How do some train guards get away with not checking/charging for the tickets ?

[Justin Smith]

I'm on a Rail Rover at the moment (a combined East Midlands and Heart of England) and I have to say I'm surprised at how often the guard never comes round to check the tickets and/or sell a ticket in the first place !
Every time this happens, including on lines where the train is stopping at unstaffed stations (so the passengers can't have a ticket) I wonder why the guard is just staying in his cab.
Quite apart from anything else, when the guard returns his ticket machine at the end of the day, aren't questions asked as to why so few tickets have been issued ? ! ?

It's ironic isn't it, sometimes you get bleedin' jobsworth guards sticking to the letter of the rules to extract another few quid from you* (and p**s you off) and at other times they're not bothered about collecting anything at all !

* Best example was when I bought an "any route" ticket (at £14) from Sheffield to Todmorden, then walked a round trip ending at Walsden, a guard insisted on charging me 80p because my ticket was only to Todmorden ! I didn't mind too much because I wanted the ticket for my collection, but I thought it a bit petty to be frank.
Worse is when some guards insist on charging you a full price peak ticket when the train leaves at 08.59.

 

[rail-britain]

It can often depend on the service and relevant staffing level

Some services should have a guard and ticket examiner
As such, then the guard will often not do both jobs!
The guard may be on a duty they were not even supposed to be on, ie covering and thus the service is at least running

Equally, on some services the guard cannot be bothered having to either walk to the nearest door controls panel, thus just stays at the back cab

Finally, the guard may be under instruction not to perform revenue duties, either due to recent "public confrontation policy" or simply the ticket issue terminal has failed or run out of tickets!

 

[MCR247]

I find that guards are less likely to come round checking tickets when it is a train that you have to be in the cab/at the back to open doors and one that stops very frequently

 

[175001]

As a guard myself out of Manchester Victoria, it is very hard for us to go out every time to check tickets, as out services stop on average every 3 minutes!! But I do try my best to get through and sell as many as I can, IF I CAN PHYSICALLY DO SO that is :roll:

But may I remind you, our prime duty is not revenue, but safety, but I do go round as much as I can.

Of course, there are instances where i'm unable to go out, like this morning when I was trying to keep our 156 going from Southport back to Vic, or won't risk my life for a Cheap Evening Return, like last Saturday night.........

 

[MCR247]

Of course, there are instances where i'm unable to go out, like this morning when I was trying to keep our 156 going from Southport back to Vic, or won't risk my life for a Cheap Evening Return, like last Saturday night.........

hock: What do you mean?

 

[mumrar]

Best example was when I bought an "any route" ticket (at £14) from Sheffield to Todmorden, then walked a round trip ending at Walsden, a guard insisted on charging me 80p because my ticket was only to Todmorden ! I didn't mind too much because I wanted the ticket for my collection, but I thought it a bit petty to be frank.
Worse is when some guards insist on charging you a full price peak ticket when the train leaves at 08.59, t*****s.

So you wonder why some guards don't do a part of their jobs, but then when they do, you're annoyed when they do it properly? Very strange. There are a multitude of reasons a guard can't come through, faulty revenue equipment, having to deal with a fault on the train - reporting it and filling in reports. Arranging assistance for passengers whom require it.

However, as a guard myself, I can assure you there are a few people who do habitually not do tickets. But that notwithstanding, when a guard does come through, if a ticket isn't valid till 09:00 then it isn't valid at 08:59. Complicated though our ticket conditions are, they are black and white for a reason and practically no grey exists at all.

 

[rail-britain]

Ironically, many SPT services used to be plagued with non-paying customers
One ticket examiner simply wasn't enough
Even when a fare was asked for, the response may not just be no!

On many low level services this was increased to one ticket examiner travelling in each coach
Where a customer did refuse, it was much easier to "force" home the issue and avoid violent confrontation
However with much more CCTV coverage this policy has been vastly relaxed recently

However, when travelling last year I managed to travel on some services without having my ticket checked

Even now there are some services where it is quite obvious the guard is not going to appear!
Equally, there are many services where a guard is not required (ie DOO)
Quite often a ticket examiner is not available either, so the service leaves with a driver only
This then brings us into the realm of the ongoing ScotRail dispute...

 

[Bittern]

Over the last year, I often used the 17:37 Glasgow Central - Paisley Canal, and despite if it was formed of one or two 156s, it was always mobbed. The guard very rarely appeared to check/sell tickets. In fact, the only time I recall that was when some guy was leaning on the door to the guard's cab and when she opened the door, the guy nearly fell. Other than that, the guards only appeared to open/close doors.

 

[rail-britain]

Over the last year, I often used the 17:37 Glasgow Central - Paisley Canal

Tickets should be checked at the platform entrance?
Equally, this service should also have a ticket examiner, but more than likely due to regular overcrowding is probably swapped to the East Kilbride / Kilmarnock due to higher revenue

However, no doubt the guard makes some effort to sell tickets on the way back to Glasgow Central

 

[Justin Smith]

So you wonder why some guards don't do a part of their jobs, but then when they do, you're annoyed when they do it properly? Very strange. There are a multitude of reasons a guard can't come through, faulty revenue equipment, having to deal with a fault on the train - reporting it and filling in reports. Arranging assistance for passengers whom require it.

However, as a guard myself, I can assure you there are a few people who do habitually not do tickets. But that notwithstanding, when a guard does come through, if a ticket isn't valid till 09:00 then it isn't valid at 08:59. Complicated though our ticket conditions are, they are black and white for a reason and practically no grey exists at all.

Err........ ! ? !
How can there be a significant number of guards who don't check/sell tickets at all, but also, there's no grey area when it comes to tickets ? ! ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Tickets should be checked at the platform entrance?

As a general rule I don't agree with that policy at all, and not just because EMT are trying to introduce ticket barriers on the over bridge at Sheffield station, which they've no right to do actually, it was partly built with public money as an access route from the tram stop to the city centre, and, ironically, the station, as in the station ticket office at the front.
But I'm digressing.
It's penny pinching, inefficient and just plain sloppy of the TOCs to rely on ticket barriers. Quite apart from anything else dishonest passengers can just buy a ticket from the nearest station rather than London where they've actually come from... But also in the peaks passengers can get on at unstaffed stations, no guard on the train sells them a ticket then they have to get in a huge Q to buy a ticket before exiting the station. That's not right. the TOCs should have more respect for their passengers than to value their time and stress levels as being inconsequential.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Over the last year, I often used the 17:37 Glasgow Central - Paisley Canal, and despite if it was formed of one or two 156s, it was always mobbed. The guard very rarely appeared to check/sell tickets. In fact, the only time I recall that was when some guy was leaning on the door to the guard's cab and when she opened the door, the guy nearly fell. Other than that, the guards only appeared to open/close doors.

I haver to say that in my experience the female guards tend to be more conscientious in this regard (and some others.....) than the men !

 

[CarterUSM]

Tickets should be checked at the platform entrance?
Equally, this service should also have a ticket examiner, but more than likely due to regular overcrowding is probably swapped to the East Kilbride / Kilmarnock due to higher revenue

However, no doubt the guard makes some effort to sell tickets on the way back to Glasgow Central

There has never been a booked Ticket Examiner on this service, however the 1637 service gets a booked assist. A check of tickets should be carried out regardless of barriers in place, though if the service is too busy or overcrowded then it is acceptable not to.

 

[anthony263]

I find that guards are less likely to come round checking tickets when it is a train that you have to be in the cab/at the back to open doors and one that stops very frequently

I have found that when class 175's started appearing on the Cardiff - Swansea swanline services

 

[rail-britain]

It's penny pinching, inefficient and just plain sloppy of the TOCs to rely on ticket barriers. Quite apart from anything else dishonest passengers can just buy a ticket from the nearest station rather than London where they've actually come from...

When I travelled on the SPT (or more correctly GG) network in the 1980s almost all the stations had barriers and were manned
However some stations were still "open" or unmanned, and equally ticket sales were open to abuse
Creating the "Open Station Network" was the worst thing to happen on the network

Ironic that we have come full circle and the TOCs are actively putting barriers back into main stations

Equally, it is never going to be perfect
If a passenger knows they can travel to the first station, thus avoiding the "full fare" then there is the risk they may do so
However, there is equally the risk they may be caught, the cost to them being at least one day in court plus £15 court costs (in England)

 

[455driver]

and I have to say I'm surprised at how often the guard never comes round to check the tickets and/or sell a ticket in the first place !

Every time this happens, including on lines where the train is stopping at unstaffed stations (so the passengers can't have a ticket) I wonder why the guard is just staying in his cab.

So you are complaining when guards dont check tickets.

It's ironic isn't it, sometimes you get bleedin' jobsworth guards sticking to the letter of the rules to extract another few quid from you* (and p**s you off)
Worse is when some guards insist on charging you a full price peak ticket when the train leaves at 08.59, t*****s.

And also complaining when they DO check tickets and ensure you have the right ticket for your journey.

Another consistant thread from you where the staff cant win!
Especially like the "jobsworth" getting in there again, yawn :roll:

 

[MCR247]

So you are complaining when guards dont check tickets.



And also complaining when they DO check tickets and ensure you have the right ticket for your journey.

Another consistant thread from you where the staff cant win!
Especially like the "jobsworth" getting in there again, yawn :roll:

Haha. Justin how are you getting on with 222s?

 

[Pumbaa]

They get away because they're travelling in 390s, and can't see out of the windows. They're too busy moaning that the crew seats don't line up perfectly with the windows and are thus restricted from doing anything else.

 

[TDK]

I'm on a Rail Rover at the moment (a combined East Midlands and Heart of England) and I have to say I'm surprised at how often the guard never comes round to check the tickets and/or sell a ticket in the first place !
Every time this happens, including on lines where the train is stopping at unstaffed stations (so the passengers can't have a ticket) I wonder why the guard is just staying in his cab.
Quite apart from anything else, when the guard returns his ticket machine at the end of the day, aren't questions asked as to why so few tickets have been issued ? ! ?

It's ironic isn't it, sometimes you get bleedin' jobsworth guards sticking to the letter of the rules to extract another few quid from you* (and p**s you off) and at other times they're not bothered about collecting anything at all !

* Best example was when I bought an "any route" ticket (at £14) from Sheffield to Todmorden, then walked a round trip ending at Walsden, a guard insisted on charging me 80p because my ticket was only to Todmorden ! I didn't mind too much because I wanted the ticket for my collection, but I thought it a bit petty to be frank.
Worse is when some guards insist on charging you a full price peak ticket when the train leaves at 08.59, t*****s.

Contradictory post Justin, and for you to call a gaurd a t***** for doing their job correctly is just pathetic. The reason why guard do not look at tickets on yout train is probably to avoid you pal.

 

[Simon Poole]

I've notced that conductors/Guards don't come out on the Chase Line, some of the London to Crewe Trains and don't get me started on the Cross City Line

sometimes on the Chase Line there's contuctors who board the train at Walsall and they sit in a seat, one in an Class 153 and one in the Class 170, and when the trains stops and starts, they get out of their seat and give you an ticket.

 

[WL113]

To be fair, on a packed train the guard/TTI just can't get through. The 153/170 combinations must be tricky units to work with.

There is certainly one bloke on the Chase Line who does collect the fares, no one escapes him! One morning he saw two lads run into the toilet to hide from him and his ticket machine. He waited outside the door all the way to New St and collared them when they came out!

Its a pity there are not more like him. Then the line might make some revenue.

 

[lm321412]

I've notced that conductors/Guards don't come out on the Chase Line, some of the London to Crewe Trains and don't get me started on the Cross City Line

sometimes on the Chase Line there's contuctors who board the train at Walsall and they sit in a seat, one in an Class 153 and one in the Class 170, and when the trains stops and starts, they get out of their seat and give you an ticket.

The Cross City line stops every few minutes at least, and since its only possible to open the doors from the rear cab its virtually impossible to check tickets. The only place I have known them come out at is at Alvechurch, which is the unstaffed station along the line. On the other hand, random revenue inspections occur quite frequently too which usually cops one or two fare dodgers

Also, the 153+170 formation has to be one of the hardest sets to work with using one conductor

 

[313103]

I don't think this thread is worth the air time its given, however i will say this:

Why doesnt Railuk forums create a thread for Staff Bashing/Jobsworth staff? Then the likes such as the original OP can have a field day.

Seems to be the current theme at the moment with other posters criticizing RPIs, Drivers and other Guards.

 

[GB]

the TOCs should have more respect for their passengers than to value their time and stress levels as being inconsequential.

hmm, the same respect you seem to show the staff??

 

[CarterUSM]

I don't think this thread is worth the air time its given, however i will say this:

Why doesnt Railuk forums create a thread for Staff Bashing/Jobsworth staff? Then the likes such as the original OP can have a field day.

Seems to be the current theme at the moment with other posters criticizing RPIs, Drivers and other Guards.

Spot on. It's getting a bit long in the tooth now.

 

[Simon Poole]

To be fair, on a packed train the guard/TTI just can't get through. The 153/170 combinations must be tricky units to work with.

There is certainly one bloke on the Chase Line who does collect the fares, no one escapes him! One morning he saw two lads run into the toilet to hide from him and his ticket machine. He waited outside the door all the way to New St and collared them when they came out!

Its a pity there are not more like him. Then the line might make some revenue.

whould this person be an elderly african-american short person who walks with an limp? when i board the train at Rugeley Town (ether to Rugeley Trent Valley or Birmingham) he always comes up to me with his ticket machine, On Monday (26th July 2010) he was on the 1210 service from Rugeley Town to Birmingham (Got off at Walsall) some people were about to leave the train at Hednesford or Cannock without paying the fare, but he walked up towards them just in time and they had to pay the fare

 

[Pumbaa]

I don't think this thread is worth the air time its given, however i will say this:

Why doesnt Railuk forums create a thread for Staff Bashing/Jobsworth staff? Then the likes such as the original OP can have a field day.

Seems to be the current theme at the moment with other posters criticizing RPIs, Drivers and other Guards.

I happen to agree with you on this one, but I would add that some of the criticism that rail staff come in for on here is perfectly justified. Rail staff are not protected from criticism as some of your lesser esteemed colleagues would argue, and you wouldn't expect anything else on a website such as this!

 

[175001]

hock: What do you mean?

What do you mean, What do I mean?

The fact that I was in constant contact with control over our stuck gear box? Or the fact that I had drunken youths on the last Wigan train?

 

[MCR247]

What do you mean risk your life?

 

[175001]

I'm taking about times where working late night trains after 2100 and asking for a ticket only gives me a torrent of abuse. At these times, I ensure that the welfare of other passengers. If you don't believe me, I'll gladly give you my avantix and you can walk down

I've walked down all my trains today giving the passengers of Greater Manchester a smile and a welcome on my 142, and the thank you I get back is well worth it.

 

[222666]

The problem with any printed ticket, is that there is too much information printed on them! Conductors, bus drivers... I think 90% of them will only do a quick scan of dates & places. I have come across a few though, who will make a point of taking their time to actually look at the whole thing.

It comes down to the individual, some like to see where you're going & offer travel advice (changes), others are looking for fare cheats. The latter being very few imo.

Are revenue inspectors & regular train guards two different things?

 

[YorkshireBear]

I can see the point made by a few about guards not being able to get down train in time and open doors. I'm a regular on the services from chapeltown to sheffield. This often occurs and at peak the conductor gets stuck and the train is delayed by a minute as he/she battles her way back up the train to the door controls. This appears to have been solved by having one person on door controls and one just collecting fares. But not on every train. Conductors who always check you know where to change always get a thank you from me it's what customers like to see. Even if they know where to change.