Air bridges with European countries given "green light"

[Ianno87]

Which would basically kill off a lot of tourism and airlines, 10,000s jobs lost in the process...

And a lot of people who've worked hard in trying circumstances for months being denied a holiday, as UK hospitality simply does not have the necessary capacity (unless you've got the money to pay high prices)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which would basically kill off a lot of tourism and airlines, 10,000s jobs lost in the process...

Airlines are dead. We may as well nationalise them and reduce them massively in scope. They will not survive this, there is just no way they can.

The domestic tourist industry can provide tourism for British people who can't now holiday abroad. From what I'm seeing it's really hard to find somewhere to book in the Lakes etc - it is working!

And a lot of people who've worked hard in trying circumstances for months being denied a holiday, as UK hospitality simply does not have the necessary capacity (unless you've got the money to pay high prices)

I'm sorry, but "diddums". Social distancing affects people badly every day and is doing far more damage to business across the country. Not having two weeks eating egg and chips in some Spanish all-inclusive dump is really a small thing to lose for a year or two. Closed borders and no social distancing, as New Zealand have achieved, would be hugely preferable.

 

[Bantamzen]

As I posted elsewhere, this is why travel abroad this year does not make sense. It'll be dynamic, ever-changing and completely uninsurable. Take a British holiday and support our local tourist industry (though maybe consider first places that weren't waving eff-off banners a few weeks ago).

My view remains to be honest that we shouldn't have air bridges and we should have quarantine, in a State facility, with testing, for anyone entering the country regardless of origin. It's easier to deal with the problem in isolation.

Be very careful what you wish for. It might start with no international travel, but could soon lead to Cumbria banning people from Buckinghamshire.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Be very careful what you wish for. It might start with no no international travel, but could soon lead to Cumbria banning people from Buckinghamshire.

More likely Sturgeon will require quarantine for people from England. That appears to be within her power.

 

[adc82140]

Airlines are dead. We may as well nationalise them and reduce them massively in scope. They will not survive this, there is just no way they can.

The domestic tourist industry can provide tourism for British people who can't now holiday abroad. From what I'm seeing it's really hard to find somewhere to book in the Lakes etc - it is working!



I'm sorry, but "diddums". Social distancing affects people badly every day and is doing far more damage to business across the country. Not having two weeks eating egg and chips in some Spanish all-inclusive dump is really a small thing to lose for a year or two. Closed borders and no social distancing, as New Zealand have achieved, would be hugely preferable.

You have a really strange idea of what foreign travel involves.

 

[Huntergreed]

More likely Sturgeon will require quarantine for people from England. That appears to be within her power.

How is this even remotely workable?

Many people in my region live here and work in England or vice versus, would they have to work one shift then spend 2 weeks on “quarantine” before going back to work for one more shift and repeating the process?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You have a really strange idea of what foreign travel involves.

I was being sarcastic.

My point was that pretty much no international travel is necessary. Moving goods is necessary but goods can be moved without people. We should all just take a break from it for a couple of years. It won't disappear.

How is this even remotely workable?

Many people in my region live here and work in England or vice versus, would they have to work one shift then spend 2 weeks on “quarantine” before going back to work for one more shift and repeating the process?

There might be some sort of exemption, or you might need to stay in England.

 

[Ianno87]

You have a really strange idea of what foreign travel involves.

I've spent 4 months feeling like I'm failing my kids due to having to balance them and work at the same time. All the time

An educational foreign experience is the least I owe them. Not near a beach or any all you can eat English breakfasts.

But yes, people say "Diddums" and take a cheap shot instead...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've spent 4 months feeling like I'm failing my kids due to having to balance them and work at the same time. All the time

An educational foreign experience is the least I owe them.

Have an educational domestic experience, then; perhaps take them on an activity trip to the Lakes or something, I'm sure they'd love it. This really isn't as important as the whole country's health and economy. It just isn't.

 

[Mag_seven]

Surely all you need to do if you are returning from Spain is to be allowed to register for a test and if negative you don't have to quarantine for 14 days?

 

[Ianno87]

Have an educational domestic experience, then; perhaps take them on an activity trip to the Lakes or something, I'm sure they'd love it. This really isn't as important as the whole country's health and economy. It just isn't.

But you smugly said it's fully booked... and there's not much to do there with two little legs too small to walk very far, but too big to be carried

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely all you need to do if you are returning from Spain is to be allowed to register for a test and if negative you don't have to quarantine for 14 days?

No, because a test is not considered accurate enough if you are asymptomatic.

 

[adc82140]

My point was that pretty much no international travel is necessary. Moving goods is necessary but goods can be moved without people. We should all just take a break from it for a couple of years. It won't disappear.

So families should be split up, no culture for a few years. What a strange thing to hope for.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But you smugly said it's fully booked...

It's busy, but if you go midweek I'm sure you'd find something.

But seriously, it's a very selfish attitude to feel that a family holiday is more important than the health and economy of the country. As I said, it isn't. Not even nearly. Foreign travel is a nice to have - it is very nice, but it should stop now until a vaccine.

So families should be split up, no culture for a few years. What a strange thing to hope for.

If it's important to you to visit, accept 14 days quarantine in a Government facility.

 

[Bantamzen]

I was being sarcastic.

My point was that pretty much no international travel is necessary. Moving goods is necessary but goods can be moved without people. We should all just take a break from it for a couple of years. It won't disappear.

A lot of travel is unnecessary. Do you really need to go walking in the Lake District for example?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot of travel is unnecessary. Do you really need to go walking in the Lake District for example?

Clearly not, but I'm not clear how stopping that would contribute to keeping the island of Great Britain COVID-free. We like NZ have that unique opportunity because we're an island - our borders are not porous, they are very well controlled. And both Scotland and Wales prove that it is at least feasible to get very close to elimination.

If it would achieve that end (though I'm not sure how it even vaguely could) then it would be reasonable that I didn't do it for a year or two. If MK is subject to a local lockdown (unlikely as our rate is one of the lowest in the country, but as we have lots of places nearby with high case counts) then I would be asked to do exactly that for the lockdown period and quite rightly so.

Actually that did happen - hillwalking in the UK was near enough banned in 2001 for a year or so due to Foot and Mouth, and again quite rightly so. I did other things for that year. The greater good is more important than my holiday choices.

 

[Ianno87]

It's busy, but if you go midweek I'm sure you'd find something.

But seriously, it's a very selfish attitude to feel that a family holiday is more important than the health and economy of the country. As I said, it isn't. Not even nearly. Foreign travel is a nice to have - it is very nice, but it should stop now until a vaccine.

Excuse me? I've run myself into the ground for 4 months doing full time work and full time childcare at the same time as each other to stay at home.

Two kids I've battled to keep in a decent sleeping routine, educated and stimulated and (with one) not having his potty training take a serious backwards step.

Forgive me for being "selfish".

 

[Bletchleyite]

Excuse me? I've run myself into the ground for 4 months doing full time work and full time childcare at the same time as each other to stay at home.

Two kids I've battled to keep in a decent sleeping routine, educated and stimulated and (with one) not having his potty training take a serious backwards step.

Forgive me for being "selfish".

I'm sure many other parents have as well, many of whom simply can't afford a foreign jolly. Take a domestic holiday or a staycation.

 

[Bantamzen]

Clearly not, but I'm not clear how stopping that would contribute to keeping the island of Great Britain COVID-free. We like NZ have that unique opportunity because we're an island - our borders are not porous, they are very well controlled. And both Scotland and Wales prove that it is at least feasible to get very close to elimination.

If it would achieve that end (though I'm not sure how it even vaguely could) then it would be reasonable that I didn't do it for a year or two. If MK is subject to a local lockdown (unlikely as our rate is one of the lowest in the country, but as we have lots of places nearby with high case counts) then I would be asked to do exactly that for the lockdown period and quite rightly so.

Actually that did happen - hillwalking in the UK was near enough banned in 2001 for a year or so due to Foot and Mouth, and again quite rightly so. I did other things for that year. The greater good is more important than my holiday choices.

Erm, you do know it is here already and it won't just disappear if we slammed the borders shut, right?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Erm, you do know it is here already and it won't just disappear if we slammed the borders shut, right?

Close[1] the borders then retighten measures, in specific areas if necessary, to eliminate it. Keep them closed and it can't get back in.

It's precisely what NZ have done. They have clearly done the best of any country.

[1] 14 day quarantine in a Government facility with at least three tests during that time should be adequate.

 

[adc82140]

New Zealand is a flawed example. They will have to open their borders at some point, than bam, cases will explode because there is no immunity at all. The most pessimistic estimates say that 1 in 10 of us in tbe UK is immune, and that's a significant fire break for transmission.

 

[Bletchleyite]

New Zealand is a flawed example. They will have to open their borders at some point, than bam, cases will explode because there is no immunity at all. The most pessimistic estimates say that 1 in 10 of us in tbe UK is immune, and that's a significant fire break for transmission.

They can wait for a vaccine. Unlike us, they can enjoy doing so with no social distancing or masks at all.

They may have an issue if there won't be one. But a vaccine will only not work if it isn't possible to deliver long lasting immunity, and if that's the case then herd immunity won't work either. In that case we are talking about an extinction event, and it's a choice between a slow extinction of the human race or let it run and get it over with.

 

[adc82140]

There may never be a vaccine. Then what?

 

[Bletchleyite]

There may never be a vaccine. Then what?

If there is never a vaccine, we are talking about an extinction event, as herd immunity won't work either.

It does look likely that one will be possible, though. So NZ's "interim state" is much better than ours.

 

[Richard Scott]

If there is never a vaccine, we are talking about an extinction event, as herd immunity won't work either.

Oh come on, it's not that serious. Make take many generations but eventually will end up like a common cold. Believe they were lethal once?

 

[Ianno87]

I'm sure many other parents have as well, many of whom simply can't afford a foreign jolly. Take a domestic holiday or a staycation.

Domestic holidays anywhere decent are more expensive (school holiday prices, for a full family).

Cheaper to go to Europe than Cornwall...

 

[adc82140]

Of course it's not an extinction event. 90% of people are either asymptomatic or mildly affected. Another 9% may be rather unwell, but recover.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Domestic holidays anywhere decent are more expensive (school holiday prices, for a full family).

Cheaper to go to Europe than Cornwall...

Well, sorry, you saving money isn't more than my health and the economy.

Of course it's not an extinction event. 90% of people are either asymptomatic or mildly affected. Another 9% may be rather unwell, but recover.

When they get it once. We don't know what'll happen the next time.

If there's long-lasting immunity from catching it (at least 12 months), a vaccine is highly likely. If not, it will just keep going round, killing more and more people as it does.

 

[Huntergreed]

If there is never a vaccine, we are talking about an extinction event, as herd immunity won't work either.

Extinction? For a disease with a death rate of around 0.5 - 0.8%? That’s just ludicrous and doom mongering.

Why won’t herd immunity work? Although antibody levels decrease over time, T-cells play an important role in immunity and seem to, so far, prevent reinfection in the medium term (otherwise we’d have already heard of cases of this by now)

 

[Darandio]

Oh come on, it's not that serious. Make take many generations but eventually will end up like a common cold. Believe they were lethal once?

Of course, just like the Spanish Flu. It's still around every year.