Caledonian Sleeper

[Mathew S]

The very, very late Highlander passed through Wigan 10/15 mins ago, at about 1055.NNot what I expected to see this morning!

Edit: and here it is stopped in Crewe at 1135:

 

[Peter Sarf]

Interesting bit of mis-information at Euston last night. I was looking at the Northbound Highlander at approx 20:15 and the coach side indicators were wrong. Inverness was at the North end but not showing as via Perth. Then I noticed via Kirkaldy and Dundee. So I scratched my senile head thinking I am losing geography. Convinced myself Dundee was on the way to Aberdeen which was not on the via list so decided to ask a member of staff. A few minutes later the displays changed to Inverness being at the rear with the correct via Aviemore etc.

Am I right in thinking the Northbound Inverness portion used to be at the North end of the train but nowadays is at the South end ?.

Interesting that the via points don't automatically get paired with the destination.

On a positive note I think the stock must be getting quite reliable as last nights (Fri 31/01/202) Northbound formations have hardly changed since 06/01/2020 (25 days). There was only one coach different in the 32 coaches I saw last night. Coach 15316 has replaced coach 15309 in last nights NB lowlander. Coach 15316 has been added to last nights NB Lowlander.

Some questions :-
I have not noticed 15001, 15301, 15302 and 15336 getting used yet - anyone else recorded them in use ?.
I assume 15104 might still be on the FortWilliam to/from Edinburgh unless 15106 has left Polmadie to swap with it.
Is the lightly used 15340 still collision damaged at Polmadie ?.
The above questions are based on my own observations and also some reports.

 

[JonathanH]

Am I right in thinking the Northbound Inverness portion used to be at the North end of the tran but nowadays is at the South end ?.

No, other way round - Inverness portion used to be at the south end of the train leaving Euston so that all that needed to happen at Edinburgh was for a locomotive to back on to the 8-coach half-set after splitting and it could leave. It is now at the North end of the train leaving Euston so leaves from the middle of the formation at Edinburgh.

I assume 15104 might still be on the FortWilliam to/from Edinburgh unless 15106 has left Polmadie to swap with it.

Gen group posting this morning suggests 15101 and 15006 are the Fort William 'day coaches' at the moment.

I have not noticed 15001, 15301, 15302 and 15336 getting used yet - anyone else recorded them in use ?

Still not in use by passengers.

 

[Peter Sarf]

No, other way round - Inverness portion used to be at the south end of the train leaving Euston so that all that needed to happen at Edinburgh was for a locomotive to back on to the 8-coach half-set after splitting and it could leave. It is now at the North end of the train leaving Euston so leaves from the middle of the formation at Edinburgh.

.....

Ah so when I saw the displays corrected the side effect was reversed formation. Makes me wonder if the via points information has been wrong ever since the Inverness portion was switched to the front of the Northbound

Any news on 15340, how bad ?, when back in service ?.

I guess the other 153xx will be easier to get into service.

 

[alangla]

And it’s reached Euston. 1422, 395 late.
Given GBRf are presumably going to be on the hook for an astronomical delay claim from Avanti, Trans Pennine & various freight operators, when does the point come where parking a manned 92 at somewhere like Carlisle every night makes economic sense?

 

[JonathanH]

when does the point come where parking a manned 92 at somewhere like Carlisle every night makes economic sense?

On a normal night, there would have been a 92 and driver at Carstairs - just happened that there wasn't an Edinburgh portion last night. Parking a 92 and driver at Carlisle that would almost never be used is overkill, no matter what the costs of last night's issues.

 

[TimboM]

Surely not a shortage of 150xx vehicles?

No, nothing to do with a shortage of any vehicles.
There was an issue with the unit intended to work 1M11 (Glasgow portion) last night identified at Polmadie. The unit intended for 1C11 (Edinburgh portion) was therefore switched to 1M11 and 1C11 cancelled.

 

[nlogax]

Yes, it's a lot more settled now, both in terms of timekeeping and reliability of onboard equipment such as plumbing.

Cheers for that Let's see how next Friday goes..will report back!

 

[43055]

It's just left Carlisle. The only problem is the driver swap at Preston as the driver at Preston might now be out of time, or there might not be another driver to take over.

Thanks for the information. Here is 1M16 at Crewe with 1M08 in the background which followed the sleeper from Carlisle.

 

[TimboM]

On a normal night, there would have been a 92 and driver at Carstairs - just happened that there wasn't an Edinburgh portion last night. Parking a 92 and driver at Carlisle that would almost never be used is overkill, no matter what the costs of last night's issues.

Normally there is a 92 overnight at Carstairs, but not a driver. Typically the diagrams are as follows:

• One driver books on at Polmadie around 1930 and works 5C11 Lowlander ECS to Edinburgh, then 1C11 to Carstairs (arrives 00:12) does the join, parks the 92 up, then returns to Polmadie (by road) to book off around 0130.
  
• A second driver books on at Polmadie around 0430, goes by road to Carstairs to fire up the 92 ready for when 1S26 arrives for the split at 0622. That driver then works 1B26 to EDB and the ECS (5B26) back to Polmadie.
  
• A third driver books on to work the Glasgow ECS loco from Glasgow to either Polmadie or across to Edinburgh to be on standby for 1S25/1M16 (about 50:50 at the moment which one it is). This driver (and loco) are therefore the standby for the night - there's no-one manning the 92 at Carstairs.

The Polmadie night driver also works the Polmadie-Edinburgh-Polmadie stock moves overnight to swap over the FTW day coaches - this happens every couple of weeks or so, usually on a Friday night but not always. One of those moves occurred last night and 92023 + the Polmadie night man were assigned to it. This unfortunate coincidence contributed to the delay as meant the standby 92 + driver were over in Edinburgh hooked up to a couple of Mk5s when 020 ran into difficulty, whereas normally they'd be immediately available at Polmadie (or Edinburgh) to effect a much quicker rescue.

 

[Mike99]

That's right:

What an amazing livery, thanks for posting, really impressive, I think it is a good bit of 'accidental' pr for the tourist or regular traveller, tempting people for what's in store when they reach the capital (even though the diesel doesn't) for which most customers wouldn't know that

 

[Bald Rick]

Given GBRf are presumably going to be on the hook for an astronomical delay claim from Avanti, Trans Pennine & various freight operators, when does the point come where parking a manned 92 at somewhere like Carlisle every night makes economic sense?

That’s not how delay ‘compensation’ works.

Cally Sleeper will pay Network Rail an amount proportional to the number of minutes delay caused to all operators. Network Rail will then pay the other operators, almost certainly at a much higher £/minute rate than Cally Sleeper pay NR.

Cally Sleeper may have an arrangement with GBRf for their service provision, and delays caused by it, but I would expect the liability to be capped.

The biggest loser in this will almost certainly be NR. NR is funded largely by taxpayers. Therefore we all lose!

 

[Roger B]

Interesting bit of mis-information at Euston last night. I was looking at the Northbound Highlander at approx 20:15 and the coach side indicators were wrong. Inverness was at the North end but not showing as via Perth. Then I noticed via Kirkaldy and Dundee. So I scratched my senile head thinking I am losing geography. Convinced myself Dundee was on the way to Aberdeen which was not on the via list so decided to ask a member of staff. A few minutes later the displays changed to Inverness being at the rear with the correct via Aviemore etc.

Am I right in thinking the Northbound Inverness portion used to be at the North end of the tran but nowadays is at the South end ?.

Interesting that the via points don't automatically get paired with the destination.

On a positive note I think the stock must be getting quite reliable as last nights (Fri 31/01/202) Northbound formations have hardly changed since 06/01/2020 (25 days). There was only one coach different in the 32 coaches I saw last night. Coach 15316 has replaced coach 15309 in last nights NB lowlander.

Some questions :-
I have not noticed 15001, 15301, 15302 and 15336 getting used yet - anyone else recorded them in use ?.
I assume 15104 might still be on the FortWilliam to/from Edinburgh unless 15106 has left Polmadie to swap with it.
Is the lightly used 15340 still collision damaged at Polmadie ?.
The above questions are based on my own observations and also some reports.

I've seen all bar 15001, 15102, 15301, 15302, 15336, and 15340 in service. Of these I understand that 15001, 15301, 15302 and 15336 have not been used yet, 15102 is a Fort William day coach, and 15340 is retired injured.

JonathanH very helpfully posts formations on this thread occasionally. I'm hoping all will be in service in the not too distant future - I'd have thought CS would want want the fleet to have fairly consistent usage for ease of maintenance schedules, etc.

 

[BRX]

Once you put a rescue loco on the front... Do you not have a bit of a problem fitting into the platform at euston (or at least, when it comes to coupling on a loco for the ECS to go out)?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I've seen all bar 15001, 15102, 15301, 15302, 15336, and 15340 in service. Of these I understand that 15001, 15301, 15302 and 15336 have not been used yet, 15102 is a Fort William day coach, and 15340 is retired injured.

JonathanH very helpfully posts formations on this thread occasionally. I'm hoping all will be in service in the not too distant future - I'd have thought CS would want want the fleet to have fairly consistent usage for ease of maintenance schedules, etc.

Good news for you, maybe, is that coach 15102 is to be seen on Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights on the Northbound sleepers for most/all of January. Last Friday (31/01/2020) it was on the Northbound Lowlander but that might have changed this weekend of course in which case it is probably at Polmadie as a spare.

I am waiting for 15104 to stray from the Fortwilliam to/from Edinburgh diagram. This must have happened this weekend because the rescue 92 was busy doing the swap at Edinburgh if I understand the post below. Thanks TimboM. Although it might already have come off that weeks ago - I am not sure but JonathanH will know sooner or later.

I too am waiting for 15340 to make a recovery and the unused four (15001, 15301, 15302 & 15336) to turn a wheel.

Normally there is a 92 overnight at Carstairs, but not a driver. Typically the diagrams are as follows:

• One driver books on at Polmadie around 1930 and works 5C11 Lowlander ECS to Edinburgh, then 1C11 to Carstairs (arrives 00:12) does the join, parks the 92 up, then returns to Polmadie (by road) to book off around 0130.
  
• A second driver books on at Polmadie around 0430, goes by road to Carstairs to fire up the 92 ready for when 1S26 arrives for the split at 0622. That driver then works 1B26 to EDB and the ECS (5B26) back to Polmadie.
  
• A third driver books on to work the Glasgow ECS loco from Glasgow to either Polmadie or across to Edinburgh to be on standby for 1S25/1M16 (about 50:50 at the moment which one it is). This driver (and loco) are therefore the standby for the night - there's no-one manning the 92 at Carstairs.

The Polmadie night driver also works the Polmadie-Edinburgh-Polmadie stock moves overnight to swap over the FTW day coaches - this happens every couple of weeks or so, usually on a Friday night but not always. One of those moves occurred last night and 92023 + the Polmadie night man were assigned to it. This unfortunate coincidence contributed to the delay as meant the standby 92 + driver were over in Edinburgh hooked up to a couple of Mk5s when 020 ran into difficulty, whereas normally they'd be immediately available at Polmadie (or Edinburgh) to effect a much quicker rescue.

 

[TimboM]

Once you put a rescue loco on the front... Do you not have a bit of a problem fitting into the platform at euston (or at least, when it comes to coupling on a loco for the ECS to go out)?

There was, but it was expected so the late 1M16 was put in 15 and 16 kept empty (17 upwards now OOU anyway due to HS2 works I believe).

92006 was the ECS loco and was in the adjacent engine sidings before running out to top the stock. Would’ve been about half an engine length beyond the signal.

 

[Highland37]

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f.../nightmare-journey-aboard-caledonian-sleeper/

Passengers on the beleaguered Caledonian Sleeper service from London to Fort William were stranded in an unmanned station after the train broke down – then finished their journey on a leaky mini bus.

One passenger, who paid just under £300 for a return ticket, described it as “a nightmare journey,” after arriving in Fort William on Wednesday.

An increase in complaints by passengers of the luxury service last year coincided with the introduction of its new £150million fleet, which has been plagued by teething problems.

The sleeper has the worst passenger complaint rate in the whole of the UK, according to independent regulator the Office of Rail and Road.

Data for the first quarter of last year revealed that the sleeper service received 206 complaints per every 100,000 journeys, up by 67% on the previous year.

Now following this latest incident, questions are being asked about how often problems are experienced on the service.
The 12 people aboard the train on Wednesday had to wait two-and-a-half hours after it lost power at Ardlui.
They were woken at 7am to be told the news and asked to make their way to the buffet car. But no breakfast, or indeed heating, was on offer.

Stuart Jarvis, aged 66, of Oxford said: “At 7am the host knocked my door to say the train had broken down.

“We had managed to pull in at a remote station, Ardlui. It took two-and-a-half hours for a mini bus to get to us. There was no heat on train. No hot drinks. The toilets were locked and we couldn’t use them.

“I paid for a breakfast which I didn’t get and no refund was offered.

“At Ardlui station I had to navigate 25 slippery steps and nearly fell twice. I was carrying two bags and no one helped me.”

The misery continued when they boarded the bus to take them to Fort William. Mr Jarvis said: “The minibus ceiling was leaking water and my seat was soaking wet. I had to sit on it for one-and-a-half hours. There was nowhere else to sit. No apology from the company.”

He added: “How many of these incidents happen? A nightmare journey which was very expensive.

“If it works it is a marvellous asset for tourism for Scotland. But it is not working. They have got to sort it and they have got to reply to people, sooner than within the 10 days they promise.”

Graham Kelly, Serco’s guest experience director for Caledonian Sleeper, said: “We are sorry to guests who were travelling on Tuesday evening’s London to Fort William service and were involved in the delays that took place.

“The delay was caused by a locomotive failure and resulted in guests being transported to their destination from Ardlui via road replacement services.”

 

[JonathanH]

Coach 15316 has replaced coach 15309 in last nights NB lowlander.

If 15309 had been replaced by 15316, what had replaced 15316? 15316 should have been coach 5 and 15309 coach 9 in the formation of the NB lowlander on Friday night.

 

[Peter Sarf]

If 15309 had been replaced by 15316, what had replaced 15316? 15316 should have been coach 5 and 15309 coach 9 in the formation of the NB lowlander on Friday night.

Your correct 15309 still in there. My eyes need testing I completely overlooked it .

The only thing that seems to have changed is 15316 being ADDED to what seems was a 7-car set (or am I wrong ?) back on 06/01/2020. I have amended the original post.

 

[TimboM]

Your correct 15309 still in there. My eyes need testing I completely overlooked it .

The only thing that seems to have changed is 15316 being ADDED to what seems was a 7-car set back on 06/01/2020.

If I remember correctly 15316 (and 15324) were originally in that unit (Unit 3) but both were knocked out at Polmadie at the same time due to issues. A spare PRM was put in the unit in their place and it ran as a Load 7 with an extra PRM for a few nights. 15316 and 15324 were then fixed and slotted back into the unit on its next couple of rotations through Polmadie.

 

[JonathanH]

If I remember correctly 15316 (and 15324) were originally in that unit (Unit 3) but both were knocked out at Polmadie at the same time due to issues. A spare PRM was put in the unit in their place and it ran as a Load 7 with an extra PRM for a few nights. 15316 and 15324 were then fixed and slotted back into the unit on its next couple of rotations through Polmadie.

Yes, a gen group posting shows 15210 in the formation (in place of 15316 and 15324) of Unit 3 on 4 January. Maybe I need to add that line to the history.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes, a gen group posting shows 15210 in the formation (in place of 15316 and 15324) of Unit 3 on 4 January. Maybe I need to add that line to the history.

From what I saw on 06/01/2020 eve 15324 must have made it back into the set and 15210 must have dropped back out leaving the set still as 7-car. I guess 15316 took longer to repair but I have no sightings of that set/unit until 31/01/2020.

I have noticed an extra PRM on occasions. Meaning a train of 16 coaches has 4 PRMs instead of 3 PRMs. That is inevitable since there are not quite enough 153xxs.

Thanks JonathanH and TimboM.

 

[Roger B]

Good news for you, maybe, is that coach 15102 is to be seen on Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights on the Northbound sleepers for most/all of January. Last Friday (31/01/2020) it was on the Northbound Lowlander but that might have changed this weekend of course in which case it is probably at Polmadie as a spare.

I am waiting for 15104 to stray from the Fortwilliam to/from Edinburgh diagram. This must have happened this weekend because the rescue 92 was busy doing the swap at Edinburgh if I understand the post below. Thanks TimboM. Although it might already have come off that weeks ago - I am not sure but JonathanH will know sooner or later.

I too am waiting for 15340 to make a recovery and the unused four (15001, 15301, 15302 & 15336) to turn a wheel.

Many thanks Peter - although I probably won't have a shot at seeing it for two or three weeks - hopefully some other will be out to play by then

 

[Peter Sarf]

Many thanks Peter - although I probably won't have a shot at seeing it for two or three weeks - hopefully some other will be out to play by then

Yes I am hoping it is getting more and more likely that some of the unused coaches finally get used. But you don't want that to be at the expense of one you need dropping out. That is why I have been chasing every single new sleeper that visits the WCML. I have burnt my fingers on 15340 and I predict that will evade me for ages . Even if I go foraging at Polmadie I bet it is locked inside .

 

[ScottDarg]

Lowlander from Edinburgh running into issues this evening. At a stand in the Haymarket tunnels and has been for nearly an hour now.

Light locomotive (0C11) now at Carstairs and heading towards Edinburgh. Glasgow portion is at Carstairs.

 

[_toommm_]

Highlander from Inverness also seems to be at a stand in the Haymarket Tunnels - it's been stopped for just over 20 minutes.

 

[Sleeper69]

66721 & 7969 in Edinburgh arrived in with 1M16 ftom Inverness

 

[Statto]

Highlander from Inverness also seems to be at a stand in the Haymarket Tunnels - it's been stopped for just over 20 minutes.

Looking on Traksy, the lowlander is still in the tunnels approaching Haymarket & the Highlander is at the platform in Edinburgh

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Looking on Traksy, the lowlander is still in the tunnels approaching Haymarket & the Highlander at the platform in Edinburgh

92038 has burst on the lowlander

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Also no loco for 1M16 (highlander) tonight due to Friday nights failure.

1M16 was to have been worked by the loco off 1C11 returning ECS from Carstairs.

Plan is now 1M16 will be heavily delayed awaiting the loco off northbound 1S25!