Fantasy: You can create your own Multiple Unit/Multiple Unit Family.

[Energy]

It could also have nine or four carriage sets. The problem is it might be a Hitachi unit and in my opinion, there are too many Hitachi IEP's, so if it were a different family, that would be cool. Maybe a Civity? But this is a fantasy thread, so I guess it's up to you.

I would go for the equivalent of a 7 car IET for most of the sets, maybe some shorter 5 car units for some of the current 170 routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It could also have nine or four carriage sets. The problem is it might be a Hitachi unit and in my opinion, there are too many Hitachi IEP's, so if it were a different family, that would be cool. Maybe a Civity? But this is a fantasy thread, so I guess it's up to you.

A "tri-mode" based on the Class 397 (with added third rail capability and diesel generators) would be a very, very nice thing indeed for XC. I don't know if you've been on one, but they are the closest thing to a Mk1 in terms of comfort and passenger amenity that we've seen in a long, long time.

 

[Whistler40145]

A "tri-mode" based on the Class 397 (with added third rail capability and diesel generators) would be a very, very nice thing indeed for XC. I don't know if you've been on one, but they are the closest thing to a Mk1 in terms of comfort and passenger amenity that we've seen in a long, long time.

That would be an ideal solution for XC, especially if electrifying lines currently used are delayed or even postponed

 

[tetudo boy]

A "tri-mode" based on the Class 397 (with added third rail capability and diesel generators) would be a very, very nice thing indeed for XC. I don't know if you've been on one, but they are the closest thing to a Mk1 in terms of comfort and passenger amenity that we've seen in a long, long time.

Yes! That what I was thinking about! Thank you!

 

[tetudo boy]

Yes! That what I was thinking about! Thank you!

It might also need a slightly longer nose to make it more aerodynamic.

 

[D365]

You should also consider having nine or four carriage sets to deal with intense and unacceptable overcrowding problems on CrossCountry services. The problem is it might be a Hitachi unit and in my opinion, there are too many Hitachi IEP's, so if it were a different family, that would be cool. Maybe a Civity? But this is a fantasy thread, so I guess it's up to you.

Anything less than five cars on a modern day InterCity unit is unacceptable, frankly.

 

[Whistler40145]

Anything less than five cars on a modern day InterCity unit is unacceptable, frankly.

Indeed

 

[tetudo boy]

Anything less than five cars on a modern day InterCity unit is unacceptable, frankly.

The four cars could be an extension to five car set's, they could run on less populated lines or being second-handed regional trains too.

 

[Whistler40145]

The four cars could be an extension to five car set's and they could also run on less populated lines such as being second-handed regional trains too.

If carriages are easily able to be marshalled into a set, then that’s a bonus

 

[tetudo boy]

Maybe Loco-hauled Mk5a's with class 93 tri-mode units for CrossCountry too? (I explained the concept of ordering more set's for the class 93's on another thread since there are only 10 available.)

 

[43096]

My effort uses various elements from standard Stadler products to create a better electro-diesel InterCity train - in other words what IEP should have been.

The passenger accommodation uses the FLIRT sets that Greater Anglia are introducing which have power equipment at each end and in the middle of the 12-car sets. For a short set, you'd use one a "half set" with a driving cab at one end. For a full set, you'd use a full set but with no cabs - just traction equipment at each end.

To provide the diesel element, I'd have a power car at each end (on a long set) or one end (on a short set). It would be a derivative of the Class 68, but single cabbed and maximum speed of 125mph. To keep weight down only one bogie would have traction motors with power being fed to the motors in the middle of the set. Likewise, under 25kV power would be fed from the transformer(s) to power the motors under the power cars.

So there you have it: an InterCity train that is flexible, has better passenger accommodation (low floor/level boarding before I even get to the seats), no under-floor engines and rateable diesel power for the enthusiast. What's not to like?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So there you have it: an InterCity train that is flexible, has better passenger accommodation (low floor/level boarding before I even get to the seats), no under-floor engines and rateable diesel power for the enthusiast. What's not to like?

The issue with stuff above the floor is that it makes poor use of platform length. That's as true of the FLIRT which "wastes" more space above the floor than a Voyager does by quite some margin. The upside though is the low-floor aspect, the benefit of which may well outweigh the waste of length.

One thing I don't get, though, is why we haven't seen the 33+REP/TC model used instead of lugging the diesels around while on electricity. It was briefly used for Pendolinos using 57s, but these weren't really well designed for the purpose.

 

[43096]

One thing I don't get, though, is why we haven't seen the 33+REP/TC model used instead of lugging the diesels around while on electricity. It was briefly used for Pendolinos using 57s, but these weren't really well designed for the purpose.

There's probably a million reasons "why not" on the railway, rather than looking at the benefits. It comes down to the MDTR* not being able to cope with anything different.

* Modern Dynamic Thrusting Railway (yes, it's ironic...)

 

[D365]

Maybe Loco-hauled Mk5a's with class 93 tri-mode units for CrossCountry too? (I explained the concept of ordering more set's for the class 93's on another thread since there are only 10 available.)

Class 93s are pretty fictional themselves at the moment; the supposed Rail Operations Group order hasn't shown up.

 

[tetudo boy]

My effort uses various elements from standard Stadler products to create a better electro-diesel InterCity train - in other words what IEP should have been.

The passenger accommodation uses the FLIRT sets that Greater Anglia are introducing which have power equipment at each end and in the middle of the 12-car sets. For a short set, you'd use one a "half set" with a driving cab at one end. For a full set, you'd use a full set but with no cabs - just traction equipment at each end.

To provide the diesel element, I'd have a power car at each end (on a long set) or one end (on a short set). It would be a derivative of the Class 68, but single cabbed and maximum speed of 125mph. To keep weight down only one bogie would have traction motors with power being fed to the motors in the middle of the set. Likewise, under 25kV power would be fed from the transformer(s) to power the motors under the power cars.

So there you have it: an InterCity train that is flexible, has better passenger accommodation (low floor/level boarding before I even get to the seats), no under-floor engines and rateable diesel power for the enthusiast. What's not to like?

What TOC Would it go to then?

 

[43096]

What TOC Would it go to then?

Great Western, LNER (IEP contracts terminated due to Hitachi non-performance - this is fantasy, right?!), EMR (Hitachi order cancelled), XC.

There would also be a straight electric version without power cars for use where routes are fully electrified.

 

[tetudo boy]

Great Western, LNER (IEP contracts terminated due to Hitachi non-performance - this is fantasy, right?!), EMR (Hitachi order cancelled), XC.

There would also be a straight electric version without power cars for use where routes are fully electrified.

Well... at least you have a point!

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Hi, here's my slightly silly idea.

I'm certainly no artist, but...



"The Enviro Train"

I'm useless and indecisive, so I'm only able to answer a handful of the points given.

• Train class/family name: Class 796
• Replacing: Not sure! Possibly some older trains belonging to Northern, as most are currently falling apart...?
• Number of carriages: 4
• Operator(s): Northern...?
• Door Formation: Double leaf sliding pocket at ⅓ and ⅔ down the carriage
• Maximum Speed: 100 mph
• Traction System: Bi-mode

 

[D365]

• Train class/family name: Class 796
• Replacing: Not sure! Possibly some older trains belonging to Northern, as most are currently falling apart...?
• Number of carriages: 4
• Operator(s): Northern...?
• Door Formation: Double leaf sliding pocket at ⅓ and ⅔ down the carriage
• Maximum Speed: 100 mph
• Traction System: Bi-mode

Definitely sounds like the sort of thing that Northern should be looking into this decade. For example, a four car bi-mode unit could replace a pair of two car Class 195s. These could then be used to replaced two car Sprinters on rural routes.

 

[tetudo boy]

Hi, here's my slightly silly idea.

I'm certainly no artist, but...

View attachment 76847

"The Enviro Train"

I'm useless and indecisive, so I'm only able to answer a handful of the points given.

• Train class/family name: Class 796
• Replacing: Not sure! Possibly some older trains belonging to Northern, as most are currently falling apart...?
• Number of carriages: 4
• Operator(s): Northern...?
• Door Formation: Double leaf sliding pocket at ⅓ and ⅔ down the carriage
• Maximum Speed: 100 mph
• Traction System: Bi-mode

YES! YES!!!! THIS IS WHAT WE WANT!!!!!!! (Excuse my exaggeration!)

 

[Energy]

Definitely sounds like the sort of thing that Northern should be looking into this decade. For example, a four car bi-mode unit could replace a pair of two car Class 195s. These could then be used to replaced two car Sprinters on rural routes.

CAF do offer bimodes, bimode civitys have been suggested quite a few times before, they would make a lot of sense at Northern and elsewhere like GWR.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Northern are sort of getting some - EMUs converted to battery power for Windermere and possibly Barrow, this is being done by adding an extra vehicle with batteries.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Train Class: Class 173
Family: SolarStar (as they would run along the sunny Sussex coast on the DC with solar panels on the roof charging up batteries for working between Hastings and Ashford
Replacing Class 313 on Southern Coastway and displacing Turbostar 171's to strengthen Uckfield line
Number built: 35 - 40
Number of carriages: 4 and able to double up for busier diagrams
Operator: Southern
Route of operation: Ashford to Hastings and Southern Coastway
Maximum speed: 75mph
Traction system: 3rd rail DC as far as Hastings, then batteries to Ashford charged by solar panels on the roofs.
Dellnar coupling for emergency rescue
2+ 2 seating throughout

 

[Energy]

Maximum speed: 75mph

I would go for 90 or 100.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I would go for 90 or 100.

That is not going to be possible along the South Coast! And certainly not on the Marshlink...

 

[tetudo boy]

Train Class: Class 173
Family: SolarStar (as they would run along the sunny Sussex coast on the DC with solar panels on the roof charging up batteries for working between Hastings and Ashford
Replacing Class 313 on Southern Coastway and displacing Turbostar 171's to strengthen Uckfield line
Number built: 35 - 40
Number of carriages: 4 and able to double up for busier diagrams
Operator: Southern
Route of operation: Ashford to Hastings and Southern Coastway
Maximum speed: 75mph
Traction system: 3rd rail DC as far as Hastings, then batteries to Ashford charged by solar panels on the roofs.
Dellnar coupling for emergency rescue
2+ 2 seating throughout

Good, but you should probably consider using Batteries in cases where it isn't sunny and changing the speed to 100 mph.

 

[D365]

Good, but you should probably consider using Batteries in cases where it isn't sunny and changing the speed to 100 mph.

There's several lines in that post where it is stated that the solar panels are used to charge the batteries.

And 100mph is very likely to be uneconomical with the added mass of the batteries, solar panels and charging/cooling equipment. In fact, it would be a push to get a top speed of 75mph on battery operation.

 

[devonexpress]

Class 805, 9 Car IET but with the following changes. The kitchen in the First Class area removed, and GWR HST style First Class seats installed, a kitchen/buffet shop in between First & Standard. The Standard Class end being halved to make way for a Guard's van area, to store bicycles, heavy luggage, Train Managers office. The area which was once bicycle storage made into additional luggage space or fold down seating for busy periods.

*Yeah I know, it won't happen* Ideally I'd like to see a HST2, a bit like the new routemaster, but for a HST.

 

[Speed43125]

*Yeah I know, it won't happen* Ideally I'd like to see a HST2, a bit like the new routemaster, but for a HST.

Alliance Rail Holdings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As you say, won't happen, hasn't stopped the plan going pretty far along though.

 

[tetudo boy]

Maybe I'll make this thread accept Locomotives and coaching stock from now on!