No you're right. I went to buy a new suitcase a couple of years ago and everything seems far bigger than it used to be. They are also usually very incovenient shapes for stacking!
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What should Cross Country realistically do?
- Thread starter tbtc
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No you're right. I went to buy a new suitcase a couple of years ago and everything seems far bigger than it used to be. They are also usually very incovenient shapes for stacking!
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Failed Unit
Established Member
I wonder if a 170 could cover on many routes and still keep time considering the amount of recovery time in the timetable. I know Doncaster - Edinburgh no chance. But most of the other area only has short stretches cleared for about 100mph running. Take Derby - Birmingham I am sure a 100mph train could keep time with all the recovery time built into that section?
Extend the hourly Reading-Manchester service to Brighton. This would provide Gatwick with a direct link to the West Midlands and Lancashire, and give the option of a stop at any new Heathrow station on the GWML, as well as the option of linking Heathrow directly to Gatwick.
Also, is there an option for a Dover-Manchester service via HS1 and the WCML? That's more Virgin territory than XC, but I think it just might be possible. The point here would be to connect Ashford and the Channel ports to parts of England other than London, and reduce the need for passengers to walk the half-mile of Euston Road for Eurostar connections (a sort of "Regional Eurostar Lite"
).
Also, is there an option for a Dover-Manchester service via HS1 and the WCML? That's more Virgin territory than XC, but I think it just might be possible. The point here would be to connect Ashford and the Channel ports to parts of England other than London, and reduce the need for passengers to walk the half-mile of Euston Road for Eurostar connections (a sort of "Regional Eurostar Lite"
).thefab444
Established Member
Surely you mean the Reading - Newcastle service? And to run hourly to Brighton would require a good number of extra Voyagers for very little gain. Perhaps hourly to Gatwick Airport, alternating between via Guildford and via Kensington?
Failed Unit
Established Member
I know it is out of the hands of whoever runs the franchise, but if GWML is ever electrified, then having it cover the Bassingstoke - Reading and Oxford - Coventry routes would be a good logical step. However it would only realistically hand over Manchester - South Coast services to EMU's and most of the other traffic between Oxford and Leamington would still be EMU so probably not really much of a benefit in doing it.
Of course I did : smacks forehead : ! Not sure if there is enough platform space at Gatwick, but probably so. Still, let's have at least one going to Brighton every day, even if it is just to stable a unit overnight. Part of the idea is to put pressure on Network Rail to upgrade Iver as an airport interchange with motorway access, Heathrow Airport Parkway. That shortens the Reading-Heathrow coach link and avoids the traffic jams around Slough.
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That makes a lot of sense. Basingstoke-Reading would be fine for overhead operation, with changeover platforms in Basingstoke and the service operated by dual-system stock (perhaps 350s or the often-discussed Electro-Voyager). I also like the idea of electro-diesel Voyager conversions, some of which could end up on other lines as well. The Cotswold Line is perfect for them.
To get full benefit, you would need to electrify Chiltern before too long as well, including Aylesbury. That suggests other lines such as Reading-Gatwick (in practice Wokingham-Ash and Guildford-Reigate) the Stratford-on-Avon routes and the Metropolitan fast lines (imagine Met stock changing to a.c. at Harrow) although we are close to entering a cost spiral. However, it suggests the usual virtuous circle. This would be closer to the WCML than the ECML, which has not delivered mass electrification around Leeds or Newcastle.
mallard
Established Member
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Wouldn't it be easier to just have the Met electrified with the 4th-rail grounded (like on the district at Wimbledon - allows use of both 3rd-rail and underground stock on the same line) and run Chiltern with dual-voltage stock?
Depends on whether you want Chiltern changing over twice (d.c. into Marylebone is a bit impractical if you already have a.c. in there) or the Met changing over once. Stringing wires over Harrow-Amersham with the d.c. still live would be a third option, but would look a bit silly. Of course, you could have 4th rail to Aylesbury (I'd like to see Aylesbury-Baker Street/Aldgate anyway) but that's not much good if you plan to extend Chiltern to Milton Keynes via the East-West Link one day.
Veering back to Cross Country, I wonder if it's possible to do what MML did with some of the 2-car Turbostars and put an extra vehicle in the middle with catering facilities. I remember when Central got their hands on them, and it seemed a bit of a waste not to use them (but the declassified first class seats were nice).
Green Lane
Member
Took my first ever journey on a Cross Country train yesterday, on a daytrip to Bristol. I used to live in Bristol for a few years back in the early '90s as a student, but this is the first time I'd been back there since 1994! Interesting to see the differences in the train services between now and then.
After reading some of the posts on here I did have some slight concern that the train might be full, but like back in the '90s, the journey south of Birmingham was not too busy. I'd say the train was just slightly over half full on the way to Bristol and perhaps only a quarter full on the way back, so that was good.
I agree with points raised about the fare/pricing system. Have to confirm splitting at Cheltenham Spa is an absolute must saving around £18 or so on the BHM-BRI leg of the journey IIRC.
Other thing I noticed was a real juddering of the seats when the train was in the station, but perfectly fine when the train was in motion which I've experienced before on certain types of DMUs. I noticed other passengers had also felt this I overheard people saying things like "this train's a bit wobbly".
I also seem to remember that back in the '90s that the train also used to call at Gloucester, but my memory is very hazy, I think it would have had to reverse too. I notice now that Gloucester now missed out on this route, with the train instead staying on the main line. I guess this makes sense for longer distance travel, since it'd be no problem to change at Cheltenham Spa to get to Gloucester if needed.
After reading some of the posts on here I did have some slight concern that the train might be full, but like back in the '90s, the journey south of Birmingham was not too busy. I'd say the train was just slightly over half full on the way to Bristol and perhaps only a quarter full on the way back, so that was good.
I agree with points raised about the fare/pricing system. Have to confirm splitting at Cheltenham Spa is an absolute must saving around £18 or so on the BHM-BRI leg of the journey IIRC.
Other thing I noticed was a real juddering of the seats when the train was in the station, but perfectly fine when the train was in motion which I've experienced before on certain types of DMUs. I noticed other passengers had also felt this I overheard people saying things like "this train's a bit wobbly".
I also seem to remember that back in the '90s that the train also used to call at Gloucester, but my memory is very hazy, I think it would have had to reverse too. I notice now that Gloucester now missed out on this route, with the train instead staying on the main line. I guess this makes sense for longer distance travel, since it'd be no problem to change at Cheltenham Spa to get to Gloucester if needed.
Took my first ever journey on a Cross Country train yesterday, on a daytrip to Bristol. I used to live in Bristol for a few years back in the early '90s as a student, but this is the first time I'd been back there since 1994! Interesting to see the differences in the train services between now and then.
After reading some of the posts on here I did have some slight concern that the train might be full, but like back in the '90s, the journey south of Birmingham was not too busy. I'd say the train was just slightly over half full on the way to Bristol and perhaps only a quarter full on the way back, so that was good.
I agree with points raised about the fare/pricing system. Have to confirm splitting at Cheltenham Spa is an absolute must saving around £18 or so on the BHM-BRI leg of the journey IIRC.
Other thing I noticed was a real juddering of the seats when the train was in the station, but perfectly fine when the train was in motion which I've experienced before on certain types of DMUs. I noticed other passengers had also felt this I overheard people saying things like "this train's a bit wobbly".
I also seem to remember that back in the '90s that the train also used to call at Gloucester, but my memory is very hazy, I think it would have had to reverse too. I notice now that Gloucester now missed out on this route, with the train instead staying on the main line. I guess this makes sense for longer distance travel, since it'd be no problem to change at Cheltenham Spa to get to Gloucester if needed.
There are hardly any trains from Birmingham to Bristol that call at Gloucester now, especially compared with the 1990's. Gloucester is served by XC on the Nottingham - Cardiff route and by FGW trains to Bristol. Not calling at Gloucester is the right move, as a call there seems to cost 14 minutes or so in the public timetable.
Green Lane
Member
Agreed it was a good call to bypass Gloucester on the longer distance services. Also I note there are no direct services from Liverpool Lime Street to Bristol Temple Meads any more. IIRC there used to be one or two a day. Again it's probably the right decision as it's no problem to change at Birmingham New Street. In any case, I went via Chester not Liverpool yesterday in order to save money. Have to say that was very convenient on the way back since the XC train called at Stafford only a few minutes ahead of an LM train en-route to Liverpool via Crewe. Where I caught a VT holyhead train to Chester. Really it was great to see the whole system running like clockwork!
Back in the '90s the service from Liverpool used to be hauled by an electric locomotive. At Birmingham New Street, it would be decoupled and a diesel loco would be coupled on, at the other end of the train. It would not be uncommon for the train to reverse twice during the entire journey. Also the lights in the carriages used be comparatively dimmer when powered off the diesel loco. I remember feeling the carriages getting shunted by the loco, it would be a slight jolt. This all added some minutes to the journey time too!
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DfT were responsible for the transfe rof services to and from the North West away from XC, but I can't remember if there were still through trains to Liverpool at that point. I can remember when the trains from Cardiff went alternately to Manchester and Liverpool in the 1980's though!
All train lights seem brighter now. It makes it difficult to sleep on some trains! Maybe it's me, but though trains are faster now they often seem less comfortable and the journey less interesting (operationally speaking) than they used to be.
tbtc
Veteran Member
In the early days of Operation Princess, there were three trains every two hours to Manchester (one of which extended to Scotland) and one train every two hours that ran to Liverpool. IIRC the Liverpool one was to/from Reading.
Liverpool also had the hourly Central trains service to Stanstead via Birmingham
This was replaced by a half hourly Virgin service to Manchester and a half hourly Central Trains EMU to Liverpool, with no service from Liverpool beyond Birmingham (and no service north of Manchester)
ETA: Back in those days the Shrewsbury line saw services using Liverpool in the north and Bristol (and beyond to Waterloo etc) in the south. Holyhead just had the one train per hour to Cardiff. How things change...
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TheExmoorBeast
Member
They could easily make the Newcastle terminator, which they're discussing about sending to Southampton run via Guildford & Fareham, that would then serve even more people, so it would serve & link the university towns & cities of Oxford, Guildford, Portsmouth (Fareham/Havant) & Southampton.
It would actually create loads of journey opportunities not only for MOP, but students, military personnel who are based at Aldershot (change Guildford or a call at North Camp), Naval personnel either at Havant/Fareham.
If they wanted to go to Brighton again, they would have trouble getting decent pathways either via Kensington/WLL & BML, Guildford & Redhill or even via Eastleigh & Fareham, there's simply too many services now.
Not that I'd want to travel on a wretched Voyager anyway, I hate the stinking things. I'd rather do multiple changes & pay a little more than travel on them. Bring back the locomotive hauled trains PLEASE!
It would actually create loads of journey opportunities not only for MOP, but students, military personnel who are based at Aldershot (change Guildford or a call at North Camp), Naval personnel either at Havant/Fareham.
If they wanted to go to Brighton again, they would have trouble getting decent pathways either via Kensington/WLL & BML, Guildford & Redhill or even via Eastleigh & Fareham, there's simply too many services now.
Not that I'd want to travel on a wretched Voyager anyway, I hate the stinking things. I'd rather do multiple changes & pay a little more than travel on them. Bring back the locomotive hauled trains PLEASE!
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NLC1072
Member
I totally agree with the expansion of Stansted Airport stations platform 2...
I don't know why they only left enough room for just three platforms there, stansted express all have to double up on the platforms with their local stratford service, and then platoform two XC services somehow get fitted around all of this through the single line tunnel... Seems to me all the train paths/platform spaces are full already, with no room for expansion there. I used to be stansted express cabin crew, and it's just a cramped arrangement.
Sorry to go so far off topic!
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