Restoring Your Railway Fund: what ideas would you suggest?

[backontrack]

To think people mock the idea of reopening Tweedbank to Carlisle

Seriously though, good to see the Burscough Curves in there and Skipton-Colne.

Silloth isn't even the fourth-best proposal in Cumbria...

 

[DarloRich]

what could be the sixty schemes? Awards of up to £50,000 towards things like Feasibility studies

The ones I know of that have been submitted or were going to be submitted:

1. Leicester-Burton
2. Stockport to Stalybridge
3. Stocksbridge-Sheffield
4. Sheffield to Chesterfield via Barrow Hill
5. Doncaster to Knottingley
6. Doncaster to Shireoaks
7. Stafford to Wellington
8. Buxton to Matlock
9. Gobowen to Oswestry
10. Rhyl to Corwen
11. Tavistock to Bere Alston
12. Tavistock to Okehampton
13. Brent to Kingsbridge
14. Heathfield to Newton Abbot
15. Stratford to Honeybourne
16. Lostwithiel to Fowey
17. Northampton to Market Harborough
18. Northampton to Bedford
19. Wisbech to March
20. Uckfield to Lewes
21. Bourne End to High Wycombe
22. Sandall and Agbrigg to Barnsley
23. Skipton to Colne
24. York to Beverley
25. Penrith to Keswick
26. Silloth to Carlisle
27. Skelmersdale Spur
28. Afon-wen to Bangor
29. Totton to Fawley
30. Newport to Smallbrook Junction
31. Shanklin to Ventor
32. Burscough Curves
33. Grazebrook to Baguely
34. Shirebrook to Ollerton
35. Poulton-le-Fylde to Fleetwood (not included in the 60)
36. Northumberland Park to Ashington (not included in the 60)

The other 26? Are some of these stations?

List of station bids:

1. Cullompton
2. Wellington
3. Methley
4. Little Deeping
5. Donnington Road
6. Wilton Parkway
7. Standish
8. Marsh Barton

I have thought about maybe Gainsborough to Cleethorpes was submitted?

If this is anywhere close to the actual list the majority of these "schemes" are a total waste of time and money. This just looks like an RUK fantasy thread wibble list! The money would be better spent on small incremental network upgrades than this. I would spend on 27, 32 and 36. I would have a look at 3 for a tram extension and 1 as a development piece. The rest I would bin.

A mile of track will cost a mile of track no matter whether it's done today tomorrow or in 10 years time.

Except it doesn't. It is incredibly naive to think it does and wishing it so does not make it so @Bald Rick has explained why not.

Not sure why some of these are asking for money to fund studies when a few must have them coming out their ears. £50k isnt going to get them much else.

absolutely.

 

[Killingworth]

Join

Except it doesn’t. Costs can vary widely depending on where that mile is and what it is to be built on (physically and politically).

Absolutely. I've noted the talk about Blyth and Ashington with interest from my days of cycling around that area when there was still a little used service. It's fairly level territory.

I see all the new development in that area today, and the almost total lack of evidence to signify the pits that dominated 60 years ago.

Costs of track for that line should be relatively modest because the greater part of it is still in use for freight, yet it's been taking a very long time to get near the detailed design necessary to start work. I see modern stations built with large car parks, yet my memory says there's not room for car parks near the old stations or suggested new ones. I also recall awkwardly situated level crossings across which traffic currently flows fairly easily, but maybe wouldn't with frequent closures for rail traffic.

None of which is unsurmontable, but it all adds materially to costs that aren't directly related to miles being reopened.

 

[Killingworth]

4. Sheffield to Chesterfield via Barrow will be ambitious if they don't sort out the Sheffield Midland two track bottleneck.

Unless they propose running it as an extension of the Stocksbridge service?

I believe they do and it would go via Victoria to Darnall thereby avoiding the congested northern throat from Midland.

It might also avoid the places most people currently want to go to but may generate new journey opportunities. .

The government has asked for a list and it has been supplied. It will provide work for lots of people producing feasibility studies and out of it a handful of schemes will be taken further and 2 or 3 eventually built. But the public will have been consulted, and lots of hopes raised.

Researching schemes to improve the network we already have doesn't have the same emotive pull.

 

[QQQ]

I believe they do and it would go via Victoria to Darnall thereby avoiding the congested northern throat from Midland.

It might also avoid the places most people currently want to go to but may generate new journey opportunities. .

Are they thinking of having a station at Nunnery Square, for Supertram interchange? Or Orgreave/Waverley, for the new developments there and the Advanced Manufacturing Park?

It has occurred to me in the past that a partial response to the problem for a Stocksbridge service that it can't get to Sheffield Midland is to run it that way to Chesterfield, which would at least give it access to some longer distance destinations. But it'd be a horribly long way round for Leeds or Manchester, so I'm not convinced.

 

[D365]

Are they thinking of having a station at Nunnery Square, for Supertram interchange? Or Orgreave/Waverley, for the new developments there and the Advanced Manufacturing Park?

The plan (for the Stocksbridge service at least) is a Nunnery Square interchange. I was going to suggest a tram shuttle between Nunnery and Midland, but the Granville Street tram line (behind Sheffield Midland) will be moved to Pond Street as part of the "Sheffield Midland Masterplan" anyway.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

South Brent to Kingsbridge seems an unlikely candidate - I'm not aware of any revival groups (apart from the usual suspects at Campaign for Better Transport) and the local MP doesn't seem to have taken an interest. There have, however, been proposals in the past to reopen South Brent station (along with Plympton) on the mainline as part of the 'Devon Metro' - there has been quite a lot of house-building at both in recent years. The branch suffered like many by making the connection with the mainline in the middle of nowhere, rather than running to somewhere useful (i.e. Totnes). Most of the route is surprisingly intact, apart from being severed at the Brent end by the A38 and the station site in Kingsbridge is now an industrial estate.

Lostwithiel to Fowey at least has the advantage of being an operational railway, albeit the terminus in Fowey is cut short at Carne Point and some distance from the town. Revivalists never explain, however, how a passenger railway can co-exist with the working-port and the lorries on the former rail formation to St Blazey. Sadly, the Cornish China Clay industry is in serious decline so there may be an opportunity in the future. Even then, converting the St. Blazey route back to rail would be a better option - the two bus routes and main passenger flow from Fowey is towards Par and St. Austell.

 

[MarkRedon]

Might Brockenhurst to Ringwood be on the list?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Might Brockenhurst to Ringwood be on the list?

possibly added Harrogate to Ripon after I have read they have bidded for funding

 

[yoyothehobo]

Being truly honest, i think it will be a great time to be a company who does feasibility studies for this sort of thing...

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Could Lyme Regis or Sidmouth be some of them? (We are still missing 9 even with these)

 

[yoyothehobo]

Could Lyme Regis or Sidmouth be some of them? (We are still missing 9 even with these)

Does it not say how tenuous some of these are if we can not guess where would actually want one (i mean who would have guessed Carlisle to Silloth!)
If this however does a good job of separating out a few good projects from all the noise, then at least it will be worthwhile to some degree.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Being truly honest, i think it will be a great time to be a company who does feasibility studies for this sort of thing...

Quite - sort of governmental "alms" to challenged consultancies. They will almost certainly call for "further work" .... l

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Might Brockenhurst to Ringwood be on the list?

Looked at briefly in "Connecting Communities" by ATOC. Failed to make the cut from memory.

 

[steamybrian]

A mention for Uckfield- Lewes reopening which is another line on the 60 proposals submitted to the Department of Transport..
The population in the area has vastly increased since closure in 1969 with new housing at Uckfield, Crowborough etc.
The number of passengers using the Hurst Green - Uckfield line has increased rapidly over the past few years
Finally reopening the line would give another alternative route between London and the East Sussex Coast which is badly needed in times of disruption on the Brighton main line.
The trackbed has been "protected" from redevelopment by the local Council in case it was ever reopened and one mile has already been restored by the Lavender Line.

 

[Bald Rick]

The number of passengers using the Hurst Green - Uckfield line has increased rapidly over the past few years

9.5% since 2007/8, vs 44% nationwide.

 

[backontrack]

9.5% since 2007/8, vs 44% nationwide.

Maybe commuter rail growth would give a better comparison than all domestic rail growth, but I doubt such statistics are recorded.

 

[deltic08]

No I don't. I simply try to remove the irrational, emotional guff they bring to any discussion of this sort and look at what is the best use of OUR money. I get the emotional bond with this topic but that shouldn't be the basis for a decision. We also have to acknowledge ( and this is VERY hard for people here) that the train isnt the only or often best option. A new road might be better for a certain community.

I, without a railway to my settlement, am still paying for you to have and retain one at your settlement. Is that best use of my taxes?
I, who cannot drive or own a car and is ill when travelling by bus or coach, is a new road better for me than a new or reinstated railway line?
There is no irrational or emotional guff about it as you flippantly put it. It a service and necessity to many.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I, without a railway to my settlement, am still paying for you to have and retain one at your settlement. Is that best use of my taxes?
I, who cannot drive or own a car and is ill when travelling by bus or coach, is a new road better for me than a new or reinstated railway line?
There is no irrational or emotional guff about it as you flippantly put it. It a service and necessity to many.

I am sorry, that is a terrible argument. I am aware people have medical conditions and cannot drive, I have been there and done that (luckily I can drive at the moment). However, is it the best use of everyone else's taxes to ensure that you are able to get the train, because you are ill on the road? I would say most people, would either say deal with the sickness or move to a place that is nearer a rail station. We are not forced to live where we do. We all have to make sacrifices to get the life we want, or as close to as possible. The best use of your taxes may be to ensure that river flood defences work properly so they dont take out a bridge stopping you getting to the local supermarket, I dont know your situation, however. It would be interesting to know what the quantifiable best use of taxes may be, 10 Million spent 100 miles away may do more for you than 100,000 spent next door.

But I am going to hazard a guess that spending money on Carlisle to Silloth study is the best use of no ones taxes.

 

[DarloRich]

I, without a railway to my settlement, am still paying for you to have and retain one at your settlement. Is that best use of my taxes?
I, who cannot drive or own a car and is ill when travelling by bus or coach, is a new road better for me than a new or reinstated railway line?
There is no irrational or emotional guff about it as you flippantly put it. It a service and necessity to many.

This really is a silly post. What you have written above is irrational and emotional guff of the highest order. The fact you are ill on a bus is not a reason to spend millions of pounds building a railway line to a tiny city and to suggest it is is bizarre.

Further, a road might be best for your community as a whole. I accept that might not be best for YOU but you are not your community.

BTW - I don't own a car. I use on public transport for all journeys.

PS - i find it amazing how people here are keen to throw away tax payers money away on pet or vanity projects but complain about waste. Mind boggling. After this COVID crisis precious tax payers money ( that's money taken off you and me remember) is going to have to be protected and used only for the best purposes. There might be less of it to spend.

 

[Bald Rick]

I, without a railway to my settlement, am still paying for you to have and retain one at your settlement. Is that best use of my taxes?
I, who cannot drive or own a car and is ill when travelling by bus or coach, is a new road better for me than a new or reinstated railway line?
There is no irrational or emotional guff about it as you flippantly put it. It a service and necessity to many.

But, and I will try to say this as politely as possible, it’s not about you or your situation.

It’s about everyone. That’s the whole point of society and Government - to get the best result for society as a whole. And in almost all cases, that will not be a new railway. That’s why @DarloRich said *our* taxes, not *my* taxes.

 

[cactustwirly]

I, without a railway to my settlement, am still paying for you to have and retain one at your settlement. Is that best use of my taxes?
I, who cannot drive or own a car and is ill when travelling by bus or coach, is a new road better for me than a new or reinstated railway line?
There is no irrational or emotional guff about it as you flippantly put it. It a service and necessity to many.

Well you chose to live in a settlement without rail.
You have realistically 3 options if you can't use buses, either move to a place with a train station, learn to drive, or put up with the buses.

 

[deltic08]

possibly added Harrogate to Ripon after I have read they have bidded for funding

They, who ever they are, have not bid because not one of the 3 MPs on the route have supported it. The Harrogate MP has publicly stated he supports restoring Harrogate-Northallerton but privately refuses to. He supports reinstatement but not this one as it is not local to Harrogate. He must be deranged as you can't get more local than the southern end being in Harrogate.
The Skipton and Ripon MP refuses to respond to requests as does the Northallerton MP. No change there then.

Well you chose to live in a settlement without rail.
You have realistically 3 options if you can't use buses, either move to a place with a train station, learn to drive, or put up with the buses.

I chose to live in a settlement with a railway. It was taken away by Beeching's flawed accounting in 1967.
You glibly assumed I couldn't drive. I have had a driving licence since 1964 but am unable to drive at the moment following a stroke two years ago. That makes you very reliant on public transport and trains are easier to use than buses when you are in a wheelchair as you have to compete with mothers and pushchairs for one disabled space.

 

[deltic08]

But, and I will try to say this as politely as possible, it’s not about you or your situation.

It’s about everyone. That’s the whole point of society and Government - to get the best result for society as a whole. And in almost all cases, that will not be a new railway. That’s why @DarloRich said *our* taxes, not *my* taxes.

I will reply as politely as I can. "Our" or "my" taxes is splitting hairs. Those with a railway are still financed by those without a railway from taxes. I would pay less taxes and be better off if your railway was closed too and not subsidised. 30% of railway operation is still paid for out general taxation.

 

[Bald Rick]

I will reply as politely as I can. "Our" or "my" taxes is splitting hairs. Those with a railway are still financed by those without a railway from taxes. I would pay less taxes and be better off if your railway was closed too and not subsidised. 30% of railway operation is still paid for out general taxation.

We’ll have to disagree about splitting hairs.

If ‘my’ railway was closed, subsidy would go up, as it is one of the few sections of railway that is a net contributor financially, including all amortised infrastructure replacement costs.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Ideas Fund: Bids for March submitted and due to be announced in May: Second bidding in June and third in November 2020

1. Leicester-Burton
2. Stockport to Stalybridge
3. Stocksbridge-Sheffield
4. Sheffield to Chesterfield via Barrow Hill
5. Doncaster to Knottingley
6. Doncaster to Shireoaks
7. Stafford to Wellington
8. Buxton to Matlock
9. Gobowen to Oswestry
10. Rhyl to Corwen
11. Tavistock to Bere Alston
12. Tavistock to Okehampton
13. Brent to Kingsbridge
14. Heathfield to Newton Abbot
15. Stratford to Honeybourne
16. Lostwithiel to Fowey
17. Part of Northampton to Bedford
18. Uckfield to Lewes
19. Bourne End to High Wycombe
20. Sandall and Agbrigg to Barnsley
21. York to Beverley
22. Penrith to Keswick
23. Silloth to Carlisle
24. Afon-wen to Bangor
25. Totton to Fawley
26. Newport to Smallbrook Junction
27. Shanklin to Ventor
28. Burscough Curves
29. Grazebrook to Baguely
30. Shirebrook to Ollerton
31. Poulton-le-Fylde to Fleetwood (not included in the 60)
32. Harrogate to Northallerton via Ripon
33. Station: Cullompton
34. Station: Wellington
35. Station: Methley
36. Station: Little Deeping
37. Station: Donnington Road
38. Station: Standish
39. Wortley Curve
40. Devizes Parkway
41. Ironbridge branch line

Potential Bids for Ideas Fund?

• Gainsborough Central to Cleethorpes (Potentially, but guess work)
• Northampton to Market Harborough
• Sharpness to Berkeley Road (Potentially, but guess work)
• Burnley-in-Wharfedale to Weeton via Otley (potentially but guess work)
• Brokenhurst to Ringwood (Potentially but guess work)

Accelerating Existing Proposals: Separate Bidding process to the other two

1. Skipton to Colne
2. Corsham
3. Wilton Parkway
4. Northumberland Park to Ashington
5. Wisbech to March
6. Skelmersdale Spur

New Stations Fund: Separate bidding process to the other two

1. Edingswell
2. Marsh Barton

Updated: Separated into separate section so there are more bids as the 60 schemes were all ideas funds so?

 

[class26]

Ideas Fund: Bids for March submitted and due to be announced in May: Second bidding in June and third in November 2020

1. Leicester-Burton
2. Stockport to Stalybridge
3. Stocksbridge-Sheffield
4. Sheffield to Chesterfield via Barrow Hill
5. Doncaster to Knottingley
6. Doncaster to Shireoaks
7. Stafford to Wellington
8. Buxton to Matlock
9. Gobowen to Oswestry
10. Rhyl to Corwen
11. Tavistock to Bere Alston
12. Tavistock to Okehampton
13. Brent to Kingsbridge
14. Heathfield to Newton Abbot
15. Stratford to Honeybourne
16. Lostwithiel to Fowey
17. Part of Northampton to Bedford
18. Uckfield to Lewes
19. Bourne End to High Wycombe
20. Sandall and Agbrigg to Barnsley
21. York to Beverley
22. Penrith to Keswick
23. Silloth to Carlisle
24. Afon-wen to Bangor
25. Totton to Fawley
26. Newport to Smallbrook Junction
27. Shanklin to Ventor
28. Burscough Curves
29. Grazebrook to Baguely
30. Shirebrook to Ollerton
31. Poulton-le-Fylde to Fleetwood (not included in the 60)
32. Harrogate to Northallerton via Ripon
33. Station: Cullompton
34. Station: Wellington
35. Station: Methley
36. Station: Little Deeping
37. Station: Donnington Road
38. Station: Standish
39. Station: Cullompton
40. Wortley Curve
41. Devizes Parkway

Potential Bids for Ideas Fund?

• Gainsborough Central to Cleethorpes (Potentially, but guess work)
• Northampton to Market Harborough
• Sharpness to Berkeley Road (Potentially, but guess work)
• Burnley-in-Wharfedale to Weeton via Otley (potentially but guess work)
• Brokenhurst to Ringwood (Potentially but guess work)

Accelerating Existing Proposals: Separate Bidding process to the other two

1. Skipton to Colne
2. Corsham
3. Wilton Parkway
4. Northumberland Park to Ashington
5. Wisbech to March
6. Skelmersdale Spur

New Stations Fund: Separate bidding process to the other two

1. Edingswell
2. Marsh Barton

Updated: Separated into separate section so there are more bids as the 60 schemes were all ideas funds so?

I cannot see why there is a need for a Gainsborough to Cleethorpes reopening, there is already a line via Barnetby which is fairly direct.

 

[bluenoxid]

I assume that what this means is regular services on the existing line 6/7 days per week

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I cannot see why there is a need for a Gainsborough to Cleethorpes reopening, there is already a line via Barnetby which is fairly direct.

It goes via Barnetby its only used by 3tpw on a Saturday and an hourly service already runs via Gainsborough. Plus it would provide a direct connection from Gainsborough to Cleethorpes and regular services to Kirton Lindsey and Brigg.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I assume that what this means is regular services on the existing line 6/7 days per week

correct.