Obviously people should do their jobs properly, that is the definition of "jobsworth". It is neither a term for praise or insult, but the choice of the workers themselves. As far as passengers (or trainspotters) are concerned, we should expect staff to be "jobsworths", doing their jobs properly, but if someone is a fare dodger & has not been challenged, then they just got lucky.
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How do some train guards get away with not checking/charging for the tickets ?
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Wyvern
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A jobsworth may or may not apply the rules, that is irrelevant.
The actual definition is someone who appears to take great delight in pursing their lips and saying "Oo ! That would be more than my job's worth"
The expression comes from Esther Rantzen's "That's Life"
Whether or not in a given situation they might have more sympathetic in their manner or been more liberal in their interpretation depends on the situation and are subjective assessments by each party.
The actual definition is someone who appears to take great delight in pursing their lips and saying "Oo ! That would be more than my job's worth"
The expression comes from Esther Rantzen's "That's Life"
Whether or not in a given situation they might have more sympathetic in their manner or been more liberal in their interpretation depends on the situation and are subjective assessments by each party.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
There you are!online dictionary said:
Did he give any insight in what you were apparantly doing wrong?
Ah OK
. I don't normally look at it that way. I suppose it depends on the job they're doing. I still think it's up to them wether they enjoy doing their job too well, there's a fine line between "jobsworth" & abuse of power, imo.If you take traffic wardens upholding laws that some may find unfair, yeah they may enjoy it but the poor unfortunate on the receiving end has done something against the rules, it's just tough luck, they got caught out. Issue should be taken with those who make the rules, not neccesarily those who enforce them, wether or not they are smiling when they do it
I can say that when I am on or about the railway, working trains from A To B, I would not do a job for which I have not been trained, or pass over a route for which I did not have the required route knowledge.
I am assessed on a regular basis on my rules and regulations by the appropriate inspector.
This includes going into a yard and working to the examining inspectors requirement.
This can include any task for which I maybe called upon to do.
I then have to go on a computer to answer questions taken from the rule books and other documents I should have intimate knowledge of.
Only when I meet the laid down criteria will I be passed as competent to go and do the job.
Therefore if this customs officer wants to question what I do, I know what I am doing, I dont need his advice on working trains.
When I come into the UK from an overseas holiday, I do not tell the pilot how to fly his plane or tell a railway signalman how to work his box.
I do not play at working trains, its not romantic, there are no golden days, it is just a job which has to be performed safely.
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I've just returned from a 7 day North East rover. I would say that my ticket was checked on over 90% of the trains I rode on. Several of the non-checks were explained away by an announcement saying that checks were not being done due to an equipment malfunction. Local services in the Leeds area were particularly affected by this, are the machines that unreliable? The fact that there's a table by the dead end platforms in Leeds selling tickets that is more or less permanently manned would suggest that this is the case.
On my journey home I travelled Leeds - KX without a ticket check. I can't blame the guard, I wouldn't have wanted to do one either. It was East Mids HST vice 91, coach F said D one one side and E on the other, the seat reservations were completely in the wrong seats, no wifi, we got diverted via Lincoln, the contents of another service was crammed into our train at Doncaster and we eventually got to the Cross 84 late.
PS the furthest I have travelled without a ticket check is Bristol - just North of Berwick (via London)
On my journey home I travelled Leeds - KX without a ticket check. I can't blame the guard, I wouldn't have wanted to do one either. It was East Mids HST vice 91, coach F said D one one side and E on the other, the seat reservations were completely in the wrong seats, no wifi, we got diverted via Lincoln, the contents of another service was crammed into our train at Doncaster and we eventually got to the Cross 84 late.
PS the furthest I have travelled without a ticket check is Bristol - just North of Berwick (via London)
shinkansen1966
Member
On a recent East Midlands Trains service from Sheffield back to London, announcements were made that "revenue team" would be coming around for a full ticket inspection. On EMT, is the "revenue teams" primary duty "safety" or "revenue" ?
The guard was probably far too busy dealing with other things than to check tickets, given those circumstances!!
175001
On Moderation
Trust me......they most certainly are!!!
CarterUSM
Established Member
shinkansen1966
Member
Isn't the answer in the question?
And thus confirming that EMT are more interested in making sure I've paid for my journey than in my safety.
But the phrase revenue team could mean that there are additional people on board as well as the guard. I don't know whether EMT employ additional people to work busy trains, but ATW certainly do, they have ATE's on the Valley Lines! I've also been on FGW when a 'Revenue Team' of RPI's has boarded and undertaken a full ticket check, there were four of them woriking the HST, and they were completely independent of the Train Manager.
Isn't the answer in the question?
No, it confirms nothing of the sort. A 'team' by its very definition in this case is more than one person. One person is the guard who is responsible for the train.
Justin Smith
Established Member
Ah OK
If you take traffic wardens upholding laws that some may find unfair, yeah they may enjoy it but the poor unfortunate on the receiving end has done something against the rules, it's just tough luck, they got caught out. Issue should be taken with those who make the rules, not neccesarily those who enforce them, wether or not they are smiling when they do it
To be honest I can understand why a guard would not want to go round checking the tickets if the service was delayed, that's just asking for a load of ear ache from the passengers. I can understand it, but I'm not sure it's right, after all some passengers may want info on rebooked connections etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Don't many trains operate with no guard at all (DOO) ?
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Justin Smith
Established Member
I do wonder what the effect on station usage figures are by the non checking/selling of tickets, for instance, could it ever be responsible for a station`s closure ? Or decision to not increase, or even decrease, services to that station ?
Yeah Walsden was at threat before conductors started selling 80p tickets to Todmorden and people got upset and started calling them tossers on internet forums (if you can't tell I'm being sarcastic).
Ticket sales are not the only method of judging train usage, Train companies, local authorities and PTEs often do on train / station surveys to double check statistics. Therefore has never been a case for saying a line or station been closed / not received the required service because someone hasn't checked tickets.
Ticket sales are not the only method of judging train usage, Train companies, local authorities and PTEs often do on train / station surveys to double check statistics. Therefore has never been a case for saying a line or station been closed / not received the required service because someone hasn't checked tickets.
Justin Smith
Established Member
How do they check station usage then ?
I`d have thought the easiest, and, more importantly for the train companies, the cheapest way, would be to look at the ticket sales. It`d be esay to find out the number of tickets sold to or from a particular station, all it`d take is a few clicks on a computer. This method is less accurate for places with more than one station though !
I cannot believe that ticket sales aren`t a significant factor in determining station usage, probably the most significant. If the tickets aren`t being sold that must affect the research and may well have an effect, at least on the margin.
Utter nonsense. A Guard can quite easily do a full revenue check on his own without compromising safety one bit.
Look at my post again and you will see nowhere did I state that they weren't used for station usage, I stated they weren't the only way. Trains are now being fitted with passenger counters above the doors which monitor passengers boarding and alighting the service, there are surveys done at stations all sorts of things. If we went purely off ticket sales then crush laden services in the PTE area and TFL àrea wouldn't be lengthened as there's a lot of zonal tickets to no particular station
Justin Smith
Established Member
Good point.
Adam_Harrison
Member
I have found that on Grand Central services its rare to see a guard come along on the northbound trains after York. Not once have I had a guard come alonf to buy me a ticket travelling to Sunderland from Hartlepool even in first class!
That's probably end of shift-it us and probably they don't get paid cashing up time (quite a few TOCs give you bare minimum signing off time from the moment you get back to home station) so everything (cashing up/reports) gets done between Hartlepool and Sunderland
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