Nottingham Station One Month Blockade

[David Pemberton]

The purpose of this thread is to ask members for creative ideas to keep passengers "on the rails" during the blockade of Nottingham station. Although the work is not planned until 2012/13, the opportunity to influence plans diminishes very quickly.

Extensive re-signalling is planned for the Nottingham station area to ease congestion and improve flexibility. The present plan is for a one month total blockade in summer 2013 and for East Midlands Parkway to become a "pseudo Nottingham"*. As I understand it the majority of the work is on the western approach (Mansfield junction to Nottingham station) however there is work to the eastern approaches so travel to Grantham will also be "blockaded".

(*that's how Tim Shoveller, MD of EMT thinks he'll be able to sell it)

I would like to say right away that I realise that rail/public budgets are under great pressure and that any cost increase might jeopardise the whole scheme. Better a total blockade for a month than no improvements. But it does seem unnecessarily simplistic, lazy even, for EMT, NR etc just to opt for a total blockade. Virgin adopted some ingenious ways of keeping their passengers on the rails during the WCML upgrade.

The plan to make East Midlands Parkway [EMD] into a pseudo Nottingham seems flawed:

1. To disconnect one of the Core Cities from the rail network for a whole month must have economic consequences - and in the summer for in-bound tourism, out-bound holiday-makers, and the high-value Nottingham/London business traveller.

2. EMD doesn't have the parking capacity for it to take on Nottingham users, and the A453 is very congested so travellers will have to allow significant time to make it from NOT to EMD.

Here are some ideas, barmy or otherwise.

1. The eastern approaches need less work so it might be possible to phase work to keep a reduced number of Nottingham/Grantham paths. These could be used for a shuttle to Grantham timed to meet East Coast services to/from KGX - this would assist the business traveller and also the international tourist trade. Additionally it might (and this is a big might) be possible to find paths on ECML to allow the Robin Hood to operate via Grantham during the one month blockade.

2. Netherfield station is much closer to Nottingham station than EMD and the road between them is much shorter and less congested than the route to EMD. It could be used per suggestion 2 above if it is not possible to keep the eastern side of Nottingham station open. I think that the track configuration between Netherfield and Nottingham might permit turnbacks.

A critique of the above ideas plus any other ideas would be welcome. Also any thoughts on the sort of perverse incentives that penalty payments, ORCATS, or others might produce that would make the TOCs prefer bussing.

 

[Geezertronic]

Making Emerson Park (EMP) the pseudo Nottingham would indeed be foolish since it is in North London

Making East Midlands Parkway (EMD) a pseudo Nottingham is one way of getting people to use the station I presume as long as they are providing rail replacement between Nottingham and EMD

 

[bangor-toad]

Here are some ideas, barmy or ortherwise.

1. The eastern approaches need less work so it might be possible to phase work to keep a reduced number of Nottingham/Grantham paths. These could be used for a shuttle to Grantham timed to meet East Coast services to/from KGX - this would assist the business traveller and also the international tourist trade. Additionally it might (and this is a big might) be possible to find paths on ECML to allow the Robin Hood to operate via Grantham during the one month blockade.

2. Netherfield station is much closer to Nottingham station than EMD and the road between them is much shorter and less congested than the route to EMD. It could be used per suggestion 2 above if it is not possible to keep the eastern side of Nottingham station open. I think that the track configuration between Netherfield and Nottingham might permit turnbacks.

A critique of the above ideas plus any other ideas would be welcome. Also any thoughts on the sort of perverse incentives that penalty payments, ORCATS, or others might produce that would make the TOCs prefer bussing.

Hi there,
The car park at EMD always seems to have quite a bit of space - I think there'd be sufficient space there to accommodate the extra cars. I agree with you about the A453 though - it's not going to be fun.


I think that using EMD isn't such a bad idea. Services can run to/from Derby and pickup/dropoff at EMD, the times probably wouldn't be too bad. If capacity and/or paths at Derby can't be found, services could go up the Erewash Valley. Perhaps a local shuttle could run from Netherfield to Grantham for those on the east of the city and the Leicester/Lincoln service could be re-timed to run between Beeston and Leicester to form useful connections.


If money were no object then perhaps I've got two more options:

1 - Build a station at/near Toton yard and run up the Erewash Valley line. Hey, if we all planned in advance, this could be the station eventually used by HS3 when it comes near Nottingham

2 - Build a new station near Tollerton (next to the southern ring road) and reinstate the Old Dalby test track so that services could run Nottingham, Melton, Corby, Kettering, London.

Hmmm, looking at the likely cost I think we'll be seeing a few extra buses sat in traffic on the A453...
Cheers,
Jason

 

[Lampshade]

Maybe it's just a way to get people to use East Midlands Parkway, it's not exactly been the most well patronised station since it opened, with the exception of the Red Dot Day.

 

[moggie]

Much depends on any pway programme to dig out and relay the track / S&C that is planned to take place in the blockade. But - and it is a but - if say two lines can be kept operational for most of the period with two platforms keep a temporary reduced timetable running on two lines signalled from the old interlocking / psb. Alternatively a temporary simple interlocking / panel for the two lines kept in use. The remaining lines de-commissioned and modified with all connecting S&C laid in and commissioned onto the new signalling. Then switch temporary service over to modified lines on the new signalling, block and repeat the technique to complete the switchover etc on lines that have been providing the temporary service.

Wheels free of all lines at some point (long weekend) will still be required to complete the testing of the new signalling on those lines and connections / routes between all lines. The aim should be to clip up and therefore simpify the temporary layout as much as possible for the tempoary service.

As one has noted - it can be done - it was on West Coast. Whether a worthwhile service can be provided by the various TOC's within the layout contraints is another thing - good luck to whoever gets the work.

 

[mumrar]

According to National Rail figures Nottingham station has 512 spaces, East Mids P'way 850, so should be able to cope. How about EMD being the 'go to' station for the MML passengers to Nottingham, but actually running a shuttle from Derby to Beeston via an EMD pickup, I believe the signalling/infrastructure exists for this to be used as a turn round point. Shorter road journey to Notttingham then.

 

[David Pemberton]

Making Emerson Park (EMP) the pseudo Nottingham would indeed be foolish since it is in North London

Making East Midlands Parkway (EMD) a pseudo Nottingham is one way of getting people to use the station I presume as long as they are providing rail replacement between Nottingham and EMD

What a laugh, I just took the code straight from the MD of EMT's email to me without actually checking that it was correct.

"At a strategic level, the principle is that East Midlands Parkway becomes a pseudo Nottingham for the period, with as many services as possible operating to and from EMP,..."

EMT serves Nottingham with a rather slower service than Derby, I know they don't think much of us in NOT, but making us travel by bus from North London is taking things a bit far

According to National Rail figures Nottingham station has 512 spaces, East Mids P'way 850, so should be able to cope. How about EMD being the 'go to' station for the MML passengers to Nottingham, but actually running a shuttle from Derby to Beeston via an EMD pickup, I believe the signalling/infrastructure exists for this to be used as a turn round point. Shorter road journey to Notttingham then.

A EMD - Beeston shuttle would help relieve the pressure on the A453 traffic, EMD parking, and mean much less/quicker bussing. Also it would mean that EMT kept hold of their London passengers rather than handing them to East Coast at Grantham.

The maths on the car park spaces doesn't quite work because, although I think that EMD is not anywhere near full, NOT is much nearer capacity. And then of course one would have the add the extra cars from passengers like me who usually get a lift/cycle/bus/tram to NOT but could be forced into the car.

Any further ideas/flaws on keeping the eastern approaches open or a Netherfield-Grantham shuttle would be welcome.

 

[Geezertronic]

I used to have to travel to Clifton every day down the A453 when they were building EMD, was a nightmare at the best of times...

 

[silvermachine]

Given the nature of the blockage I think the plan to use EMD is pretty sound. The jounrye along the a453 is pretty poor, but the skylink buses manage to keep time pretty well along there, and buses could divert through Gotham and avoid most of it ( thats what us locals do)

The trains that would have terminated at Nottingham will be able to stable and reverse on the line from Long eaton to attenborough

I guess the derby nottingham trains will terminate at long eaton and then reverse on the line from Long eaton to attenborough. The liverpool to norwich could be diverted through toton and then syston junction.

I dont think Beeston would be viable for handling a large volume of traffic - the approach to the station is very congested and along narrow residential streets, and there is very little car parking.

 

[Kneedown]

I would like to say right away that I realise that rail/public budgets are under great pressure and that any cost increase might jeopardise the whole scheme.

Was talking with one of the top managers last week when i got back off hol, and the consensus is that the scheme will definitely be going ahead.
As regards what will happen when the blockade is actually in place, we are none the wiser. We've heard nothing of any concrete plans as to how we will operate, although it has been previously mooted about that Beeston will play a role, possibly for stabling purposes, and even Ruddington on the GC!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I don't think Netherfield is a good idea either as it has no car parking at all

 

[bluenoxid]

Personally, I believe that Ruddington would provide a better option for one train per hour with another train running into Derby (if that was available, if not terminate it at EMD). To retain a Robin Hood Line service, the train could set off from Derby and run via Beeston but that will depend on the limits of blockade. Another thing is dealing with the Northern service and the Norwich - Liverpool service. One possible option is to roll it down to EMD and terminate it their. The Norwich-Liverpool will be an interesting diversion.

 

[Shrub Hill]

East midlands parkway will work, although if you really want to sell it to the public IMO , i would encourage the use of both derby and chesterfield if they have vehicles, you could possibly offset this by offering free parking for anyone that has a ticket from nottingham, i am not up to date on the state of pride park and if there is any land you could use there for a temporary car park, obviously places like long eaton and beeston could be used for shuttles to derby with coaches into the centre, The most extreme option if again you can find the space and access, although there is a yard on the western approach, would be to build a tempory station with limited service, got one up pretty quickly in worthington and if it is being pre planned would be conceivable, obviously i have no idea about the feasibility of any of these

 

[brianthegiant]

I do hope the services to birmingham/cardiff; matlock and leicester can at least terminate at beeston
I think parking & access to Beeston (BEE) could be improved, along the lines of re-opening the car park immediately adjacent to Platform 2 westbound (that may require a lease from beeston business park and new cctv). Then the restricted car park by P1 could be limited to pick up/drop off. Station road does get congested but P2 carpark could also be accessed via the road which goes past the boots site, esp for any rail replacement coaches.

Shame that NET (tram) phase 2 from nottm -beeston&stapeleford probably wont be finished by this time, as that could absorb local BEE-NOT trips, though that wouldnt work as a rail replacement connection as tram stops are a significant walk from beeston station.

 

[Failed Unit]

Surely it could be possible to keep at least one platform open at Nottingham for access to the Grantham line, even if it is hand signalled for a while. I suspect it is but the cost would be prohibative!

I doubt EMT would be too keen either as if passengers get used to travelling via Grantham to London they may think it is a better route to use.

 

[Kneedown]

Another thing is dealing with the Northern service and the Norwich - Liverpool service. One possible option is to roll it down to EMD and terminate it their. The Norwich-Liverpool will be an interesting diversion.

Maybe with the Liv - Nor's they'll come via Radford as normal, taking Lenton South Jct (as opposed to Lenton Nth) which will point them in the direction of Beeston and East Mid's P'way, where they'll be able to carry on to Norwich via Oakham? If Beeston isn't involved they could even go via Toton and Trent to EMP.

 

[Geezertronic]

If Beeston isn't involved they could even go via Toton and Trent to EMP.

That's a funny route to take to Emerson Park (EMP)?

 

[Kneedown]

That's a funny route to take to Emerson Park (EMP)?

Must be sufferin from deja vu, i'm sure we've done that gag already!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I doubt EMT would be too keen either as if passengers get used to travelling via Grantham to London they may think it is a better route to use.

That's because it is

 

[Geezertronic]

Must be sufferin from deja vu, i'm sure we've done that gag already!

If it's good enough for BNS it's good enough for EMP

 

[sonic2009]

Ok here's my plan.

Northern will run to chesterfield only.
Emt liverpool - norwich split in 2. One liverpool-derby, and other leicester - norwich via oakham
emt sheffield to london run to derby, then via burton non stp and frieght only line to leicester. Reducing congestion.
Emt derby to london will run derby as normal
emt matlock to leicester calling all stops to emd, then ivanhoe.
Xc cardiff to derby only.
Xc bhm to beeston

not too sure about robin hood line an grantham..

 

[mumrar]

emt sheffield to london run to derby, then via burton non stp and frieght only line to leicester. Reducing congestion.

And increasing journey time considerably by at least 45 minutes I'd guess. That won't really work.

 

[Tomnick]

Why rush to reduce congestion in the Trent area when there's actually less trains running? I'd suggest there might be paths for Liverpool - Norwich trains to run through via the Erewash (to maintain Alfreton and Langley Mill service) , E.M.P. and Melton. That fits with E.M.P. being used as a railhead, though I don't think it'd be practical to handle terminating XC services there (no facility to reverse - they'd have to go forward to Loughboro').

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'd agree with running Liverpool-Norwich via Erewash, EMD and Melton

 

[TomBoyRacer]

A couple of points to raise here

Resignalling and transfer of control from Trent PSB to EMSCC would also likely involve the Lenton triangle. If this is all done on one Workstation (the current boundary between the two is just to the west of Lenton Jns) then this could mean the entire area being out of commision at the same time unless this was done as stageworks. I'm not sure how practical this is.

As regards Terminating trains at East Midlands Parkway, as TomNick says none of the platforms are currently signalled for bi-directional working, meaning any terminating train would have to carry on in the direction it came in until it found somewhere convenient to reverse. Long Eaton is the same.

This will however be a most interesting project and I hope it all goes well.

 

[The Planner]

It does involve the Lenton triangle, the re-sig goes as far as Radford at least. Lenton North to South (the lesser used side) is being singled.