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When will someone do something about CrossCountry

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td97

td97

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Meerkat said:
How does Bournemouth-Manchester compare to SW-NE
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The most optimistic electric running sections of existing routes are as follows; ordered descending mileage. Generally assumes capacity available on 25kV OLE, changeover on the move at Didcot (as per GWR 800s) and Bromsgrove, no OLE usage at Bristol Parkway, and no 3rd rail running:
  • Glasgow - Plymouth:
    • Glasgow Central - York = 261 miles + Leeds - Wakefield Westgate = 10 miles + Birmingham - Bromsgrove = 14 miles
  • Newcastle - Southampton:
    • Newcastle - Doncaster = 112 miles + Didcot East Jn - Reading = 17 miles. (3rd rail Basingstoke - Southampton = 21 miles)
  • Manchester - Bournemouth:
    • Manchester - Coventry = 101 miles + Didcot East Jn - Reading = 17 miles. (3rd rail Basingstoke - Bournemouth = 60 miles).
  • Manchester - Bristol/West Country:
    • Manchester - New St = 82 miles
If Avanti can have new bimodes to reduce diesel running on the 158 miles from Euston to Crewe (for Chester), then so can XC.
 
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RailUK Forums

VT 390

VT 390

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td97 said:
The most optimistic electric running sections of existing routes are as follows; ordered descending mileage. Generally assumes capacity available on 25kV OLE, changeover on the move at Didcot (as per GWR 800s) and Bromsgrove, no OLE usage at Bristol Parkway, and no 3rd rail running:
  • Glasgow - Plymouth:
    • Glasgow Central - York = 261 miles + Leeds - Wakefield Westgate = 10 miles + Birmingham - Bromsgrove = 14 miles
  • Newcastle - Southampton:
    • Newcastle - Doncaster = 112 miles + Didcot East Jn - Reading = 17 miles. (3rd rail Basingstoke - Southampton = 21 miles)
  • Manchester - Bournemouth:
    • Manchester - Coventry = 101 miles + Didcot East Jn - Reading = 17 miles. (3rd rail Basingstoke - Bournemouth = 60 miles).
  • Manchester - Bristol/West Country:
    • Manchester - New St = 82 miles
If Avanti can have new bimodes to reduce diesel running on the 158 miles from Euston to Crewe (for Chester), then so can XC.
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One thing which would need to be done for those distances to work would be for the fast lines south of Kings Norton to just after Longbridge to be electrified.
 
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Meerkat

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td97 said:
The most optimistic electric running sections of existing routes are as follows; ordered descending mileage. Generally assumes capacity available on 25kV OLE, changeover on the move at Didcot (as per GWR 800s) and Bromsgrove, no OLE usage at Bristol Parkway, and no 3rd rail running:
  • Glasgow - Plymouth:
    • Glasgow Central - York = 261 miles + Leeds - Wakefield Westgate = 10 miles + Birmingham - Bromsgrove = 14 miles
  • Newcastle - Southampton:
    • Newcastle - Doncaster = 112 miles + Didcot East Jn - Reading = 17 miles. (3rd rail Basingstoke - Southampton = 21 miles)
  • Manchester - Bournemouth:
    • Manchester - Coventry = 101 miles + Didcot East Jn - Reading = 17 miles. (3rd rail Basingstoke - Bournemouth = 60 miles).
  • Manchester - Bristol/West Country:
    • Manchester - New St = 82 miles
If Avanti can have new bimodes to reduce diesel running on the 158 miles from Euston to Crewe (for Chester), then so can XC.
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thanks - are there any diesel bits where 80x would struggle to keep time? I am guessing Sheffield-Birmingham and Banbury-Didcot?
 
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klass43

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Meerkat said:
Why 810s - do XC need the shorter trains or is this about power?
How does Bournemouth-Manchester compare to SW-NE - which would be a priority for bimode, which would be a struggle to maintain speed on the diesel bits?
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It's not about shorter trains or power essentially. The 5 car units can be coupled together in pairs, just like some on the MML almost certainly will be.

The diesel section between Penzance/Plymouth - Bristol/Birmingham is limited to 100mph max (due to half barrier level crossings) and the 810s could be built to 802 specs simply by fitting more powerful engines and larger fuel tanks. Electric mode: 125mph, diesel mode 110 mph.

So the trains would have more carriages and due to better acceleration characteristics than the Voyagers and HSTs would lose limited time IMO on the 125mph sections of track without OLE.
 
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Meerkat

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klass43 said:
It's not about shorter trains or power essentially. The 5 car units can be coupled together in pairs, just like some on the MML almost certainly will be.

The diesel section between Penzance/Plymouth - Bristol/Birmingham is limited to 100mph max (due to half barrier level crossings) and the 810s could be built to 802 specs simply by fitting more powerful engines and larger fuel tanks. Electric mode: 125mph, diesel mode 110 mph.

So the trains would have more carriages and due to better acceleration characteristics than the Voyagers and HSTs would lose limited time IMO on the 125mph sections of track without OLE.
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I think you missed my point - 810s are 24m coaches rather than 26m. Does XC need the shorter coaches?
Can 8xx on diesel really out accelerate a Voyager?
 
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gingertom

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Meerkat said:
I think you missed my point - 810s are 24m coaches rather than 26m. Does XC need the shorter coaches?
Can 8xx on diesel really out accelerate a Voyager?
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remember the 810s are planned to have 4 diesel engines so are planned to be 125mph on diesel as well.
 
krus_aragon

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Working on the assumption that Crosscountry wil lend up with all the 22x units, with many diagrams operated by doubled-up units...

Would there be any value in splitting these services at the edges of the XC network, to reintroduce some of the through services that were withdrawn post-Princess? Examples could include splitting at Bristol Parkway for a portion to Swansea, or splitting at Crewe for a portion to Liverpool.

(Tangentially, I've just noticed that XC's route map shows a new inland route from Crewe to Holyhead, going via Wrexham and through Snowdonia from the look of things!)
 
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Anonymous10

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krus_aragon said:
Working on the assumption that Crosscountry wil lend up with all the 22x units, with many diagrams operated by doubled-up units...

Would there be any value in splitting these services at the edges of the XC network, to reintroduce some of the through services that were withdrawn post-Princess? Examples could include splitting at Bristol Parkway for a portion to Swansea, or splitting at Crewe for a portion to Liverpool.

(Tangentially, I've just noticed that XC's route map shows a new inland route from Crewe to Holyhead, going via Wrexham and through Snowdonia from the look of things!)
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It would be nice if they did
 
greatvoyager

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Bletchleyite said:
Or just that it'll be a good while before they're available?
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That could be the case.
Either the Avanti 221s and EMR 222s are due to be replaced from 2022, it seems quite parallel and I think it would be wise to look at both, even if they have competition with them with the Virgin OAO.
 
Jorge Da Silva

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Bletchleyite said:
Perhaps Virgin (the OAO) has snaffled them first.
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The plans have been scrapped so 221’s are still a possibility. HST’s were ruled out a few months ago apparently

https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/42571/open-access-application-withdrawal-2020-02-27.pdf

[URL]https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/dft-and-crosscountry-rule-out-surplus-hst%E2%80%99s-as-a-capacity-relief.194180/[/URL]

London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street Open Access Application
The Battleship Building 179 Harrow Road London
W2 6NB
27 February 2020
Thank you for granting an extension of time for us to give further consideration to and evaluation of our open access application for the above services. As a long standing operator in UK Rail, we have valued our relationship with your organisation and we do appreciate the flexibility you have provided us with.
We consider that with the Williams Review still not having been published, there remains considerable uncertainty that at this time, we had originally hoped would have been much clearer.
Consequently, and after much consideration, we have decided to suspend our application at this time, to which end, please regard this letter as formal notification of our decision to withdraw our application at this stage. At the same time, we remain committed to this railway and would look to consider re-applying in the future, once we have seen the outcome and understand the impact of the Williams Review.
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greatvoyager

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swt_passenger

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greatvoyager said:
I find it interesting that despite becoming available at roughly the same time as the 222s, Avanti's 221s aren't mentioned at all.
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There’s two aspects to Rails article. Firstly, the report of what’s been announced by DfT last month, (a few 170 centre cars and more use of the existing HSTs), and secondly Rail’s speculation about what might happen later.

I expect Rail’s speculation may be no better or worse than anyone else’s, as seen in these forums for the last few months, so I wouldn’t be stating anything to do with 221 or 222 as fact yet...
 
greatvoyager

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swt_passenger said:
There’s two aspects to Rails article. Firstly, the report of what’s been announced by DfT last month, (a few 170 centre cars and more use of the existing HSTs), and secondly Rail’s speculation about what might happen later.

I expect Rail’s speculation may be no better or worse than anyone else’s, as seen in these forums for the last few months, so I wouldn’t be stating anything to do with 221 or 222 as fact yet...
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I get that, I was just a bit surprised that 221s aren't mention in the article, speculation or not.
 
43096

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squizzler said:
No need to ask anybody else if you want some new trains and you can find a leasing company that is game.
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If it’s a franchised operator, then there is. DfT have to sign off any changes to a franchise including changes to the train fleet.
 
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Mitchell Hurd

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If XC do get the Class 222 Meridan's, which are a bit newer than the Voyagers, (220's built around 2001, 221's in 2002 and 222's in 2003-2005) then how much training would be required given the slight difference?

One thing about the 222's that would be great is the non-driving vehicles are longer.

In my opinion, reform as many of the 4 and 5-car 222's into 7-car sets and passengers will be happy. It would be nice if the Manchester services get a few 222's on here.

This is if 222's come to CrossCountry.
 
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