaexpress etc,

Often though, they fall in a reasonable space in terms of value/quality, and usualy have aggressively priced deals to help this even more (During the week particuarly)
 

Bletchleyite

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Often though, they fall in a reasonable space in terms of value/quality, and usualy have aggressively priced deals to help this even more (During the week particuarly)

Pizza Hut does most of its business with families, where it's something inoffensive that the kids like but is a bit better than just going to Maccies (kids are not adventurous with food). Pizzaexpress doesn't really aim there, it aims at young adults who are deserting it.
 

yorksrob

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I like many chain restaurants. Went to a pizza hut just before lockdown and found it to be perfectly good food at a reasonable price.
 

Yew

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Pizza Hut does most of its business with families, where it's something inoffensive that the kids like but is a bit better than just going to Maccies (kids are not adventurous with food). Pizzaexpress doesn't really aim there, it aims at young adults who are deserting it.
I feel that their low-quality bake at home pizzas are something to do with that.
 

Bantamzen

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That is true, and I've certainly used them in that sort of context and will do again. However, while you can't order a meal out off Amazon (though you can of course order a takeaway from Deliveroo or whatever, and I've now stayed at a couple of small hotels which instead of offering their own room service encourage you to do exactly that and might even provide plates etc) what you can do these days is spend 2 minutes on your phone Googling restaurants and reading reviews, so you can have a much better idea about independents than you used to and so at least I am more likely to use them in an unknown place than I was.

This is one of the great paradoxes of the Internet - it obviously makes things easier for very big business (e.g. Amazon), but it also makes things easier for the very small guy, too (I could set up a business with worldwide reach and launch it today if I wanted, basically). The big loser is sat there in the middle - the medium-size, mediocre chain business that people used to default to because it was easier - the TGIs, the Pizza Hut/Pizzaexpress etc, or in shopping terms the Burton's/Topman, Mothercare, Dixons etc (and goodness knows how WH Smugg's reading room and voucher shop stays in business) - and now they aren't doing because it's easier to get something better and cheaper, those businesses are failing.

There are some very expensive restaurants up here, not that my wage can stretch to them. By the way, I didn't mention Pizza Express, I have been occasionally but there are far better options in my area.
 

tbtc

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I think there's a dollop of wishful thinking here.

Sure, nobody is going to argue against "small independent places are better than mass produced chains" but the problems with the restaurants discussed is more about the debts dumped on them by Private Equity, the way that such chains have flooded the market in the last decade and the huge decline of the casual dining/leisure market that they based their business plans around.

I don't think that the Great British Public are eschewing McDonalds/ Dominoes/ Aldi/ Wetherspoons (e.g. if they felt that "local independent" burgers / pizzas / supermarkets/ pubs are so much better) - whilst I'm sure a lot of people would like to believe that we are all going to swap "chains" for cuddly friendly indie places, this is more just about the flood of middle market restaurants that have saturated the country over the past decade - some "local" resturants are failing too, but of course they don't get the same attention/ national headlines because they fail in their dribs and drabs - but five hundred jobs to go at a nationwide chain makes news - and we increasingly pick and choose the news that we want to hear these days, which is why I'm sure that the people who want to believe there's a trend beyond restaurants will find something to satisfy their taste in headlines.
 

Iskra

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The virus has just accentuated trends that were already in motion.

People are less and less willing to pay high prices for bland, ordinary food. For high prices, it's got to be cool, individual etc so you can post pictures of it on your social media, and not something that everyone else can easily do, or that makes it a worthless experience in that regard. The middle is being decimated in the restaurant market. These restaurant groups just seem to be a bit of a trend, and eventually they go out of fashion.
 

Ianno87

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The virus has just accentuated trends that were already in motion.

People are less and less willing to pay high prices for bland, ordinary food. For high prices, it's got to be cool, individual etc so you can post pictures of it on your social media, and not something that everyone else can easily do, or that makes it a worthless experience in that regard. The middle is being decimated in the restaurant market. These restaurant groups just seem to be a bit of a trend, and eventually they go out of fashion.

The "lets go out because we can't be bothered to cook" market seems to be moving towards Just East etc, plus the "Dine in" deals the supermarkets do (Main+Side+Drink+Dessert for £10 or whatever).

The likes of PizEx, unless you have a voucher deal, have started to become more expensive with only a "passable" experience in the process.
 

adc82140

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I think that the demise of the chain high street has been on the cards for a while. Expensive parking, poor choice, more expensive etc. Covid has just accelerated it.

Out of town will survive.
 

Iskra

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The "lets go out because we can't be bothered to cook" market seems to be moving towards Just East etc, plus the "Dine in" deals the supermarkets do (Main+Side+Drink+Dessert for £10 or whatever).

The likes of PizEx, unless you have a voucher deal, have started to become more expensive with only a "passable" experience in the process.

I agree, I think people have realised during lockdown that it’s so much cheaper doing that, because you don’t pay ludicrous prices for drinks like you do when you’re eating out.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think that the demise of the chain high street has been on the cards for a while. Expensive parking, poor choice, more expensive etc. Covid has just accelerated it.

Out of town will survive.

I'm not sure it will...most TGI's for example are out of town and they are failing because they are frankly complete rubbish.
 

Iskra

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I'm not sure it will...most TGI's for example are out of town and they are failing because they are frankly complete rubbish.

Are TGI’s failing? They strike me as doing quite well compared to the rest. I’m going to one on Tuesday.

Remember the Eat Out to Help Out Scheme is currently distorting footfall significantly. I don’t think you can come to too many conclusions until we return to more normal market conditions in September.
 

Ianno87

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Are TGI’s failing? They strike me as doing quite well compared to the rest. I’m going to one on Tuesday.

Remember the Eat Out to Help Out Scheme is currently distorting footfall significantly. I don’t think you can come to too many conclusions until we return to more normal market conditions in September.

TGIs I find the food to be a bit 'plastic-y' but in my view is a bit more 'fun' - i.e. there's usually loud conversations and background music.

I find it a better place to take my kids, as if they're a bit loud they're much less likely to piss off other tables.
 

jfollows

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For me, chain restaurants embed the seeds of their own demise.

They exist, necessarily, built on something that works but which gets replicated. Same-ness is their stock in trade.

The first time I visit one of them, they're new and interesting to me.

The second time I visit one of them, I may be enticed into a different branch of the same chain because I enjoyed my first experience.

The third time it starts to become a bit boring, and I start to notice the faults and omissions rather than the good points.

In the long run, a local restaurant which isn't part of a chain has a longer life and is a place I'm more likely to visit repeatedly.

I don't think any of this is Covid-19 related or caused.
 

AM9

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The "lets go out because we can't be bothered to cook" market seems to be moving towards Just East etc, plus the "Dine in" deals the supermarkets do (Main+Side+Drink+Dessert for £10 or whatever).

The likes of PizEx, unless you have a voucher deal, have started to become more expensive with only a "passable" experience in the process.
Pizza Express were always very selective in where they open, looking for a minimum level of higher socioeconomic groups. It seems that since they were taken over by a Chinese private equity operation in 2014, they have lowered the bar for opening in new locations. Personally, I find their offereing good value and their bake at home pizzas pretty good if cooked properly. I first started on pizzas in the '80s whilst in the US on business, (Pizza Hut), but although they were the market leader in the UK, (with PizzaLand being a poor second, their products just became too gimmicky and poor quality. As far as the plethora of run of the mill pizza takeaways go, (Domino's, Papa John et al, I wouldn't eat them even if they were free.
Some of the Dine In bundles are just a more convenient (and usually a cheaper) way to buy 'chill bake' food, but often the limited ranges offered by supermarkets don't really cut it. I find the Charlie Bigham range of dishes quite good, some of them difficult to tell from home prepared fresh meals, - but the sm ell of burning wood can be irritating sometimes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

... I don't think any of this is Covid-19 related or caused.
I agree absolutely with that. I can accept that many businesses want to blame COVID-19 for all their ills, but just like M&S, Debenhams, John Lewis, the writing has been on the wall for a few years now. Those that haven't invested in good quality online operations will possible disappear altogether, so it is pointless customers complaining when they have been the main cause of the shift in retail styles.
 
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Ken H

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many businesses sold their premises to get the cash, then rent them back.
So when trade falls a little, they are a high overhead, low variable cost business, and the turnover suddenly isnt enough to pay the bills.
Which is why Debenhams are in trouble.
Businesses that own their own buildings will be in a better place to survive a downturn.
 

jfollows

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Pizza Express is the closest restaurant to my house, I can walk there in five minutes.

There's nothing wrong with it, and it makes something I can't make at home. I've probably been there once in the last two years, and had takeaway a couple of times.

I guess its modus vivendi is that it becomes the restaurant of choice for pizza to enough people, in a sense that's what it is to me, it's just that I generally prefer to cook my own food or - if I go out - to eat something else.

For example - a non-chain Italian restaurant in Wilmslow which is the last restaurant I went to at the end of February pre-Covid and which I'll use by choice again if it's still there.
 

dctraindriver

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I think they’re done now. I’ll go to a Wagamama occasionally and used to go to the likes of Ask, Nando’s, GBK, Cotes etc but I do prefer the local independent eateries and seek them out. Trip Advisor gives some good recommendations but some of the reviews, they read like food critics :)
 

Ianno87

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I think they’re done now. I’ll go to a Wagamama occasionally and used to go to the likes of Ask, Nando’s, GBK, Cotes etc but I do prefer the local independent eateries and seek them out. Trip Advisor gives some good recommendations but some of the reviews, they read like food critics :)

Wagamama is great, but "feels" much more expensive than a few years back. Good for an informal dining experience, but increasinglr restaurant prices.
 
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