So, you're thinking of voting BNP because they're just misunderstood?

[the sniper]

Griffin has indeed questioned in the past whether the holocaust occured. Was it just youthful foolishness? Does he truly believe that? Who knows, i personally don't care. If thats his opinion then fair enough, is doesn't mean he couldn't run a country.

I think you'll find that it's an undeniable fact that Griffin believes the Holocaust didn't happen, he's been secretly filmed saying as much and didn't deny his disbelief on Question Time, even though it would have been sensible for him to do so.

That it doesn't bother you that your leader believes in one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theory's of modern times is quite odd, imo. At least it means he shares something with the Arabs though; they like to deny the holocaust too.

What about all the left wing apologists, who's opinions are indulged by the media, who conveniently forget about Stalin, who was responsible for millions more deaths, Jews included, than Hitler ever was.

That's like saying the BNP should apologise for Margaret Thatcher, because she was right wing too and she didn't do any favour for white working class people. Using the same thinking, are the BNP conveniently forgetting how many white British people were killed by Hitler and his far right state in WW2? Should the BNP apologise for that, like the Liberals and Labour should apologise for Stalin?

If there is any kind of empathy towards towards Stalin (funnily enough, I've never actually seen any positive reports of Stalin, but the BNP have obviously told you they exists), maybe it's because, without him and his empire, we'd all be slaves to the Third Reich by now, or we wouldn't exist...

So why are the policies ridiculous and workable then?

Hmm, where should we start...

The BNP want to review all citizenship grants awarded since Labour entered government in 1997, with a view, at least, to deporting all the Muslims that have come into the country in that time. Now, how do you think these people are going to take that? They'll only go kicking and screaming, obviously, and there'll be anarchy on the streets as them, other Muslims & minorities and groups like Unite Against Fascism take to the streets. Who do you think will go about the task of physically deporting these people who are having their citizenship removed through no fault of their own, do you think the police and immigration service are going to suddenly fall in line? I don't, unless there's some kind of massive, unexplainable shift in national rationale. If the Police are given the responsibility to find and deport people, it'll servilely damage their ability to Police by consent amongst great swathes of the population.

According to the BNP's manifesto, they would "officially declare Britain to be a non-immigration country". Bizarrely though they contradict this by saying "Work permits will only be issued in exceptional circumstances, for example, when the Government determines there is a need to rebuild British industry or when there is a genuine shortage of skills." So immigrants can come here after all?

The BNP also plan to ban the promotion of racial integration in schools and the media, thus introducing an apartheid type system to the schools of Britain. Presumably the aim of this is to ensure that the white youths of Britain have the same irrational hatred of the unknown coloured people instilled in them as BNP members do. The same hatred of the unknown will most probably be instilled in non-whites too, which will surely make for a really Great Britain of the future. :roll:

The creme de la creme of BNP policy though are their plans to repeal the 1998 Human Rights Act and Withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights. This means the BNP can do whatever they like to anybody, no matter what race they are. If you ever decide that you don't like the BNP anymore, your screwed.

Can you substantiate your point that the membership is largely uneducated

Of course, without having access to their school records I can't be 100% certain, but looking at the people they had campaigning in my area, the kind of people who turn up at EDL meets and attend BNP functions, I think we can safely assume that the core BNP following aren't the best educated of people. Also, the way the BNP do especially well in area's of high unemployment is hardly indicative of them attracting a highly educated following.

The "Scum" are certainly not the core demographic of the BNP, they wouldn't even be able to find their way to the polling station let alone know how to put an x in the box!

No, your right, they're probably not the core demographic. Their parents are likely to be the ones that vote BNP and blame all of Britain's problems on immigrants.

Have you noticed how many of these people seem to take their lead from the worst aspects of immigrant culture "innit, ya kna what a mean?"

Oh please, immigrants are teaching us youth how to speak now? Your example reads more like geordie speak to me...

The biggest influence on chavs seems to me to be gangster rap from America and now UK grunge, both of which often glorify violence and gang culture. I don't think the BNP see this as an issue though, presumably because it's easier to blame those pesky Muslims again!

(That last paragraph makes me sound like a really old man! )

 

[CarterUSM]

I recall reading a manifesto pamphlet of the november 9th society arguing the numbers murdered in the holocaust as opposed to its actual happening. A disgusting piece of literature in my opinion nonetheless, made the BNP look like fairies

 

[Kneedown]

Just because the figures are taken from an anti BNP website, doesn;t mean that the figures themselves are invalid, or incorrect. Just like stating that facts on the BNP are false just because of where they are!

Kneedown are saying that anyone who was in the UK before 1997 is now British? Or have you just taken that date because it was when the last government came to power?

If you smell burning from the kitchen, do you consult the latest statistics on accidents in the home before deciding whether or not your toast is on fire?
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Reminds me of 1920\30s Germany. High unemployment, country very short of money. Along comes a leader - "Yeah, I can get you all jobs" "Vote for me".

And then look what happened. Though Nick Griffin doesn't believe that bit.

Here we go again, the so called nazi connection, change the record for goodness sake.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed. we've come too far and through too much as a nation to regress to politics of lowest common denominator.

But we've only progressed in the totally wrong direction. What is better about living in Britain now than it was a few years ago? or even longer than that?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Here we go again, the so called nazi connection, change the record for goodness sake.

Because there is a rather large connection between the two.

 

[Kneedown]

I think you'll find that it's an undeniable fact that Griffin believes the Holocaust didn't happen, he's been secretly filmed saying as much and didn't deny his disbelief on Question Time, even though it would have been sensible for him to do so.

That it doesn't bother you that your leader believes in one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theory's of modern times is quite odd, imo. At least it means he shares something with the Arabs though; they like to deny the holocaust too.



That's like saying the BNP should apologise for Margaret Thatcher, because she was right wing too and she didn't do any favour for white working class people. Using the same thinking, are the BNP conveniently forgetting how many white British people were killed by Hitler and his far right state in WW2? Should the BNP apologise for that, like the Liberals and Labour should apologise for Stalin?

If there is any kind of empathy towards towards Stalin (funnily enough, I've never actually seen any positive reports of Stalin, but the BNP have obviously told you they exists), maybe it's because, without him and his empire, we'd all be slaves to the Third Reich by now, or we wouldn't exist...



Hmm, where should we start...

The BNP want to review all citizenship grants awarded since Labour entered government in 1997, with a view, at least, to deporting all the Muslims that have come into the country in that time. Now, how do you think these people are going to take that? They'll only go kicking and screaming, obviously, and there'll be anarchy on the streets as them, other Muslims & minorities and groups like Unite Against Fascism take to the streets. Who do you think will go about the task of physically deporting these people who are having their citizenship removed through no fault of their own, do you think the police and immigration service are going to suddenly fall in line? I don't, unless there's some kind of massive, unexplainable shift in national rationale. If the Police are given the responsibility to find and deport people, it'll servilely damage their ability to Police by consent amongst great swathes of the population.

According to the BNP's manifesto, they would "officially declare Britain to be a non-immigration country". Bizarrely though they contradict this by saying "Work permits will only be issued in exceptional circumstances, for example, when the Government determines there is a need to rebuild British industry or when there is a genuine shortage of skills." So immigrants can come here after all?

The BNP also plan to ban the promotion of racial integration in schools and the media, thus introducing an apartheid type system to the schools of Britain. Presumably the aim of this is to ensure that the white youths of Britain have the same irrational hatred of the unknown coloured people instilled in them as BNP members do. The same hatred of the unknown will most probably be instilled in non-whites too, which will surely make for a really Great Britain of the future. :roll:

The creme de la creme of BNP policy though are their plans to repeal the 1998 Human Rights Act and Withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights. This means the BNP can do whatever they like to anybody, no matter what race they are. If you ever decide that you don't like the BNP anymore, your screwed.



Of course, without having access to their school records I can't be 100% certain, but looking at the people they had campaigning in my area, the kind of people who turn up at EDL meets and attend BNP functions, I think we can safely assume that the core BNP following aren't the best educated of people. Also, the way the BNP do especially well in area's of high unemployment is hardly indicative of them attracting a highly educated following.



No, your right, they're probably not the core demographic. Their parents are likely to be the ones that vote BNP and blame all of Britain's problems on immigrants.



Oh please, immigrants are teaching us youth how to speak now? Your example reads more like geordie speak to me...

The biggest influence on chavs seems to me to be gangster rap from America and now UK grunge, both of which often glorify violence and gang culture. I don't think the BNP see this as an issue though, presumably because it's easier to blame those pesky Muslims again!

(That last paragraph makes me sound like a really old man! )

My thanks to the Sniper for actually quoting some policies and how, in his/her view they wouldn't work. got to head off for work soon so not got time to fully counter, but very briefly......

You state that Mrs Thatcher was no friend of the British working class, and that if it wasn't for Stalin we'd all be speaking German now.
Well, if it wasn't for Mrs Thatcher, you and i and everyone in Europe, Britain included, would all be speaking Russian now, and the good people of the Falklands would be speaking Spanish.

Secondly, it makes perfect sense to not have immigration when it's not needed and detrimental to the existing population, but to leave a possibility of allowing a limited amount should it ever become apparent that would be beneficial.

Ripping up the human rights act would be the best thing that could ever happen. We don't need one in this country, we managed perfectly well without one for years, and all it is is a criminals and illegal immigrants charter.

Finally, you cannot deny that loads of the chav's nowadays speak in the Jamaican gangsta stye. I think it's called "Patta" or "Patwa" or something. Sorry if it sounded like Geordie to you, but i'm sure most people will know what i mean.
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Because there is a rather large connection between the two.

Once again, you may believe that, but would you like to substantiate the claim.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Where do I start? Promising economic gain, Racism, violence, wanting to kick everyone who isn't truly british out - effectively trying to build a "master race".

 

[Greenback]

If you smell burning from the kitchen, do you consult the latest statistics on accidents in the home before deciding whether or not your toast is on fire?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not sure I see the relevance of that. Are you trying to say that Britain is likely to burn down?

You questioned the provenance of soem statistics. I merely pointed out that the source of the statistics are more important than the emdium.
Here we go again, the so called nazi connection, change the record for goodness sake.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


But we've only progressed in the totally wrong direction. What is better about living in Britain now than it was a few years ago? or even longer than that?

Whether someone feels personally that it was better to live in the UK a few years ago, or is better now, is often a matter of personal perspective. This is affected by redundancy, job security, sporting achievements and whole host of other factors. No doubt the BNP will make the trains run on time, ensure that England wins the World Cup (no immigrant footballers in the Premiership will surely allow the best English players to flourish, rather than playing in the Unibond League), and make the sun shine permanently?

My thanks to the Sniper for actually quoting some policies and how, in his/her view they wouldn't work. got to head off for work soon so not got time to fully counter, but very briefly......

You state that Mrs Thatcher was no friend of the British working class, and that if it wasn't for Stalin we'd all be speaking German now.
Well, if it wasn't for Mrs Thatcher, you and i and everyone in Europe, Britain included, would all be speaking Russian now, and the good people of the Falklands would be speaking Spanish.

Secondly, it makes perfect sense to not have immigration when it's not needed and detrimental to the existing population, but to leave a possibility of allowing a limited amount should it ever become apparent that would be beneficial.

Ripping up the human rights act would be the best thing that could ever happen. We don't need one in this country, we managed perfectly well without one for years, and all it is is a criminals and illegal immigrants charter.

Finally, you cannot deny that loads of the chav's nowadays speak in the Jamaican gangsta stye. I think it's called "Patta" or "Patwa" or something. Sorry if it sounded like Geordie to you, but i'm sure most people will know what i mean.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Once again, you may believe that, but would you like to substantiate the claim.

There is a great deal of similarity between BNP points of view and the National Socialist Party in Germany circa 1924. If you would liek to dispute that, I suggest you do some research, you never know, you might learn something!

Where do I start? Promising economic gain, Racism, violence, wanting to kick everyone who isn't truly british out - effectively trying to build a "master race".

Exactly! The Nazi's neve ropenly said on their rise to power that they were going to wipe out the Jews or invade half of Europe. No, they instead appealed to the patriotism of the ordinary people, promising that they were the only ones who could make the country truly great again...sounds familiar, doesn't it!

 

[313103]

Whether someone feels personally that it was better to live in the UK a few years ago, or is better now, is often a matter of personal perspective. This is affected by redundancy, job security, sporting achievements and whole host of other factors. No doubt the BNP will make the trains run on time, ensure that England wins the World Cup (no immigrant footballers in the Premiership will surely allow the best English players to flourish, rather than playing in the Unibond League), and make the sun shine permanently?

Well of course under a bnp government their would be no unemployment, their would be no redunancy, absolute job secruity we would win the cricket world cup without the likes of Pietersen & Hassan et al, England would win the world cup without the likes of Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Jermain De Foe etc and play people who can trace their family back to the land before time, we will live in peace and harmony where no one touches another person in order to keep the peace, however the one thing the bnp cant do is make the sun shine.

What i would like to know from kneedown is where i stand, my mother has traced her family routes back to at least 1700s and yes we came from the uk albeit the North West and Dorset! strange i know. Do not know much about my Fathers side although he was a Londoner as was his Father. Yet i married someone who was born in this country (the same hospital would you belive) and she was only a second generation Jamaican 'IMMIGRANT'(yes i know you wont like that). We both work me full time with a London based TOC owned by a mixture of German and Chinise and my wife works part time for the biggest reatiler in this country which is incidently Jewish immigrant owned.

So tell me kneedown ( and be honest and beat about the bush) what would the bnp do with me and wife?

 

[LE Greys]

A lot of what the BNP are doing seems to be a way of taking advantage of a suggestion that the Government is anti-majoritarian. In other words, they want you to think that the authorities think you can discriminate against the straight white male, but nobody else. That perception allows people such as the BNP to claim that they are standing up for ordinary people when they really want to clamp down on minorities.

Really, the best way to deal with that would be to attack that perception. Treating everyone fairly would probably be the best way to do that. As a result, BNP support from ordinary people would begin to fall away. They also gain a lot of support from the anti-politics side and from protest votes. The first might reduce, while the second might fall away under certain other voting systems.

I don't think Britain is anti-majoritarian. Even if it was, that would be the fault of the people who run the country for their excessive political correctness, not the minorities themselves.

 

[CarterUSM]

IBut we've only progressed in the totally wrong direction. What is better about living in Britain now than it was a few years ago? or even longer than that?

I'm not sure what you mean, by the wrong direction? I'm of the opinion we're probably one of the fairest developed nations on the planet when it comes to justice and helping the less fortunate. We cannot go deporting people who are British through and through and/or make a valuable contribution to society based solely on their creed or colour. That just is not fair. I, amongst a lot of others, obviously have some concerns about the supposed immigration problem and seeing Britain as a "soft touch" but i put that down in part to poetic licence by journalists. If someone has a contribution to make, then let them! Yes, lets control things a bit more and look to add skills to the national framework as well as sheltering the genuinely needy, but most of all we need to stay clear of division and sensationalist induced fear. I'm not going to criticise your political allegiance, but do you really see the BNP as the answer?

 

[Kneedown]

Where do I start? Promising economic gain, Racism, violence, wanting to kick everyone who isn't truly british out - effectively trying to build a "master race".

Can you find anything in the BNP's manifesto, policies, or anywhere on the official website, that makes reference to building a "master race"?

Don't all parties promise economic gain?

Can you prove conclusively that BNP members are involved in violence? By this i mean unprovoked violence, and not self defence. If so, can you prove that every member of other political parties, ie Lab,Lib,Con,SWP,Resp, is not guilty of offences of violence? There were 887,942 violent offences against the person recorded last year. Are you implying that all or most are perpetrated by BNP members? I'm sure you're not implying that, in which case the likelihood would be that these people support a number of different parties, Lab,Lib,Con included, so why single out the BNP?
John Prescott punched a guy, two Labour thugs pounced on the pensioner Walter Wolfgang and dragged him outside for muttering when Jack Straw was speaking. Didn't Ken Livingston liken a Jewish reporter to a concentration camp guard? Need i go on?

As regards "wanting to kick everyone who isn't truely British out", once again, on the official website, there is no mention of this being a policy. Compulsory repatriation is limited to illegal immigrants (which i agree with) persons who's right to remain has expired (which i also agree with) and persons of overseas descent who engage in criminal activity (which i'm positively cock a hoop about!)
On what grounds do you base the assumption that actual policy will exceed stated?
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There is a great deal of similarity between BNP points of view and the National Socialist Party in Germany circa 1924. If you would liek to dispute that, I suggest you do some research, you never know, you might learn something!

There is great deal of similarity between Lab,SWP,CPGB and Communist Russia (who, as i've already stated, were responsible for many more deaths)

! The Nazi's neve ropenly said on their rise to power that they were going to wipe out the Jews or invade half of Europe. No, they instead appealed to the patriotism of the ordinary people, promising that they were the only ones who could make the country truly great again...sounds familiar, doesn't it!

What you say is true, but that doesn't mean that mass murder is, or ever will be BNP policy.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So tell me kneedown ( and be honest and beat about the bush) what would the bnp do with me and wife?

Errrrm...... I'm assuming that you and your good family are all honest law abiding citizens, in which case you'll all get up in the morn, go to work, come home, go to bed, get up, go to work, come home, go to bed, and so on and so on until you retire.
Pretty much the same as what you do now.

 

[Greenback]

There is great deal of similarity between Lab,SWP,CPGB and Communist Russia (who, as i've already stated, were responsible for many more deaths)

What you say is true, but that doesn't mean that mass murder is, or ever will be BNP policy.

I really can't see any similarity between Labour (who have mvoed a long way from the left( and Communist Russia, except possibly for the constant intereference and intrusion into peoples personal information. As for the Socialist Workers Party and the Communist Party of Great Britian, they are both as politically extreme as the BNP, and about as likely to get elected!

Of course, the lack of a BNP public policy to commit mass murder doesn't mean that it won't ever happen, if the country was daft enought to return a BNP governent. Which it won't!

 

[TrainBrain185]

Where do I start? Promising economic gain, Racism, violence, wanting to kick everyone who isn't truly british out - effectively trying to build a "master race".

The exact thinking of Islam and the Muslim Religion? To be the master race eventually and ethnically cleanse the world of the white infidel? Oh yeah indeed! There are two sides to every story sir, one which I fear for the future. Oh, the latest insult is they want to build a Mosque on Ground Zero....

 

[90019]

Oh, the latest insult is they want to build a Mosque on Ground Zero....

Source?

Last time I heard that, it was on Mock the Week, I think it was (might have been a different show).

 

[Lampshade]

Oh, the latest insult is they want to build a Mosque on Ground Zero....

I'm pretty sure that was made up.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The exact thinking of Islam and the Muslim Religion? To be the master race eventually and ethnically cleanse the world of the white infidel? Oh yeah indeed! There are two sides to every story sir, one which I fear for the future. Oh, the latest insult is they want to build a Mosque on Ground Zero....

And what a myth that is!

Did you know that Islam literally translates into peace?

And they don't want to build a mosque on Ground Zero. They originally though of building a community center two blocks away. The Director of the Mayor's Office for Immigrant Affairs - himself a muslim - said that it was an attempt to stop extremism by integrating and socialising with younger muslims who are more likely to be taken in by the extremely small extremist splinter.

 

[me123]

Islam itself is a peaceful religion that does not condone violence, and amonst other things sets out clear rules on just wars. It does have an extremist sector, but so do most religions to a greater or lesser degree. Christianity even has extremists.

 

[j0hn0]

Islam itself is a peaceful religion that does not condone violence, and amonst other things sets out clear rules on just wars. It does have an extremist sector, but so do most religions to a greater or lesser degree. Christianity even has extremists.

yep, George Bush

For me, religious extremism is only dangerous when you have some kind of power, be it political or having a bomb in your rucksack.

It is merely old has-beens influencing disillusioned kids to kill themselves in the name of Islam. In my opinion, the Muslim community need to rid themselves of extremists. There needs to be a concerted effort on all muslim denominations to get these people out. But seeing as Sunnis and Shias are constantly killing each other, there isnt much hope

get the Imams, clerics to be the suicide bomber, problem solved!!!

 

[TrainBrain185]

Islam itself is a peaceful religion that does not condone violence, and amonst other things sets out clear rules on just wars.

9-11 New York/7-7 London. Yeah, okay, you have a good point...

 

[ralphchadkirk]

9-11 New York/7-7 London. Yeah, okay, you have a good point...

Which isn't supported by Islam. They condemned the actions of the few individuals who caused such destruction.

 

[TrainBrain185]

Which isn't supported by Islam. They condemned the actions of the few individuals who caused such destruction.

Sorry, guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[313103]

When it comes to discussing race or now that trainbrian has mentioned it religion why do people all of a sudden become very ignorant about the issue?

Rather then give a reasoned expression or thought one, two or three things that have taken place are taken as a whole context.

 

[yorkie]

The exact thinking of Islam and the Muslim Religion? To be the master race eventually and ethnically cleanse the world of the white infidel? Oh yeah indeed! There are two sides to every story sir, one which I fear for the future. Oh, the latest insult is they want to build a Mosque on Ground Zero....

What religion are you? I'm sure I can find something on it...

TrainBrain185 and Kneedown display narrow-minded views and have done before. This is nothing new. Still, two out of a thousand active members displaying these sort of views is not a bad showing. You always get the odd one or two, it's inevitable. If they left I wouldn't be shedding any tears.
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Can you prove conclusively that BNP members are involved in violence? By this i mean unprovoked violence, and not self defence.

The well publicised incident was not "self defence".

Someone can be provoked and act well beyond "self defence".

At best, you're clutching at straws. If you really think that's a credible argument, well, the mind boggles!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

9-11 New York/7-7 London. Yeah, okay, you have a good point...

Warrington 3-20/Manchester 6-15 (American date format used as per your examples. For the rest of us who use UK dates, they are 20th March 1993 and 15 June 1996, respectively)

Does this prove Catholics want to rid the world of non-Catholics?

Or does stating terrorist incidents using American dates actually indicate absolutely nothing about a religion?

I await a comeback :roll: I suspect it will be 'limited' in nature. *yawn*

 

[EM2]

Hyde Park and Regent's Park bombings - 20 July 1982
Harrods bombing - 17 December 1983
Deal Barracks bombing - 22 September, 1989
Oklahoma City bombing - April 19, 1995
Atlanta Centennial Olympic Park bombing - July 27, 1996

So where's all the Muslim involvement there?

 

[TrainBrain185]

Tou'che, a truly valid retort Messrs Yorkie and EM2.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Actually, it's touché.

 

[bluebottle]

Actually, it's touché.

Threeché, I raise you one ché.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I had to google that one....

 

[TrainBrain185]

Threeché, I raise you one ché.

Poker players now huh?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Actually, it's touché.

Thankyou.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What religion are you? I'm sure I can find something on it...

TrainBrain185 and Kneedown display narrow-minded views and have done before. This is nothing new. Still, two out of a thousand active members displaying these sort of views is not a bad showing. You always get the odd one or two, it's inevitable. If they left I wouldn't be shedding any tears.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The well publicised incident was not "self defence".

Someone can be provoked and act well beyond "self defence".

At best, you're clutching at straws. If you really think that's a credible argument, well, the mind boggles!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Warrington 3-20/Manchester 6-15 (American date format used as per your examples. For the rest of us who use UK dates, they are 20th March 1993 and 15 June 1996, respectively)

Does this prove Catholics want to rid the world of non-Catholics?

Or does stating terrorist incidents using American dates actually indicate absolutely nothing about a religion?

I await a comeback :roll: I suspect it will be 'limited' in nature. *yawn*

With the contempt it deserves.

 

[me123]

9-11 New York/7-7 London. Yeah, okay, you have a good point...

Well, you've also made a good point. You've just shown how ignorant you are. To judge an entire faith based on the actions of a handful of extremists is simply the kind of stereotypes that common racism thrives upon.

You may wish to note that the Ku Kulx Klan claims to be a Christian organisation. This is a group who actively support White Supremacy, and who have been involved in racially motivated murders. They are also terrorists. However, Christianity is not judged on the actions of this group and others like it. So why do we judge Islam based on the reactions of similar fringe groups?

Which isn't supported by Islam. They condemned the actions of the few individuals who caused such destruction.

Hear Hear.