Air bridges with European countries given "green light"

[Ianno87]

Well, sorry, you saving money isn't more than my health and the economy.



When they get it once. We don't know what'll happen the next time.

Going somewhere with a similar or lesser Covid infection rate to the UK is not introducing a risk - just a larger "bubble". We're not going to Spain, FYI.

*You* may be doing more damage spreading Covid between Bucks and Cumbria (or vice versa)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why won’t herd immunity work? Although antibody levels decrease over time, T-cells play an important role in immunity and seem to, so far, prevent reinfection in the medium term (otherwise we’d have already heard of cases of this by now)

If herd immunity is possible, so's a vaccine. If a vaccine isn't possible at all, nor will be herd immunity. The two are quite tightly linked and are based on the principle of inducing that immunity by either catching it or catching something that looks like it but isn't.

I'm optimistic that it will be possible, which is why I support this approach.

 

[adc82140]

6 months in, and there's not been a single reinfection reported worldwide.

 

[Bletchleyite]

6 months in, and there's not been a single reinfection reported worldwide.

Then a vaccine likely is possible. Which is an even better reason for eliminating and closing borders in the meantime.

 

[Bantamzen]

Close[1] the borders then retighten measures, in specific areas if necessary, to eliminate it. Keep them closed and it can't get back in.

It's precisely what NZ have done. They have clearly done the best of any country.

[1] 14 day quarantine in a Government facility with at least three tests during that time should be adequate.

Yeah, and New Zealand has a slight problem. It can't open it's borders without bringing the virus back in. Effectively what they have done is to imprison themselves.

 

[cactustwirly]

Airlines are dead. We may as well nationalise them and reduce them massively in scope. They will not survive this, there is just no way they can.

The domestic tourist industry can provide tourism for British people who can't now holiday abroad. From what I'm seeing it's really hard to find somewhere to book in the Lakes etc - it is working!

That's your opinion, not shared by many people.
I certainly believe that BA, easyJet and Ryanair are big enough to survive this.

 

[Mag_seven]

What I want to know is what COVID figures from Spain prompted this decision. With the quarantine free list of countries being reviewed weekly (last review was yesterday) something must have happened today to force the decision. There was an epidemiologist from Spain on the BBC tonight claiming that while there have been some hotspots these are limited to certain locations and the bulk of the country is not riskier in terms of infection rates than the UK itself.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Interestingly the FCO is not advising against non-essential travel to the Canaries and Balearics, but travellers still have to self-isolate for 14 days on return.

Oh and FWIW, good ol' Mr Shapps is currently on holiday in Spain, so will have to follow the quarantine procedures. Or will he?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What I want to know is what COVID figures from Spain prompted this decision. There was an epidemiologist from Spain on the BBC tonight claiming that while there have been some hotspots these are limited to certain locations and the bulk of the country is not riskier in terms of infection rates than the UK itself.

Hasn't the whole of Catalonia just gone back into full lockdown?

 

[Reliablebeam]

There's been a known problem with Spain for the last two weeks or so. Does no one in the government keep an eye out and try and proactively co-ordinate with holiday companies, airlines and ferry outfits? I also wonder whether they would dare try this on a country with economic clout and potential for retaliation - France would be interesting in this regard given we are linked by air, rail and ferry and were grumpy about the previous 'quarantine' scheme. Interesting thought - I've been wondering whether tourist reliant economies might be inclined to mess with their testing figures ??

I think a holiday anywhere at the minute, whether abroad or a staycation, sounds like a miserable experience. Certainly, my own day trips have been a very mixed bag of masks, forlornness, and woe, but I do my bit I guess. I am tempted to take a foreign holiday, mainly as I have burning resentment of being told to have a 'staycation' by the man who was on holiday in Mustique as all this was kicking off. It's also not beyond the bounds of reason you might get caught up in some corona-action within the UK - a bad outbreak in some of our big tourist areas could be devastating given the demographics of these areas. I might actually be stymied in going anywhere by the fact my employer is ramping up to bring us back in during august and september...

 

[Mag_seven]

Hasn't the whole of Catalonia just gone back into full lockdown?

No - they have just closed the nightlife down for two weeks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No - they have just closed the nightlife down for two weeks.

I sit corrected

 

[adc82140]

Hasn't the whole of Catalonia just gone back into full lockdown?

No. They are now at the same level as we are. They had reopened nightclubs etc. and have now closed them again.

Edit- wot Mag seven said!

 

[brad465]

Seeing reports Grant Shapps is on holiday in Spain, so will have to quarantine on his return.

 

[Chester1]

Seeing reports Grant Shapps is on holiday in Spain, so will have to quarantine on his return.

Which they should publicise to encourage people to not try to break quarantine.

 

[Silverlinky]

What I want to know is what COVID figures from Spain prompted this decision. With the quarantine free list of countries being reviewed weekly (last review was yesterday) something must have happened today to force the decision. There was an epidemiologist from Spain on the BBC tonight claiming that while there have been some hotspots these are limited to certain locations and the bulk of the country is not riskier in terms of infection rates than the UK itself.

Just the raw case numbers indicate that the number of new cases was consistent in the 100-300 range at the beginning of June, rising to the 600's by the middle of July and now rising to over 2000 new cases per day. July 23rd figure was 2,615 new cases, a number not seen since early May.

 

[Yew]

I was being sarcastic.

My point was that pretty much no international travel is necessary.

No food other than gruel and water is necessary, but it's still not a world that I'd like to live in

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Surely all you need to do if you are returning from Spain is to be allowed to register for a test and if negative you don't have to quarantine for 14 days?

Ignoring questions about the efficacy of tests, the issue is that you could be infected on the plane back, and it would then take several days for you to get to the stage where a test would pick up your infection.

Not to mention that of course the government would prefer to expend what is still a limited resource in terms of tests, on testing people that "need" it (i.e. have symptoms or are in a hotspot of cases).

The risk of being infected on the flight back represents only part of the risk of having people enter from places like Spain, but clearly the government is in no mood to increase infections here through preventable causes.

There are many things the government has royally screwed up throughout the pandemic, not least including quarantine initially being blanket from all countries. I think it is disappointing that they have made this decision without warning, and without the foreshadowing that has preceded other changes. And it could definitely do with being more specific to the parts of Spain that have high infection rates.

But I don't think it is the worst decision they have made.

 

[Chester1]

Ignoring questions about the efficacy of tests, the issue is that you could be infected on the plane back, and it would then take several days for you to get to the stage where a test would pick up your infection.

Not to mention that of course the government would prefer to expend what is still a limited resource in terms of tests, on testing people that "need" it (i.e. have symptoms or are in a hotspot of cases).

The risk of being infected on the flight back represents only part of the risk of having people enter from places like Spain, but clearly the government is in no mood to increase infections here through preventable causes.

There are many things the government has royally screwed up throughout the pandemic, not least including quarantine initially being blanket from all countries. I think it is disappointing that they have made this decision without warning, and without the foreshadowing that has preceded other changes. And it could definitely do with being more specific to the parts of Spain that have high infection rates.

But I don't think it is the worst decision they have made.

Testing arrivals to provide exemptions from quarantine would be useful for reducing risk but not eliminating it. I reckon it's not being used in this situation because the risk of people testing negative but incubating the virus during a surge in cases is too high.

 

[bramling]

And a lot of people who've worked hard in trying circumstances for months being denied a holiday, as UK hospitality simply does not have the necessary capacity (unless you've got the money to pay high prices)

Can also add that since May the U.K. weather has been rather indifferent outside of the south-east, especially in the north west. U.K. holidays have always required a special sort of devotion and some level of flexibility to weather forecasts. If the current summer 2020 trends continue, and bear in mind most Augusts this century have been rather autumnal, this could put a lot of people off in the future, with some deciding “never again”.

I can see it’s a tricky issue though. I can see that some people feel drained and need something, but equally it is a perfectly fair point that we can’t repeat February where we imported shed loads of cases from places like Italy and Spain. Quarantine just doesn’t seem viable either. No easy answers to this one.

 

[bramling]

There's been a known problem with Spain for the last two weeks or so. Does no one in the government keep an eye out and try and proactively co-ordinate with holiday companies, airlines and ferry outfits? I also wonder whether they would dare try this on a country with economic clout and potential for retaliation - France would be interesting in this regard given we are linked by air, rail and ferry and were grumpy about the previous 'quarantine' scheme. Interesting thought - I've been wondering whether tourist reliant economies might be inclined to mess with their testing figures ??

I think a holiday anywhere at the minute, whether abroad or a staycation, sounds like a miserable experience. Certainly, my own day trips have been a very mixed bag of masks, forlornness, and woe, but I do my bit I guess. I am tempted to take a foreign holiday, mainly as I have burning resentment of being told to have a 'staycation' by the man who was on holiday in Mustique as all this was kicking off. It's also not beyond the bounds of reason you might get caught up in some corona-action within the UK - a bad outbreak in some of our big tourist areas could be devastating given the demographics of these areas. I might actually be stymied in going anywhere by the fact my employer is ramping up to bring us back in during august and september...

We cancelled our long-planned July U.K. holiday simply as we judged everything is still that little bit too up in the air still to have a relaxing time doing what we had planned. The lacklustre weather also played a part in that decision.

Looking at today’s Snowdonia antics this only reminds me why we called it off. The bizarre thing about today in Snowdonia was the weather was clearly pretty rotten, even at the bottom of Snowdon, so goodness knows what some of these people were thinking. Despite being a comparatively benign mountain it still needs to be treated with respect in all but the absolute finest of weather.

No doubt we’ll see more of all this as the issues with foreign holidays continue to play out.

 

[Bantamzen]

Ignoring questions about the efficacy of tests, the issue is that you could be infected on the plane back, and it would then take several days for you to get to the stage where a test would pick up your infection.

Not to mention that of course the government would prefer to expend what is still a limited resource in terms of tests, on testing people that "need" it (i.e. have symptoms or are in a hotspot of cases).

The risk of being infected on the flight back represents only part of the risk of having people enter from places like Spain, but clearly the government is in no mood to increase infections here through preventable causes.

There are many things the government has royally screwed up throughout the pandemic, not least including quarantine initially being blanket from all countries. I think it is disappointing that they have made this decision without warning, and without the foreshadowing that has preceded other changes. And it could definitely do with being more specific to the parts of Spain that have high infection rates.

But I don't think it is the worst decision they have made.

The airplane is almost certainly not going to be the place you pick the virus up. Notwithstanding the fact that masks are pretty much a requirement to fly at the moment, but the air inside an aircraft is constantly filtered through HEPA filters and is mixed with fresh air from the outside. This means in effect that the air is completely replaced inside the cabin on average every 2 yo 3 minutes.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The airplane is almost certainly not going to be the place you pick the virus up. Notwithstanding the fact that masks are pretty much a requirement to fly at the moment, but the air inside an aircraft is constantly filtered through HEPA filters and is mixed with fresh air from the outside. This means in effect that the air is completely replaced inside the cabin on average every 2 yo 3 minutes.

This is true, but when you are sitting right next to people who aren't in your household for hours on end, masks make precious little difference in terms of whether you'll get anything they have.

It's clearly not an existential risk but it is one the government isn't prepared to let the country undergo, and I can kinda see where they're coming from on this one.

 

[Howardh]

I'he two holidays to Ibiza/Formentera back-to-back; end Sept and return and back mid-Oct. So I would be out again before the 14-day quarantine is completed. On the positive side it's two months away so time for the situation to improve and back-to-normal; but I feel foolish for booking in the first place, and that's it as far as I'm concerned for at least 12 months. Also now thoroughly depresed again.

If millions feel like me, and I bet they do, because of the uncertainty and getting your money back (even though the Balearics is not on the no-travel list, the 14 day quarantine will put many off travelling) then we can wave the airline industry goodbye. And how will airports cope with a tiny fraction going through compared to normal?

 

[adc82140]

I have booked a week in France at the end of September. Let's hope the French border stays open. Fortunately it's to my own property, and I'm driving there, but the place has been unoccupied since the start of March. I dread to think what I might find at the house when I get there.

 

[duncanp]

I'he two holidays to Ibiza/Formentera back-to-back; end Sept and return and back mid-Oct. So I would be out again before the 14-day quarantine is completed. On the positive side it's two months away so time for the situation to improve and back-to-normal; but I feel foolish for booking in the first place, and that's it as far as I'm concerned for at least 12 months. Also now thoroughly depresed again.

If millions feel like me, and I bet they do, because of the uncertainty and getting your money back (even though the Balearics is not on the no-travel list, the 14 day quarantine will put many off travelling) then we can wave the airline industry goodbye. And how will airports cope with a tiny fraction going through compared to normal?

I think there is ample time for the situation to change, and hopefully you will be able to go to Spain as planned.

Our quarantine rules are so full of holes anyway.

I am going to France in September, and if there is quarantine in place on my return, I would still have to get from my arrival point in the UK (St Pancras) to my house near Birmingham.

I don't have a car, so would have to do this journey by public transport, which gives plenty of opportunity for me to propager le virus tueur even I wear a stupid mask on the train.

Then when I get home I would have to go shopping for two weeks supply of food before I submit to voluntary house arrest, as there is no-one else to do it for me, and you are allowed to leave quarantine for essential purposes anyway.

The chances of getting caught breaking quarantine are virtually zero, as the authorities do not have the resources to check up on all arrivals constantly.

I think I will just give them my mobile number, and then when if they phone me I can pretend I am at home.

So in the UK it is not proper quarantine, otherwise you would be taken from your arrival point in the UK to somewhere secure and not allowed to leave until the quarantine period was over.

Which makes me think that the quarantine rules are just like face masks, ie. a sop to the public to make them "feel" safe and protected against hordes of nasty infected foreigners. Whereas in fact they serve very little purpose.

A lot of young people carry knives because they say it makes them "feel" safe, whereas the effect of carrying knives is exactly the opposite, as it increases the risk.

 

[brad465]

I was meant to be in Majorca on an organised Sportive cycle in April, which has been postponed till October. I did the same sportive 2 years ago, and can tell from this if they're being sensible they will postpone it again, as participation is in the 1000s with entries from all over Europe, so any virus, let alone Covid, would have a "field day" spreading there, especially at the mass group before the start and any feed stations en route. I tried to go for a full year postponement initially but the organisers are not currently offering it, although my tour company group (not the same as the event organisers), think a further postponement will happen, so I agreed to October in anticipation of this, while sparing the hassle of a travel insurance claim. If I had to do quarantine on return I could probably manage on the working from home side of things and have contacts for buying essentials, although it will still be undesirable.

 

[Yew]

Which makes me think that the quarantine rules are just like face masks, ie. a sop to the public to make them "feel" safe and protected against hordes of nasty infected foreigners. Whereas in fact they serve very little purpose.

It is somewhat reminiscent of our laws around electrical sockets in bathrooms. We don't have regular sockets and switches in bathrooms, because obviously water and electricity are dangerous. Despite this, we don't have a statistically significant difference in the number of deaths caused by bathroom electrocution. However I bet a campaign to repeal this restriction would be met with outcry, as it's making things more apparently dangerous, despite no increase in actual danger.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'he two holidays to Ibiza/Formentera back-to-back; end Sept and return and back mid-Oct. So I would be out again before the 14-day quarantine is completed. On the positive side it's two months away so time for the situation to improve and back-to-normal; but I feel foolish for booking in the first place, and that's it as far as I'm concerned for at least 12 months. Also now thoroughly depresed again.

If millions feel like me, and I bet they do, because of the uncertainty and getting your money back (even though the Balearics is not on the no-travel list, the 14 day quarantine will put many off travelling) then we can wave the airline industry goodbye. And how will airports cope with a tiny fraction going through compared to normal?

I think we should nationalise and close down most of the airline and airport industry, possibly with some level of extended furlough, with a view to restarting and possibly reprivatising when it's all over.

It'd cost a fraction of what nationalising the banks cost.

It is somewhat reminiscent of our laws around electrical sockets in bathrooms. We don't have regular sockets and switches in bathrooms, because obviously water and electricity are dangerous. Despite this, we don't have a statistically significant difference in the number of deaths caused by bathroom electrocution. However I bet a campaign to repeal this restriction would be met with outcry, as it's making things more apparently dangerous, despite no increase in actual danger.

Eh? We don't have a statistically significant difference in the number of deaths caused by bathroom electrocution because of those measures!

I seem to recall, though, that that requirement has been removed provided any bathroom circuit is protected by an RCD because that renders it effectively safe.

 

[WestCoast]

I've been constantly bombarded with emails from Airlines and Travel Companies about booking a holiday now it's "safe", even Glasgow Airport has emailled me multiple times! I've never unsubscribed to as many mailing lists in a week or so!

I think people should go on holiday to places with equal or low rates of Covid to the UK if they want to however that is strictly on the provision that the destination is taking appropriate measures and the rates remain equal to or lower than the UK. The people going also need to take the same precautions they do as if they were in the UK, some of the the Spanish regional governments are asking for trouble if they open the nightlife to British people going out there because they can't get it at home. Also this stuff I'm reading about opening 'socially distanced clubs' in Ibiza seems crazy to me; trust me as someone who goes to clubs and DJ sets it WILL NOT work. The whole premise is built on partying in large groups of friends and meeting people.

In this case I think the Government has made the right call given the reported situation in some Spanish regions. It seems like some of the popular resorts are not really massively affected but even so it becomes incredibly complex to start profiling people based on whether they've been to Marbella or Benidorm and working out which one is safer!