Face coverings to become mandatory in shops in England (includes poll)

[adc82140]

Supposing a shop (or chain) refused to implement this law because it would adversely affect their trade and instead put a sign up outside saying "masks optional here, enter at your own risk". Could the government or indeed the Police force them to comply ?

Yes. However, if they put up a sign saying "we don't care if you wear a mask or not, but the law says you need to" they would probably be OK

 

[ashkeba]

This has probably already been mentioned, but all the large supermarkets have quite large cafe/restaurant areas where people will not be wearing masks, so why worry about the rest of the supermarket?

Because cutting the risk is still worthwhile. It is not as if the masks are 100% effective anyway but that does not make them pointless. It is like heart medication does not 100% prevent heart failure but most people would still take it if it cuts the risk and has so few downsides.

 

[DB]

Is this likely though? There are certain professions that have regularly worn masks, long before we had Covid. My sister who works in care has been wearing masks since the start of March and hasn't noted any adverse effects.

But people working in that sector will be full trained in how to use masks properly, and will be replacing them regularly. This isn't likely to apply to a lot of the general public.

 

[richw]

This in my opinion is so they can lose social distancing reading between lines and the actual lines themselves... so shops can be busier

 

[ashkeba]

If masks are now mandatory in shops, I don't understand why they wouldn't be mandatory in museums as well?

I think the reason is that Boris's government does not do consistency, coherence or attention to detail when they draft regulations. For examples, see all the past Health Protection Regulations 2020!

 

[Huntergreed]

I have just read an article on the BBC Website, about some of the big museums reopening in London next month (V&A, Science Museum and the Natural History Museum). It mentions that masks will not be compulsory but "strongly recommended". If masks are now mandatory in shops, I don't understand why they wouldn't be mandatory in museums as well? I would have thought that the risk of catching covid would be higher in museums, than it would be in some shops. I suppose this means that the only shops in England that will not require face coverings will be museum shops?

Also, who will be responsible for enforcing the mask wearing in shops on station platforms or concourses? Would it be the British Transport Police or station staff?

People have to go shopping, so mandating them won't hinder (the big ones) too much.

People choose to go to a museum for leisure and to enjoy learning about things. If masks were mandated here, many wouldn't go and a lot of the museums would, inevitably, close.

 

[DB]

I think the reason is that Boris's government does not do consistency, coherence or attention to detail when they draft regulations. For examples, see all the past Health Protection Regulations 2020!

Pubs and restaurants are the most glaring inconsistency - seemingly, if you follow the government's "logic", sitting resonably close to other people for possibly an hour or two at a time is less risky than briefly passing someone in the breakfast cereals aisle in Tesco!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Can you wear a crash helmet (full face) in place of a mask ?

Don't see why not!

It has to be the first time in history that a bank won't let you inside unless your face is covered up. It's got to be good times for those who like robbing post offices.

Pubs and restaurants are the most glaring inconsistency

My old local in Newcastle have emailed me to say they're re-opening this week, but wearing a mask will be mandatory except when sitting at a table.

People are just making stuff up as they go along now.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It has to be the first time in history that a bank won't let you inside unless your face is covered up. It's got to be good times for those who like robbing post offices.

FWIW, banks are exempt from the face covering legislation in Scotland - I imagine England will follow suit.

 

[westv]

Don't see why not!

It has to be the first time in history that a bank won't let you inside unless your face is covered up. It's got to be good times for those who like robbing post offices.

Are banks/Building Societies included in the new rules?

 

[John Luxton]

As a lifelong Tory - I will be cutting up my membership card and sending it back next Friday unless this decision is changed. I have seen on Facebook that some have already done this.
I have also written to my (non Tory) MP - so perhaps they will be looking for more votes next time round?

Really unhappy about this for several reasons - first it is a matter of choice. Also if so necessary - why 10 days after the announcement, why not last night? Wearing a mask is uncomfortable - I did buy one some weeks ago in case I had to use public transport and I have tried wearing it. It was a good quality one and has replaceable filters. You can leave these out which does make it slightly easier to breath - but obviously means the mask has no effect - but it really is unpleasant. What is more as a spectacle wearer I keep steaming up - I am in more danger of having an accident because I can't see where I am going than catching anything.

As regards Covid rules / guidance since March I must admit to having ignored them, popped over the border into Wales and nothing has happened to me. Basically I refuse to be bossed around by politicians who should be my servants instead they take advice from unelected scientists who ever since the climate change agenda came to the fore have had an undue influence.

Anyway despite me flouting the rules I caught nothing and because I avoided obvious routes, avoided dressing like a tourist, and travelled very early even avoided the attentions of the boys in blue checking if your journey to Wales was necessary.

But in admitting what I did, I did made sure I did not get into close contact with anyone - and therefore would not have passed anything on. I acted responsibly using my own judgement as people should be allowed to do. Just because at the start of lockdown when that queue formed up Snowdon - it doesn't mean every visitor is going to behave that way.

We were told to stay at home, the Welsh Govt didn't want visitors in Wales - but I proved on several occasions I could have a day out in Wales perfectly safely and posing no risk to anyone.

We have all been subject to an unreasonable amount of state control which frankly I find unacceptable. Though English I had until the differential restrictions imposed by the devolved powers been very sympathetic to eventual independence for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - but now I am not so sure. I think it has made me a unionist as I want consistency.

Too much has been based on "what ifs", projections of death tolls that have been way off the mark, double counted numbers of infected cases as admitted the other day.

This is has all gone beyond a joke in this increasingly risk averse society. I am under the impression that if the current populace and their politicians had been around in 1939 the white flag would have been produced to avoid deaths from air raids! Where would we be now?

Sadly, yes there is a virus, and sadly yes people are going to die - but given the projected and vastly inaccurate figure of 500,000 that was being circulated in March we have ended up with only about 9% of that figure in reality. Instead we have lost potentially up to 4 million jobs if the BBC news this evening is to believed.

This has confirmed what me and many other lockdown sceptics have believed for the past 14 weeks that the cure certainly is worse than the disease.

I am 60 and I doubt the bill will be fully paid off in my lifetime. We gave all the economic gains since the post crash slump in weeks.

For what it is worth the price has been far too high

Anyway those are my feelings at the moment.

The Keep Britain Free movement - led by businessman Simon Dolan is worth following on line.

John

 

[westv]

People have to go shopping, so mandating them won't hinder (the big ones) too much.

People choose to go to a museum for leisure and to enjoy learning about things. If masks were mandated here, many wouldn't go and a lot of the museums would, inevitably, close.

As a lot of/most museums are free how do visitor numbers relate to income?

 

[Skymonster]

Supposing a shop (or chain) refused to implement this law because it would adversely affect their trade and instead put a sign up outside saying "masks optional here, enter at your own risk". Could the government or indeed the Police force them to comply ?

Businesses are not responsible for enforcing regulations such as this. While I think your wording is a bit provocative, a sign saying “Our staff are not responsible for enforcing mask regulations” (and turning a blind eye to anyone entering without a mask) would be a sustainable position for a shop to take.

 

[Tetchytyke]

FWIW, banks are exempt from the face covering legislation in Scotland - I imagine England will follow suit.

Which makes even more of a mockery of the supposed benefits of mandating their use!

Are banks/Building Societies included in the new rules?

I was assuming so as they are retail facilities, but the legislation hasn't been written yet AFAIK.

As a lot of/most museums are free how do visitor numbers relate to income?

Grant funding is insufficient and museums are heavily dependent on donations and on sales of additional items, such as guides, brochures, etc. Not to mention revenue from their cafes and gift shops.

No people coming in means no donations, no sales through the gift shop, and nobody buying tea and cake.

 

[Huntergreed]

As a lot of/most museums are free how do visitor numbers relate to income?

Many museums rely quite a lot on donations from visiting members of the public, gift shop/cafe sales, and selling programmes etc... without visitors, they’ll lose this important source of income.

 

[Skymonster]

As a lifelong Tory - I will be cutting up my membership card and sending it back next Friday unless this decision is changed. I have seen on Facebook that some have already done this.
I have also written to my (non Tory) MP - so perhaps they will be looking for more votes next time round?

Really unhappy about this for several reasons - first it is a matter of choice. Also if so necessary - why 10 days after the announcement, why not last night? I must admit to having ignored the rules, popped over the border into Wales and nothing has happened to me.

Caught nothing and because I avoided obvious routes, avoided dressing like a tourist, and traveled very early even avoided the attentions of the boys in blue checking if your journey was really necessary.

But in admitting what I did not get into close contact with anyone - and therefore would not have passed anything on. We were told to stay at home, the Welsh Govt didn't want us in Wales - but I proved on several occasions I could have a day out in Wales perfectly safely and posing no risk to anyone.

We have all been subject to an unreasonable amount of state control which frankly I find unacceptable. Too much has been based on "what ifs", projections of death tolls that have been way off the mark, double counted numbers of infected cases as admitted the other day.

This is has all gone beyond a joke in this increasingly risk averse society. I am under the impression that if the current populace and their politicians had been around in 1939 the white flag would have been produced to avoid deaths from air raids! Where would we be now?

Sadly, yes there is a virus, and sadly yes people are going to die - but given the projected and vastly inaccurate figure of 500,000 that was being circulated in March we have ended up with only about 9% of that figure in reality. Instead we have lost potentially up to 4 million jobs if the BBC news this evening is to believed.

This has confirmed what me and many other lockdown sceptics have believed for the past 14 weeks that the cure certainly is worse than the disease.

I am 60 and I doubt the bill will be fully paid off in my lifetime. We gave all the economic gains since the post crash slump in weeks.

For what it is worth the price has been far too high

Anyway those are my feelings at the moment.

The Keep Britain Free movement - led by businessman Simon Dolan is worth following on line.

John

Best post on the Covid forum in a long time John. Agree with everything you say.

 

[Ianno87]

Some quite depressing, selfish anti-mask posts in the last few pages.

I don't want to have to wear a mask any more than the next person. They might indeed be a waste of time.

But it's a small, temporary, sacrifice for each of us to make that might, just might, make a difference and restore normality that bit quicker.

Some people need to take a good, long hard look at their priorites in life.

 

[John Luxton]

As a lot of/most museums are free how do visitor numbers relate to income?

Depends which museums you go to - you do have to pay for many.

 

[AM9]

Some quite depressing, selfish anti-mask posts in the last few pages.

I don't want to have to wear a mask any more than the next person. They might indeed be a waste of time.

But it's a small, temporary, sacrifice for each of us to make that might, just might, make a difference and restore normality that bit quicker.

Some people need to take a good, long hard look at their priorites in life.

Tht'a not likely with libertarians. Their assumed 'rights' are valued above every fellow citizen's else's health and safety however little effort is called for on their part.

 

[adc82140]

But it's a small, temporary, sacrifice for each of us to make that might, just might, make a difference and restore normality that bit quicker.

If it was indeed temporary, with a set review date, and conditions published that would result in the lifting of the regulation, I doubt most people would have a problem.

A lot of people fear the thin end of the wedge. What is next? Why now? Will the government just kowtow to the loudest person on Facebook? Why was there not a press conference with journalists given the opportunity to quiz the scientists? So many unanswered questions.

 

[DB]

Some quite depressing, selfish anti-mask posts in the last few pages.

I don't want to have to wear a mask any more than the next person. They might indeed be a waste of time.

But it's a small, temporary, sacrifice for each of us to make that might, just might, make a difference and restore normality that bit quicker.

Some people need to take a good, long hard look at their priorites in life.

It's not selfish to object to something which is dystopian and has little evidence of any tangible benefit - the government is claiming that there is increasing evidence, but if you read the recent scientific papers this is clearly not the case - the evidence has not changed and remains weak. If there is any benefit at all, it is minimal and may well be further offset by bad use of masks (fiddling with them, etc). Enforcing mask use in these circumstances is completely disproportionate.

I would argue that those who are constantly trying to shame those who have retained a sense of perspective, and force them to comply with ridiculous restrictions, are the 'selfish' ones.

 

[stevetay3]

Hi Just two quick ones

1 Should I have to keep a mask on whilst waiting on the platform or changing trains.
2 My journey tomorrow requires a change of train half way, should I wear a new mask for each train or not,

 

[Ianno87]

It's not selfish to object to something which is dystopian and has little evidence of any tangible benefit - the government is claiming that there is increasing evidence, but if you read the recent scientific papers this is clearly not the case - the evidence has not changed and remains weak. If there is any benefit at all, it is minimal and may well be further offset by bad use of masks (fiddling with them, etc). Enforcing mask use in these circumstances is completely disproportionate.

I would argue that those who are constantly trying to shame those who have retained a sense of perspective, and force them to comply with ridiculous restrictions, are the 'selfish' ones.

I've got a sense of perspective. It's called wanting normality back and being unable to even comprehend having to face the idea of another lockdown, given how hard the first version has been at times.

 

[island]

FWIW, banks are exempt from the face covering legislation in Scotland - I imagine England will follow suit.

I expect so. There would be serious difficulties verifying customers’ identities otherwise.

 

[Ianno87]

Hi Just two quick ones

1 Should I have to keep a mask on whilst waiting on the platform or changing trains.
2 My journey tomorrow requires a change of train half way, should I wear a new mask for each train or not,

1 = Yes, that is good practice to do that

 

[Skymonster]

Some quite depressing, selfish anti-mask posts in the last few pages.

Some quite depressing, selfish, gullible pro-masks posts in the last few pages too.

 

[jtuk]

Some quite depressing, selfish anti-mask posts in the last few pages.

I don't want to have to wear a mask any more than the next person. They might indeed be a waste of time.

But it's a small, temporary, sacrifice for each of us to make that might, just might, make a difference and restore normality that bit quicker.

Some people need to take a good, long hard look at their priorites in life.

It's a "small, temporary sacrifice" - if they came out and said it would be reviewed in three weeks, or something like that, I'd probably be fine with it, but they haven't, and my fear is that they try to extend it to areas where it's even more pointless. They said that income tax was temporary - that was in the 1840s

 

[island]

Hi Just two quick ones

1 Should I have to keep a mask on whilst waiting on the platform or changing trains.
2 My journey tomorrow requires a change of train half way, should I wear a new mask for each train or not,

1) Yes in Scotland, no in England, and you don’t even need a mask on the train in Wales.
2) The general consensus is that masks should be changed every 3-4 hours so it depends how long the trip takes.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

1 Should I have to keep a mask on whilst waiting on the platform or changing trains.
2 My journey tomorrow requires a change of train half way, should I wear a new mask for each train or not,

Legally, no, as long as the station is not in Scotland.

If you're using disposable ones, and removing it between trains, then yes. If you keep it on for the duration of the journey (including on the platform), and is under 3/4 hours then no, but it's ultimately your choice.

 

[Skymonster]

Hi Just two quick ones

1 Should I have to keep a mask on whilst waiting on the platform or changing trains.
2 My journey tomorrow requires a change of train half way, should I wear a new mask for each train or not,

The regulations do not require you to do either.