Fantasy: You can create your own Multiple Unit/Multiple Unit Family.

[Speed43125]

Maybe I'll make this thread accept Locomotives and coaching stock from now on!

OBB nightjet Downsized to UK loading gauge. The mk5 is so annoying with it's dellners and at the wrong height at that, but still manual cables.... so unnecessary

 

[Bletchleyite]

OBB nightjet Downsized to UK loading gauge. The mk5 is so annoying with it's dellners and at the wrong height at that, but still manual cables.... so unnecessary

As I understand it none of the autocouplers can handle hotel power, only control signals, hence the need for manual cables.

 

[popeter45]

OBB nightjet Downsized to UK loading gauge. The mk5 is so annoying with it's dellners and at the wrong height at that, but still manual cables.... so unnecessary

i would add make a batch Channel Tunnel Compliant as to open possibility of Night star services

 

[Speed43125]

As I understand it none of the autocouplers can handle hotel power, only control signals, hence the need for manual cables.

Which defeats the point of using non-standard height couplers that exclude pretty much all other traction. But yeah, they need very high ETS that already removes most locos from hauling, so maybe it's not such a huge disaster.

 

[devonexpress]

Alliance Rail Holdings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As you say, won't happen, hasn't stopped the plan going pretty far along though.

Indeed, it almost did happen, which i'm sure GWR would have prefered instead of IETs

 

[Whistler40145]

Hi, here's my slightly silly idea.

I'm certainly no artist, but...

View attachment 76847

"The Enviro Train"

I'm useless and indecisive, so I'm only able to answer a handful of the points given.

• Train class/family name: Class 796
• Replacing: Not sure! Possibly some older trains belonging to Northern, as most are currently falling apart...?
• Number of carriages: 4
• Operator(s): Northern...?
• Door Formation: Double leaf sliding pocket at ⅓ and ⅔ down the carriage
• Maximum Speed: 100 mph
• Traction System: Bi-mode

Is it smiling

 

[D365]

Indeed, it almost did happen, which i'm sure GWR would have prefered instead of IETs

Looking at the issues that ScotRail and CrossCountry have had with their Mk3 power door conversions, I think you'd be very brave to say that GWR would have preferred the Polaris option.

 

[Energy]

The carriages are still 40 years old! However much conversion happened they will still be more worn away than a new carriage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at the issues that ScotRail and CrossCountry have had with their Mk3 power door conversions, I think you'd be very brave to say that GWR would have preferred the Polaris option.

Other than the seats, which is easily fixed (and a matter of opinion anyway, I think as many people love them as hate them), I don't really see any major issue with 80x. The one thing I think they should have done was had at least one vehicle per set truly low-floor for level boarding.

So back to proposals...I guess I'd propose a low-floor InterCity train...but of course Stadler have already done that!

 

[D365]

So back to proposals...I guess I'd propose a low-floor InterCity train...but of course Stadler have already done that!

I guess that has the added advantage of removing the underfloor engines!

 

[Rick1984]

I would suggest a train for rural lines to replace classes 153,150 and Pacers bit I think the Stadler WINK would be ideal for that role

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Can I choose a locomotive family? This was something I made up for my "what if British Rail was never privatised" timeline on an alternate history forum.

"The 90s of the 90s"

Class 93: 155mph high speed locomotive designed for West Coast Mainline passenger services. Built 1993-1996 GEC-Alsthom

Class 94: A dual-cab, 140 mph variant of the 93. Used on high speed London to Birmingham services post Intercity 250 upgrade. Built 1995-1996 GEC-Alsthom

Class 95: Dual voltage loco 125mph loco designed for Bournemouth to Manchester cross country services following the electrification of BR Western Region from Oxford to Conventry. Built 1999-2001

Class 96: Co-Co heavy-haul loco designed for heavy steel traffic in North East of England. Based on the class 92 design. Built by Brush Traction 2000-2002

 

[D365]

I would suggest a train for rural lines to replace classes 153,150 and Pacers bit I think the Stadler WINK would be ideal for that role

Replace which Pacers? They’ll virtually all be gone by the end of the year.

Class 150/153 will be replaced by a cascade of newer Sprinters, Class 170s or CAF/Stadler units.

 

[AM9]

Rather than musing about the cosmetic styling of a fantasy multiple unit family, my fantasy would be that of a design that meets the following.

Central to the whole family is a common scalable traction subsystem comprising a 750VDC (nominal) bus feeding the traction electronics that drives 3 phase synchronous motors fitted to lightweight bogies of modern design e.g. sf7000/flexx-eco type. The electronic traction controllers would have full regerative braking provision, feeding energy back to the DC bus.
prime and secondary energy resources would be mechanically modular and connect to the DC bus. Units available would include:

a 25kV pantograph and transformer-rectifier module that is compatible with a regerative feed​

3rd rail DC collector shoes​

battery modules of capacity that can give range extension, limp home, or installed in sufficient quantity, complete journey range with static charging dwells where appropriate. The batteries would also be configurable to provide short term performance boost, i.e., if a route has locations where a rapid acceleration is required to maintain headway, or an isolated adverse gradient is climbed, additional energy can be provided to support the prime mover which can be sized for normal demands, (thinking of regional trains that normally amble along secondary lines with a moderate frequency, venturing onto a main line at the town/city end of their journey where the gaps are much more critical)​

diesel generator set (or other self-powered energy resources - hydrogen?) that provides on-board power to the bus on un-electrified routes. Some measure of battery capacity would be relevant her to provide boost acceleration is needed. The generator would be rated to drive all the traction motors to create a diesel electric MU.​

The above flexibility would enable:

1) a conventional EMU, powered by 25kVac OLE and/or 750VDC 3rd rail​

2) an EMU with a battery extended range onto unelectrified lines, a limp-home capacity or a power boost capability​

3) a static-charged battery train​

4) a Bi-mode (Diesel/Electric) MU​

5) a Bi-mode (Diesel/Battery) MU​

6) a DEMU, - probably with the intention of subsequent upgrading to one of the greener solutions above​

The bodies would probably need to be 23m long in order to allow sufficient undefloor space to accommodate any type of the energy resources described above. That body should be designed to be produced in three pairs of doors per side (regional/suburban layout) or two pairs per side (IC/extended regional layout). All variants should be fully interoperable, and recoverable. I would leave the styling for others to fantasise about.

 

[Rick1984]

Not a direct replacement as such, but feel there is a gap for a new regional unit. The likes of the cl170 and Civity doesn't seem that suited to some of the routes that the likes of cl150 and Pacers run on. Sometimes where infrastructure is more suited around 20m carriages.

A lightweight unit with low floor and shorter articulated carriages would seem ideal. Obviously the FLIRTS are already in this mould but the WINK would be ideal for the lesser used routes, designed to be simpler.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The WINK basically is a downrated FLIRT, isn't it? In the same sense as the Stadler Metro (why doesn't that have a silly name? ) is a downrated FLIRT built using many of the same components?

Kind of like the recreation of the GTW (Gelenktriebwagen = articulated multiple unit) using FLIRT components for standardisation?

The main problem with 170s on local routes is it is inefficient at low speeds, though I suppose a regearing to 75mph might be viable. There aren't that many routes where things have been specifically designed for 2x20m, the only one I can think of is the Marston Vale which was a spectactularly stupid and quite recent piece of design.

 

[Rick1984]

Yes WINK basically A FLIRT light. Think a mixture of FLIRTS and WINKS would be ideal on rural lines.
At the moment no one else seems to be providing anything other than conventional units for the UK market

 

[tetudo boy]

Having being inspired by the "What if British Rail was never privatised" post, I decided to make a "What if Central Trains/Silverlink and Arriva Merseyrail ordered trains earlier?" concept:

• Train class: Class 363 / Class 364
• Built: 1996-1997
• Built By: GEC-Alstom
• Replaced: Class 507, 508, 321, 310.
• Number Built: 363: 45. 364: 60.
• Number of carriages: 363: 4. 364: 3.
• Operator(s) : 363: Central Trains/Silverlink. 364: Arriva Merseyrail.
• Door Formation: ⅓-⅔
• Maximum Speed: 363: 110 Mph. 364: 90 Mph.
• Traction System: 363: 25 V 50 Hz Overhead Lines. 364: 750 V Third-Rail, 25 V 50 Hz Overhead Lines (Only used if necessary).
• Traction Motors: Brush TIM970
• Acceleration: 1.3 m/s/s

 

[Energy]

Having being inspired by the "What if British Rail was never privatised" post, I decided to make a "What if Central Trains/Silverlink and Arriva Merseyrail ordered trains earlier?" concept:

• Train class: Class 363 / Class 364
• Built: 1996-1997
• Built By: GEC-Alstom
• Replaced: Class 507, 508, 321, 310.
• Number Built: 363: 45. 364: 60.
• Number of carriages: 363: 4. 364: 3.
• Operator(s) : 363: Central Trains/Silverlink. 364: Arriva Merseyrail.
• Door Formation: ⅓-⅔
• Maximum Speed: 363: 110 Mph. 364: 90 Mph.
• Traction System: 363: 25 V 50 Hz Overhead Lines. 364: 750 V Third-Rail, 25 V 50 Hz Overhead Lines (Only used if necessary).
• Traction Motors: Brush TIM970
• Acceleration: 1.3 m/s/s

I doubt they would have ordered that early, they wouldn't be close to the end of their lives.

 

[popeter45]

here's what i would do with the FLIRT platform

class 757/0
5 cars + 1 power pack
car 1: disabled cabin behind cab (where bike storage is on 755) as well as a lounge/restaurant area taking up the rest of the car
cars 2-4: bunk bed cabins with and without en-suites
power pack between cars 4 and 5
car 5: 2 + 1 seating + dedicated Luggage/Cargo Area

Operators: Caledonia sleeper on Fort William and Aberdeen portions as well as XC on a Edinburgh to Swansea and Plymouth Service

class 757/1
4 cars + 1 power pack
car 1: disabled cabin behind cab (where bike storage is on 755) as Bunk Bed Cabins taking up the rest of the car
cars 2-3: Couchettes
power pack between cars 4 and 5
car 4: 2 + 1 seating + dedicated Luggage/Cargo Area

Operators: Various Operators on smaller lower demand Sleeper services like Euston-Holyhead, Glasgow-thurso and Plymouth-Newcastle etc

class 758
9 cars + 2 power packs
car 1: disabled cabin behind cab (where bike storage is on 755) as well as a lounge/restaurant area taking up the rest of the car
cars 2-8: bunk bed cabins with and without en-suites
power packs between cars 1 and 2 as well as cars 8 and 9
car 9: 2 + 1 seating + dedicated Luggage/Cargo Area

Operators: Caledonia sleeper on Glasgow,Edinburgh and Inverness portions as well as GWR Night Rivera

 

[HSTEd]

1. Unit end gangways
2. Full width within-unit gangways
3. 110mph speed
4. Electrodiesel and triple voltage, 25kV/1.5kVdc/750Vdc so it can make use of any electrification available, whenever it is available.

Beyond that, interior resembling a 444 or so.

 

[Domh245]

4. Electrodiesel and triple voltage, 25kV/1.5kVdc/750Vdc so it can make use of any electrification available, whenever it is available.

Are you sending it back to Woodhead pre-1970?

 

[43096]

• Train class: Class 363
• Built By: GEC-Alstom

There's only one Alst(h)om built Class 363 worth talking about!

 

[tetudo boy]

There's only one Alst(h)om built Class 363 worth talking about!
View attachment 76911

Ah, yes!

 

[devonexpress]

Looking at the issues that ScotRail and CrossCountry have had with their Mk3 power door conversions, I think you'd be very brave to say that GWR would have preferred the Polaris option.

My expectation would be a completely new train, not using anything from the original HST.

 

[HSTEd]

Are you sending it back to Woodhead pre-1970?

Well it also supports operation on the section of 1500Vdc shared with Metro on Tyneside, and opens interesting opportunities for interworking in the future.

Also having that sort of capability may be useful in future.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Having being inspired by the "What if British Rail was never privatised" post, I decided to make a "What if Central Trains/Silverlink and Arriva Merseyrail ordered trains earlier?" concept:

• Train class: Class 363 / Class 364
• Built: 1996-1997
• Built By: GEC-Alstom
• Replaced: Class 507, 508, 321, 310.
• Number Built: 363: 45. 364: 60.
• Number of carriages: 363: 4. 364: 3.
• Operator(s) : 363: Central Trains/Silverlink. 364: Arriva Merseyrail.
• Door Formation: ⅓-⅔
• Maximum Speed: 363: 110 Mph. 364: 90 Mph.
• Traction System: 363: 25 V 50 Hz Overhead Lines. 364: 750 V Third-Rail, 25 V 50 Hz Overhead Lines (Only used if necessary).
• Traction Motors: Brush TIM970
• Acceleration: 1.3 m/s/s

I doubt they would have ordered that early, they wouldn't be close to the end of their lives.

On the contrary, Network SouthEast had planned to build Networkers to replace class 321s out of Euston in the early 90s. (Class 331s-although other sources list them as class 381s) If I'm correct, the West Coast 321s would have gone to GE to replace the 312s and 309s. However I also saw that they planned to build 331s for GE as well.

 

[Rick1984]

Rambler Family

• Lightweight unit with articulated carriages. Minimum of 2 cars
• Either pure electric or with a diesel, or alternative fuel, power pack (can be removed later)
• 90mph-110mph with very high acceleration
• High quality interior with innovative lighting, use of wood effect and warm colours. Slimline seats with comfortable padding. Wireless charging
• Can be specified with a micro bistro using hi-tech technology to provide warm food
• Full width inter gangways
• Step free access
• Cab fronts based on IC3 to allow units to work in multiple
  
• Rambler Local 2 to 3 cars for light use branches. Basic interior. One double door per car side
• Rambler Regional 3 or more cars. Full spec interior. One double door per car side
• Rambler Metro 3 or more cars. Higher density, basic interior. Designed to be "wipe clean". Two double doors per car side

 

[gingertom]

Yes WINK basically A FLIRT light. Think a mixture of FLIRTS and WINKS would be ideal on rural lines.
At the moment no one else seems to be providing anything other than conventional units for the UK market

2-car Flirt with a 2-engine power pack would be ~40m long and quite sprightly too.

 

[Aictos]

• Train class/family name: Desiro City Next Generation
• Replacing: Class 465/466
• Number Built: 90
• Number of carriages: Fixed 10 Formations
• Capacity: 550 Seats / 640 Standing
• Operator(s) : SouthEastern
• Train Length: 203.4m
• Car length: 20.2m
• Width: 2.80m
• Height: 1.10 m
• Door Formation: Same as existing Desiro City Class
• Maximum Speed: 100mph
• Traction System: 25 kV 50 Hz AC Catenary / 750 V DC Third rail (5,500 hp)
• Multiple Working: Within Class and Class 700/707/717 for rescue purposes
• Extras: First Class, Onboard Wifi, Twin Power Sockets per every two seats, toilets including a accessible toilet, fold down tables on the back of the airline seating and the same CIS system as used on the Class 700s.
• May have tables per groups of 4 seats in Standard if TOC takes up option.