So, you're thinking of voting BNP because they're just misunderstood?

[yorkie]

The racists didn't do a "smack", I guess you're referring to a hypothetical situation or didn't see the video

Anyway great news about the racists losing all their council seats

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Anyway great news about the racists losing all their council seats

I suppose that's one thing we agree on Yorkie!

 

[the sniper]

The racists didn't do a "smack", I guess you're referring to a hypothetical situation or didn't see the video

What, you wouldn't do the same thing if someone spat in your face and you had some backup? Have you ever had someone spit in your face before?

Oh, I forgot, the young chav was a hero because he spat at someone for (whether we like it or not) exercising their right to freedom of speech... :roll:

Let's look at this another way, imagine the BNP member's had been a group of rail enthusiast instead, would you honestly now be as disproving if it had been rail enthusiasts reacting in a similar way to having had one of their friends faces spat at in the same fashion? I don't think so.

I agree with the second point you made though, it's great that the BNP have spectacularly failed in this round of elections. I suppose people with an anti-immigrant inclination were sufficiently satisfied with the Conservatives pledges. Whether that confidence is misplaced though, only time will tell I suppose. I think both Labour and the Conservatives have gone to a concerted effort to kill off the BNP, hopefully they've been successful.

 

[Geezertronic]

You have a point Sniper, although I think Yorkie is looking for a reaction by using the word "racist". Pulling the race card and tarnishing everyone with the same brush usually does provoke a reaction of some sorts unfortunately

Personally, I don't see anything racist about the event in question, it's just two groups of idiots starting something followed by a complete tw*t spitting at the guy in the suit which is the lowest of the low. If it had been the guy in the suit that spat, my reaction would be exactly the same. I'm just glad it was caught on camera for all to see the folly of both groups.

 

[Snapper]

Well, the BNP have been crushed in the election. They have lost all their Councillors in what they considered their 'strongholds of Dagenham, Burnley and Stoke, and they failed to get a single MP.

 

[Greenback]

I for oen am very glad about that, Snapper!

The trouble is that the BNP, whatever gloss they like to put on themselves ar ebasically troublemakers. They seek confrontation and conflict, and prey on the legitimate fears that many people have about economic migrants. This is where the line between immigration and racism becomes blurred. Look at the woman in Rochdale for an example fo people;s genuine concerns about the economic effect that economic immigration from the EU has on the country. That's not a racial issue, as no one is saying that a particular skin colour or nationaltiy, religion, sexuality or anything else should be banned. Yet the BNP seize on this and turn it into a 'send them all back where they came from' rant, with evil undertones of only the 'true British' (whatever that is)being allowed to live in the UK.

 

[atomicdanny]

Apparently there were about 563,743 misguided people that actually voted for the BNP!

 

[Greenback]

Out of the total electorate, that is a reassuringly small number! I think we can assume that none of their rather zealous supporters stayed at home!

 

[ChrisCooper]

I think the issue is that the main parties have finally worken up to the fact that ordinary people, like that woman, arn't happy with the immigration situation, and are taking them seriously so less people are feeling the need to vote BNP to show their disagreement with current policies. In some ways the BNP's sucess has been their downfall, by getting enough people to support them that it caused the big parties to wake up and see them as a serious threat (I'm fairly sure that had things not changed we would have at least one BNP MP now), they have adjusted their policies and listened to people's concerns, and the BNP vote has fallen sharply. Same happens with any single (or narrow) issue party, and for most it's more their goal than any serious though of getting into power. That's all the BNP seriously are, a narrow issue party getting protest votes. People don't vote for that sort of party hoping they get into power, they vote knowing they *won't* get into power, but that it registers their dislike of what else is on offer.

To be honest, I think one lesson that needs to be learned from the rise of the BNP is that we need to be more careful about labelling people. By giving people a negative lable, whether it be "racist" or "economic migrant" or whatever, it just pushes them more in that direction. I bet everyone has had situations where you've been negativly labled as something and found yourself acting more like that. It's usually one of two things, one is "hung for a sheep as a lamb", if you're going to get labled as something bad you might as well be it (especailly since one a lable is applied, it can be hard to get rid of it even when acting as far from it as possible, another similar phrase "wolf in sheep's clothing" can apply there, people believe you are still as labled, but acting different to fit in). Other is trying to turn a negative lable into a positive by embracing it and also by associating with those who are worse than you. It doesn't help with the latter that extreamists can often come across as more tollerant and open of those with less extream views, than moderates are of those with more extream views.

 

[313103]

I wonder what sniper would have done if a prospective MP with TV cameras around accused him of him being a thief, even though the mp doesnt know you and has said what he said in order to provoke a reaction. Which when you look at the video he got what he deserved 'a reaction'.

Perhaps sniper you should be in a group of 3 people, and i along with a group of burly people and a tv camera around shout across the street 'Oi which one of you is a bleedin theif'? Let me see if that gets a response.

 

[GB]

Are you seriously suggesting that spitting in someones face is an acceptable or even understandable action when someone asks if your a thief?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Having just watched both links again it seems to me that this confrontation had started before the actual clip starts so it is impossible to say what or who started it.

As for what the BNP man said, its sounds to me something along the lines of.."how many is there of us?" and not "how many of you are robbers?". Though with the accent I can understand the misinterpretation but this does not excuse the disgusting spitting action.

 

[the sniper]

I wonder what sniper would have done if a prospective MP with TV cameras around accused him of him being a thief, even though the mp doesnt know you and has said what he said in order to provoke a reaction. Which when you look at the video he got what he deserved 'a reaction'.

I would laugh! Why, are you sufficiently unhinged enough to think that fighting or spitting at people who say something to you that you don't like is sensible? Life must be a 24hr stand off for you bud...

Perhaps sniper you should be in a group of 3 people, and i along with a group of burly people and a tv camera around shout across the street 'Oi which one of you is a bleedin theif'?

Go ahead!

Anyway, is there a new extended video available now then? Please link to it if there is, as I'm sure we'd all love to see it to get a better understanding of the events leading up to the incident in question.

If there isn't and your just making it up, or hard of hearing, please read GB's post above or my earlier post here, then listen and watch the video again, this time more carefully.

Let me see if that gets a response.

Why wouldn't it? It's been my pleasure to respond to such a ridiculous post.

Are you seriously suggesting that spitting in someones face is an acceptable or even understandable action when someone asks if your a thief?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Having just watched both links again it seems to me that this confrontation had started before the actual clip starts so it is impossible to say what or who started it.

As for what the BNP man said, its sounds to me something along the lines of.."how many is there of us?" and not "how many of you are robbers?". Though with the accent I can understand the misinterpretation but this does not excuse the disgusting spitting action.

Let us see if that gets us a response.

 

[313103]

The only response i have (because that is what you want ) is that the 3 asian guys are wrong (correct?) that the white guy is absolutely right? (correct) the asian guys shouldnt have been there in the first place (correct?) the white guy had every right to be there (correct?)

Or how about this for controversy (and i know some of you are thinking this) the asian guys should go back to where they come from or if they were born here from where their parents came from and if they came from here what about the grandparents and so forth.

It would seem from what i have read in here that you have imprisoned one group whislt allowing another to get off scot free.
They are both equally guilty in my eyes however that perhaps doesnt hold sway with the thinking of some.

 

[90019]

What, you wouldn't do the same thing if someone spat in your face and you had some backup?

No.

Have you ever had someone spit in your face before?

Yes.

would you honestly now be as disproving if it had been rail enthusiasts reacting in a similar way to having had one of their friends faces spat at in the same fashion?

I would, because anyone who reacts like that is, frankly, a moron.

 

[the sniper]

The only response i have (because that is what you want ) is that: the 3 asian guys are wrong (correct?)

The one Asian guy who spat was wrong, yes.

That the white guy is absolutely right? (correct)

Absolutely right? Of course not, both parties ended up as bad as each other, but what did you expect him to do after having his face spat at? What would you have done?

All I'm saying is, you can't bemoan the actions of the BNP guy without equally bemoaning the actions of the lad who spat. If anything, the guy who spat should be treated with more disdain as he was the instigator of violence!

the asian guys shouldnt have been there in the first place (correct?)

We don't know what was said to make them go up to the BNP guys in the first place, so how can we say? We don't even know who the instigated the two sides talking!

the white guy had every right to be there (correct?)

What, on the streets? Seeing as everyone in this country is entitled to freedom of speech, then yes, unfortunately, they are fully entitled to be there. Even if we don't like what certain people have to say, you can't pick and choose who has the right to freedom of speech, whether we like it or not.

Or how about this for controversy (and i know some of you are thinking this) the asian guys should go back to where they come from or if they were born here from where their parents came from and if they came from here what about the grandparents and so forth.

Ah, well done, you've brought out the racism card. I suppose it was inevitable...

The thread might as well be locked now, as anyone who disagrees with 313103 is a racist. :roll:

No.

Yes.

I would, because anyone who reacts like that is, frankly, a moron.

How did you react then, and what did your friends do? I know my friends would leap on someone who spat at my face.

 

[90019]

How did you react then, and what did your friends do? I know my friends would leap on someone who spat at my face.

We walked away, and laughed about it later.

What useful purpose would starting a fight achieve?
What good outcome do you seriously think you could get from it?

I don't fight, never have, probably never will.
IMO, people who do are idiots. Yes, I've been spat at, I've been punched, and so on, but I'm not going to get into a fight and drag myself down to their level.
I got punched in the face last year, there was blood all over the place, but I was p*ssing myself laughing within about a minute

 

[royaloak]

We walked away,

You really taught him a lesson there then!

What useful purpose would starting a fight achieve?

Teach the tw4t a proper lesson.

I got punched in the face last year, there was blood all over the place, but I was p*ssing myself laughing within about a minute

Not half as much as the aggressor was laughing AT YOU!

 

[ladydsm]

We walked away, and laughed about it later.

What useful purpose would starting a fight achieve?
What good outcome do you seriously think you could get from it?

I don't fight, never have, probably never will.
IMO, people who do are idiots. Yes, I've been spat at, I've been punched, and so on, but I'm not going to get into a fight and drag myself down to their level.
I got punched in the face last year, there was blood all over the place, but I was p*ssing myself laughing within about a minute

What do you do or say to keep getting punched and spat at you must be very annoying.

 

[90019]

You really taught him a lesson there then!

What would be the point in doing anything else?
I dunno about you, but I personally dislike being in pain.

Teach the tw4t a proper lesson.

Ah, so mindless violence and behaving like an arse is the solution then?

Not half as much as the aggressor was laughing AT YOU!

He wasn't laughing. I was.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What do you do or say to keep getting punched and spat at you must be very annoying.

Mostly, there hasn't been a reason.
I haven't been punched often. Most of the times it was drunk people.
I last got spat on a few months back walking back to the car from working in a restaurant in town on a saturday night, minding my own business. Made them think they were big men though.

 

[the sniper]

We walked away, and laughed about it later.

What useful purpose would starting a fight achieve?
What good outcome do you seriously think you could get from it?

I don't fight, never have, probably never will.
IMO, people who do are idiots. Yes, I've been spat at, I've been punched, and so on, but I'm not going to get into a fight and drag myself down to their level.
I got punched in the face last year, there was blood all over the place, but I was p*ssing myself laughing within about a minute

Hmm, so if someone spat in your face, you'd laugh? If it works for you my friend, I'm glad.

Personally, I've only been spat at once, by some wannabe hardman chav at school. After a little scuffle I took the chap to the floor with the aid of two friends, we held the guy there until a teacher turned up. The spitting dope got suspended and that turned out to be the only time I ever had any hassle at school.

If you ever have the means, I highly recommend standing up for yourself.

 

[90019]

Hmm, so if someone spat in your face, you'd laugh? If it works for you my friend, I'm glad.

Not at them at the time, no. That would aggrevate the situation. I knew the guy who punched me, not quite sure why, but I think he was under massive pressure and just snapped. I hadn't said anything or whatever, was just sitting next to him at the time.

 

[the sniper]

Not at them at the time, no. That would aggrevate the situation.

Ok, well if you can take being spat at in good spirits, then good for you. If everyone was as easy going as yourself, prisons would be very empty places indeed. Most people though like some kind of retribution when they're the victim of an attack/crime. :P

 

[90019]

Most people though like some kind of retribution when they're the victim of an attack/crime. :P

Oh, retribution, yes, just not a violent reaction, which is most likely to make it worse.

 

[313103]

Did i say that anyone who disagrees with me is racist?
No that is your assessment of my message. If you read the thread it appears to me that certain people had taken the moral high ground against the asian guy that spat at the other guy. None of us on here know what started this so none of us can really judge who was right and who was wrong. For all we know this could have been a second confrontation between these groups.

Since when do we need to lock the thread (unless of course you want it locked?).

I am afraid that until someone doesn't take sides and looks at both sides equally we are just going to agree to disagree

 

[Donny Dave]

Question for Snapper ....

You've given this it's own topic here on RailUK, but over on WNXX (where your a moderator (same as what mine was, throw a hand grenade into the discussion and run ), you've buried it in another topic. Knowing your style of moderating, why didn't you create a topic there for the toy throwing session to be discussed?

By the way, for those who will no doubt question what I would have done in the same circumstances ....

If someone had spat on me, yes, I would have reacted. How badly? I don't know myself. I wouldn't get friends to fight for me though .....

 

[Geezertronic]

That's the problem with some people today, some people don't want to stick up for themselves for fear of being hurt.

If some Tw*t spat at me (or decided to punch me for no apparent reason other than he was under "massive pressure and just snapped"), I'd deal with him because next time he could spit at a woman or an older person who can't stick up for themselves. At least if I stuck up for myself, he'd think twice about doing it to someone else.

 

[ladydsm]

I think that any man that walks away is a wimp and if I was going out with such a guy he would soon be dumped.

 

[313103]

Do we know if the person who spat was assaulted before hand?

If not why are we still taking the moral high ground?

 

[ladydsm]

Do we know if the person who spat was assaulted before hand?

If not why are we still taking the moral high ground?

Keith take a look at the video the guy in the suit was arguing with the fat Asian guy and the young Asian on the left spat in the face of the guy in the suit He was not assaulted before he spat, case closed.

 

[the sniper]

Did i say that anyone who disagrees with me is racist?

Why did you even bring the race issue into this? For you to have brought it up you must believe that people here are against the guy who spat because he's Asian! You even say "and i know some of you are thinking this"! Erm, correction, we know you were thinking it.

Reading the thread (as you suggest :roll: ) it's apparent that many of us object to the guy spitting as it was totally uncalled for, he was the one that brought physical violence into the equation. People like myself are pointing out that the BNP guy was just reacting to having his face spat at, like the majority of people would. You can't be critical of the BNP guy without be equally or more critical of the guy who spat.

None of us on here know what started this so none of us can really judge who was right and who was wrong.

We know who started the physical aspect of the confrontation.

For all we know this could have been a second confrontation between these groups.

If there'd been another fight before this video, both sides would look considerably more ruffled then they were when they walk over. Also, a previous confrontation hasn't been mentioned in any of the reports I've read of the incident, not even reports that I've seen that treat the spitter like the new messiah mention any prior physical confrontation.

Since when do we need to lock the thread (unless of course you want it locked?).

This was just me being frustrated at what I perceived as an accusation of racism aimed at anyone who doesn't treat the BNP guy as the ultimate villain for responding to the spitter, you now say you didn't mean that though, so reasonable discussion can continue.

I am afraid that until someone doesn't take sides and looks at both sides equally we are just going to agree to disagree

We have been balanced! If we weren't being balanced we'd all be bemoaning the actions of the BNP guy and ignoring that he was just responding to being spat at!

Do we know if the person who spat was assaulted before hand?

If not why are we still taking the moral high ground?

Well, none of the reports of the incident that I've seen have mentioned any previous assault, and seeing as neither side looked at all like they'd already been involved in a fight beforehand, I think it's pretty safe to say there'd been no assault before the spitting incident.

Equally, we don't know who started the two sides taking, for all we know the BNP guys might have just been keeping themselves to themselves canvassing when the Asian chaps started shouting abuse and called them criminals, to which the BNP guy replied "How many o' us are robbers". In this totally hypothetical situation the Asian guys would be the ones that are totally in the wrong. :roll:

See, using your imagination you can drag this debate anyway you like, so lets keep to the facts that are presented to us, heh? Everything else is pure conjecture.