Just how big is the “business types on expenses” market? Many companies have a standard class only travel policy.
The majority of passengers who use the dining services generally are those on large saleries or expenses. It's either on their way to or from work,meetings or entertaining clients and they are willing to pay for this service. For others it's the convieniance or experience of on board dining.
Are these statements based on fact, in other words on published data which has been verified?
Isn't that part of the reason the service is offered to potential customers? To make train travel more attractive?
I don't alltogether disagree, which is no doubt one reason why such provisions are not available on routes such as Bristols and Cardiffs. But I have always felt the far west country routes offer a slightly different type of service, and typically attract a different type of traveller, and on those I think a Pullman is well justified, but it has always been for an added first class experience, rather than for any profit. Of course for those who do not wish to dine, there are plenty of other first class seats available, as the restaurant itself is quite small. Whilst I would love to see Swansea services offer Pullman lunch and dinner (Dinner on the 18.15 Carmarthen first stop Bristol Parkway), I realise this is more a fantasy, but could the kitchens nonetheless be put to some reasonable use on other routes? They are, I am told, exceptionally good kitchens after all!I'm about to do a hot take (pun not intended), so be aware!
Obviously, I love the idea of hot food and some nice dining on a train, but I don't see it making much economic sense in a way.
Many passengers just want to get from A to B as fast and cheaply as possible. If that means stopping off at pret or WhSmith for some Coffee and a sandwich to eat on the train, so be it. Some want a bit more comfort and quiet to work in, so pay for first class. Yes, some want warm food on the train, but frankly it probably isn't enough to warrant all the space needed for a kitchen.
Right now, the limiting factors for UK rail is mostly capacity, not hot food provision. Until this is resolved, I don't see the food situation getting any better.
Plus, modern stock is expensive, built for high speed, bi-mode operation and getting from A to B asap. That seems to be the priority over interior comforts. If carriages weren't so darn expensive, perhaps more space would be given to dining. But for now, if that space can be used for seats that will be filled with a quite high capacity factor, that seems to be the way forward.
It's a bit like a conversation I had with someone on Facebook the other day about big planes such as the A380 and 747. I too like them and would love to see more, however the future is 777's, A350's and crossing the Atlantic in a narrowbody. It's boring, and definitely not as good, but that's just the economics of the industry
Unfortunately I don't think there is much demand for morning Pullmans out of London. Currently there is only one mid-morning dining service, offering brunch on the 10.48 to Swansea as a return working for the 05.58 up service. This service, though supposedly growing, is never particularly full. There had also been a brunch service on the 10.06 to Penzance, a return working of a second breakfast service from Plymouth, though both now withdrawn.
I think it is obvious he has not carried out a survey, but was merely reflecting what others (including me) have said about kitchens on 5 car 800s being wasteful as they never get used. Not an unreasonable comment.
Yes,a toaster,microwave (handy for your lunch),2 big ovens and a four ring hob. The only things used on normal services are the fridges for drinks and sandwiches, coffee machine and boiler and finally the cupboard area for the Atlas carts. Add to that the large sinks ,worktop and staff lockers inc. the ones for the cleaning materials and EPOS. That's a lot of stuff!
That would result in a large loss of capacity though. I’m sure that the area where the kitchen is can’t be used for passenger accommodation
Indeed I worked for such a company: but the advantage of the Pullman is that it is not part of the first class offering, so I travelled with a standard class ticket and used my not very good company meal allowance to subsidise a very good meal in the Pullman. That kept everyone happy.
I often wondered about this too, as it would also make it easier to provide a better catering service for standard class: but I suppose that it reduces the flexibility to change the capacity of first class in the future if there is a very expensively fixed barrier between the classes.
No, I didn't miss that bit. I am well aware of what the kitchens contain, as well as their use as a crew area. I am saying that it is a shame that all that equipment gets lugged around all day for no good reason. I would love to see them used more and to their full potential.
I coudn't agree more. The kitchens themselves are apparently some of the best, and it a shame to see them currently largely unused. I hope a decent catering offering can be created, even if it isn't necessarily Pullman, although I do wonder if Pullman can be extended to Swansea services as well? As for standard class catering, ok the buffet has gone, rightly or wrongly, that was the decision, whilst its substitute doesn't offer the same quality service in my opinion, and it seems GWR are reluctant to explore options with it. But ordering via an app could potentially be successful, though they would have to get round a few logistical issues first.
This was ideal on HSTs ,however such a narrow passageway past the kitchen area would not be allowed under the disability laws. Remember,you may have to evacuate through it.
And look how wide those connections are on modern stock.
Nearly everyday and they are wider than the HST kitchen passageway.
How many diagrams are required to run the hourly Paddington-Plymouth/Penzance fasts (which I assume include the Pullman services)?
I agree, particularly that 'railway catering should be actively desirable'. If passengers could rely on getting a decent breakfast or evening meal on board that would be a hugely helpful service which could help attract passengers to the railway. If making a long journey across Britain to start a holiday, it may well be too late to find an evening meal by the time you reach your destination. Going to bed without a nice cooked meal isn't a great way to start a holiday. This is a service that should be available to standard class passengers, ideally with a menu that is not too fancy so that it can be priced at a level the majority of standard class passengers can consider affordable, not just in first. The difficultly is either keeping passenger's seats and luggage safe so that they can get to a buffet to buy food or finding a way of providing an at-seat hot food service throughout the train without excessive staffing costs.
Out of interest before I reply what do you consider to be the "affordable price range" for such a meal?
