Delay repay Branksome to Warminster involving SWR & GWR

[Adsy125]

Recently I attempted to make a journey from Branksome to Warminster, using SWR and GWR services. There was severe disruption on the day I travelled, and I ended up on a taxi from Bournemouth-Southampton and another one Southampton-Salisbury! Followed by a train to Warminster. The taxi from SWR made it to Southampton in time for me not to miss the GWR service, had it been running, so I submitted a delay repay claim to GWR, for the 2+ hour delay experienced.

Here it gets interesting. GWR at first replied saying that they didn't cause the delay and decided to forward it to SWR for me, and I appealed to GWR as they caused the actual delay (no response just yet) SWR however have replied rejecting the claim, saying the ticket wasn't valid for the journey I made, however it certainly was. I was further delayed on the return another day, but only by 30 minutes this time.

Should I appeal SWRs response to the claim, as the reason they rejected it was wrong, or just wait for GWR. And do I apply for delay repay for the return as well, or not bother as I could get nothing if I get a full refund for the outward journey. I'm thinking if I wait to long to apply then I could miss the opportunity of the return money if for whatever reason they decide against me and a further appeal is unsuccessful.

Another question, if I won my appeal to SWR and GWR, would they both pay or is there some way for train companies to know that a 100% claim has already been made for that ticket. This is obviously a situation I want to avoid being in due to it being fraud (I assume).

Thanks

 

[yorkie]

Can you post the full itinerary of your intended journey please?

And below this can you post the actual timings of what happened on the day?

The first company who causes a delay should pay out. If it's clear and obvious which company caused the delay then it should be straightforward (any other company causing further delay does not affect the liability if the first one caused a delay)

Where it gets difficult is where it is not clear and obvious which company caused the delay; there are some complex threads where disputes have occurred recently.

 

[crablab]

I was further delayed on the return another day, but only by 30 minutes this time.

I assume this is a separate claim for the purposes of this question?

Should I appeal SWRs response to the claim, as the reason they rejected it was wrong, or just wait for GWR.

You should claim delay repay from whoever caused the delay, so it sounds like GWR here. Although SWR rejected your claim for the wrong reasons, it seems as though you shouldn't have claimed from them in the first place!

And do I apply for delay repay for the return as well

Why not? You're entitled to it

 

[yorkie]

You should claim delay repay from whoever caused the delay, so it sounds like GWR here. Although SWR rejected your claim for the wrong reasons, it seems as though you shouldn't have claimed from them in the first place!

Yes my view is that if SWR did not cause a GWR service to be missed, and if subsequent delays occurred on GWR which resulted in a delay into the final destination, then it sounds like GWR should be paying out.

If it was me I'd ignore the SWR correspondence and chase GWR. Once I became in 'deadlock' with GWR I would refer the matter to the Rail Ombudsman: https://www.railombudsman.org/making-a-complaint/start-a-complaint/

... I was further delayed on the return another day, but only by 30 minutes this time.

Should I appeal SWRs response to the claim, as the reason they rejected it was wrong, or just wait for GWR. And do I apply for delay repay for the return as well, or not bother as I could get nothing if I get a full refund for the outward journey.....

Ah, that's a whole debate in itself! Which company caused the 30 minute delay to your return leg?

 

[Hadders]

Why not? You're entitled to it

I think the maximum that can be paid is the cost of the ticket so if you claim 100% of the cost for a 2+ hour delay for one portion of the journey you cannot claim anything if delayed on the other portion.

You’d probably get away with it if the claim is from two separate companies but not if it’s the same one.

 

[yorkie]

I think the maximum that can be paid is the cost of the ticket so if you claim 100% of the cost for a 2+ hour delay for one portion of the journey you cannot claim anything if delayed on the other portion.

You’d probably get away with it if the claim is from two separate companies but not if it’s the same one.

We had some recent threads about this.

If it was me, I would hold off claiming for the return portion for now, to avoid potentially complicating the claim for the outward portion.

It's unclear if you can claim for the return portion, where you were delayed by 120+ minutes on the outward portion. We had some threads about this issue recently, e.g.:

• https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/delay-repay-on-both-legs-of-return.194516/
• https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ith-lengthy-delays-in-both-directions.174160/

Part of the debate surrounds an argument over whether or not Delay Repay is deemed a "refund" (in which case it would arguably be capped at 100% of the cost of a Return fare) or "compensation" (in which case there is an argument to say that the level of compensation could stretch beyond the cost of a Return fare); this was debated at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/delay-repay-compensation-or-a-refund.195726/ , though the rail industry generally appears to treat Delay Repay as compensation which is a separate concept to a refund.

I'm sure we've had more threads on this issue recently, but they are difficult to find.

I have not yet seen a full specification for Delay Repay which could answer such queries definitively; there are several aspects to Delay Repay which appear to be ambiguous and subject to interpretation.

 

[Adsy125]

Thank you all for the quick replies!

Yes my view is that if SWR did not cause a GWR service to be missed, and if subsequent delays occurred on GWR which resulted in a delay into the final destination, then it sounds like GWR should be paying out.

If it was me I'd ignore the SWR correspondence and chase GWR. Once I became in 'deadlock' with GWR I would refer the matter to the Rail Ombudsman: https://www.railombudsman.org/making-a-complaint/start-a-complaint/

Thank you Yorkie, SWR definitely didn’t cause me to miss my connection, there was a long connection time, and then I even got on the GWR service before they announced it was cancelled.

Ah, that's a whole debate in itself! Which company caused the 30 minute delay to your return leg?

GWR again, I’m thinking that I agree with your later advice not to claim to avoid causing any complication. In addition the return portion of the ticket got stuck to the outward, which would make a claim on that part of the ticket even more complex.

You should claim delay repay from whoever caused the delay, so it sounds like GWR here. Although SWR rejected your claim for the wrong reasons, it seems as though you shouldn't have claimed from them in the first place!

I didn’t claim from SWR! GWR forwarded the claim to SWR without asking me, although I believe incorrectly.

Thanks again to everyone who replied, seems like I just need to hold tight waiting for my appeal decision.

 

[Adsy125]

Unfortunately GWR rejected it, but I have an opportunity to further appeal, any suggestions?

GWR said ‘Our Systems show you have already claimed you were travelling on a different service at this time.’ Which I don’t understand, unless it is to do with the fact it was forwarded to SWR.

 

[ValleyLines142]

GWR have got an awful habit of passing on the buck to other TOCs for delay repay. Last year I travelled from Brighton to Cardiff via Gatwick and Reading, the Gatwick to Reading leg was delayed and I missed the connecting train to Cardiff and despite me clearly specifying which service was delayed they still passed the buck onto GTR, even though (for once!) their service was on time!

 

[trebor79]

Here it gets interesting. GWR at first replied saying that they didn't cause the delay and decided to forward it to SWR for me, and I appealed to GWR as they caused the actual delay (no response just yet) SWR however have replied rejecting the claim, saying the ticket wasn't valid for the journey I made, however it certainly was.

Worth checking what GWR actually sent to SWR. I had similar with 2 TOCs recently, the claimed passed from GA to EMR. EMR sent me a cryptic email saying the journey wasn't valid. It was only when I logged into their delay repay site using the reference number in the email that I could see that when GA passed it to them, they entered it as a single leg journey rather than the three leg journey that it was. Unsurprisingly, the system said Attleborough - Sleaford direct was an invalid journey!

 

[Parallel]

I travelled from Salisbury to Cwmbran before; the GWR train was running about 9 minutes late and I missed the connecting Holyhead train. I submitted the claim and GWR rejected it saying another TOC was responsible for the delay, however the TfW trains had been on time. I appealed and added a bit more information in and it was approved. Still annoying though.