Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[WideRanger]

Any suggestion for branding of these trains yet? Given the trend for names that reflect geographic areas (Meridians, Azumas) and the country of heritage (Pendelinos, Azumas again), here's my suggestion. 'Chuo' - sounds quite 'trainy', and is the Japanese word for central or middle. Even the word written in Japanese 中央 seems ripe for turning into a logo...

 

[Raul_Duke]

I don’t believe an extra engine will provide a match in performance with 222 on diesel power. Every 222 vehicle is powered whereas only 4/5 of an 804 will be powered and it will be heavier due to the transformer equipment.

Enhanced 800s and 802s demonstrate their superiority both in acceleration from a stand and above 100 mph in electric mode compared with 22x.

A meridian will keep time reasonably happily with 1/5, 1/7 or 2/10 engines out*, so it’s possibly not as much of an issue.

*In fact ECS mode knocks all the hotel electrics + AC + an engine out and will still keep to passenger timings.

 

[irish_rail]

Any suggestion for branding of these trains yet? Given the trend for names that reflect geographic areas (Meridians, Azumas) and the country of heritage (Pendelinos, Azumas again), here's my suggestion. 'Chuo' - sounds quite 'trainy', and is the Japanese word for central or middle. Even the word written in Japanese 中央 seems ripe for turning into a logo...

Please no. If only intercity express train could be used across all franchises , much like HST was. Far less tacky and gimmicky.

 

[Domh245]

EMR have their 'EMR intercity' brand, alongside electrics and regional, so I'd be surprised if they adopted a name like azuma, voyager, or pendelino for the new trains. At a push they may get a name with 'intercity' in them, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had a specific name at all!

 

[J-2739]

Any suggestion for branding of these trains yet? Given the trend for names that reflect geographic areas (Meridians, Azumas) and the country of heritage (Pendelinos, Azumas again), here's my suggestion. 'Chuo' - sounds quite 'trainy', and is the Japanese word for central or middle. Even the word written in Japanese 中央 seems ripe for turning into a logo...

Perhaps they could name the 804s 'Chuo Chuo Trains'!

Please no. If only intercity express train could be used across all franchises , much like HST was. Far less tacky and gimmicky.

It's not the name, but how they execute it. 'Azuma' only means 'east' in Japanese, but thanks to VTEC/LNER, it is used to describe infer the supposed ultra high speed of the 800/1s in the gimmicky way you mention.

 

[Speed43125]

Perhaps they could name the 804s 'Chuo Chuo Trains'!

NO. This branding is so awful, I understand most monolinguals won't understand, but when a 'foreign' language is used for branding purely because the language is seen as exotic, it's so cheesy if you understand it.
Imagine you visited australia and they'd branded XPTs as something dumb like repeating a random word twice.

Stick with EMR intercity, and perhaps IET for the individual train type.

 

[greatvoyager]

EMR have their 'EMR intercity' brand, alongside electrics and regional, so I'd be surprised if they adopted a name like azuma, voyager, or pendelino for the new trains. At a push they may get a name with 'intercity' in them, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had a specific name at all!

I guess it depends on whether the facelifting that EMR 804s have is also sufficient to give them a unique name, or if EMR want to do some marketing.
The Meridians are part of the Bombardier Voyager Family, but aren't called Voyagers, partially as they are a modified and face lifted version but also because of the geographical area.
The way I see it, IET is the name given to our long distance AT300s, rather than just calling them AT300s.

 

[greatvoyager]

NO. This branding is so awful, I understand most monolinguals won't understand, but when a 'foreign' language is used for branding purely because the language is seen as exotic, it's so cheesy if you understand it.
Imagine you visited australia and they'd branded XPTs as something dumb like repeating a random word twice.

Stick with EMR intercity, and perhaps IET for the individual train type.

Isn't EMR Intercity the name of the service, rather than the actual units themselves?

 

[Speed43125]

Isn't EMR Intercity the name of the service, rather than the actual units themselves?

That's correct yes. I suggest IET for the train type, or else a slight evolution on 'meridian'

 

[J-2739]

NO. This branding is so awful, I understand most monolinguals won't understand, but when a 'foreign' language is used for branding purely because the language is seen as exotic, it's so cheesy if you understand it.
Imagine you visited australia and they'd branded XPTs as something dumb like repeating a random word twice.

Stick with EMR intercity, and perhaps IET for the individual train type.

I was really being serious with that suggestion, although I wouldn't say that "chuo chuo train" is random, as 'chuo' is Japanese for 'middle' (EMR operate in the Midlands), and it almost sounds like 'choo choo' (actually, that does sound quite childish).

In the end though, naming the 804s probably isn't top priority.

 

[duffield]

Does the 'composite' in 'Motor Composite' mean (as I would expect) that it's part 1st and part standard class, like some of the Meridian coaches, or does it mean something else?

 

[hooverboy]

I was really being serious with that suggestion, although I wouldn't say that "chuo chuo train" is random, as 'chuo' is Japanese for 'middle' (EMR operate in the Midlands), and it almost sounds like 'choo choo' (actually, that does sound quite childish).

In the end though, naming the 804s probably isn't top priority.

EMR missed a trick really.

should have gone for an all black livery.
then we could have "darth vaders" to accompany the 700's, which seem to be getting the nickname "stormtroopers"

 

[Kneedown]

That's correct yes. I suggest IET for the train type, or else a slight evolution on 'meridian'

My suggestion would be "Wyvern" as a nod to the old Midland Railway emblem.

 

[irish_rail]

I was really being serious with that suggestion, although I wouldn't say that "chuo chuo train" is random, as 'chuo' is Japanese for 'middle' (EMR operate in the Midlands), and it almost sounds like 'choo choo' (actually, that does sound quite childish).

In the end though, naming the 804s probably isn't top priority.

Why this obsession with Japan? The train happens to he Japanese designed but we are the customer and I don't quite get this need to honour the Japanese just because they have sold us a product .

 

[Energy]

Why this obsession with Japan? The train happens to he Japanese designed but we are the customer and I don't quite get this need to honour the Japanese just because they have sold us a product .

Agreed, we buy plenty of trains from Germany (Siemens), France (Alstom) and Canada (Bombardier, the factory is in the UK and so is Hitachi's (well Hitachi's assembly plant)) but these aren't advertised.

 

[J-2739]

Why this obsession with Japan? The train happens to he Japanese designed but we are the customer and I don't quite get this need to honour the Japanese just because they have sold us a product .

I've already stated that I wasn't being serious.

 

[greatvoyager]

Does the 'composite' in 'Motor Composite' mean (as I would expect) that it's part 1st and part standard class, like some of the Meridian coaches, or does it mean something else?

That's exactly what it means.

 

[greatvoyager]

Agreed, we buy plenty of trains from Germany (Siemens), France (Alstom) and Canada (Bombardier, the factory is in the UK and so is Hitachi's (well Hitachi's assembly plant)) but these aren't advertised.

Perhaps the link between Japan and the bullet train, promoting the speed?

 

[duffield]

That's exactly what it means.

Thanks. I wonder what the balance between 1st and standard will be in these composite coaches? Maybe not decided yet...

 

[greatvoyager]

Thanks. I wonder what the balance between 1st and standard will be in these composite coaches? Maybe not decided yet...

I'd imagine it will be similar ratio to other IETs, but seeing as these are ordered by the operator and not DfT, maybe they will specify differently? As you say, problably still being decided.

 

[43055]

Thanks. I wonder what the balance between 1st and standard will be in these composite coaches? Maybe not decided yet...

Possibly/Possibly not. From the other orders it looks like its a 1/3 to 2/3 ratio as Hull Trains and GWR have more standard class while LNER have more first class. It is a difficult one to call because on a peak time train to/from London you can fill the 3 coaches of First Class on a 7 car 222 while at most other times you have full and standing in standard class.

 

[greatvoyager]

Possibly/Possibly not. From the other orders it looks like its a 1/3 to 2/3 ratio as Hull Trains and GWR have more standard class while LNER have more first class. It is a difficult one to call because on a peak time train to/from London you can fill the 3 coaches of First Class on a 7 car 222 while at most other times you have full and standing in standard class.

Another thing to consider would be the size of the kitchen in the DTF, as the GWR / LNER ones have 3 windows darkened for it, whereas the Hull Trains / TransPennine Express fleets have 2 windows darkened.
Then again, it will probably be something along the lines of the 5-car 222. Is the shorter length of the 804 carriages still longer than the 22x carriages?

 

[greatvoyager]

EMR missed a trick really.

should have gone for an all black livery.
then we could have "darth vaders" to accompany the 700's, which seem to be getting the nickname "stormtroopers"

Darth Vaders... I like that idea, but wasn't that what the class 460s were nicknamed?
Abellio don't seem to be introducing names for class types on other fleets, so probably IET will be what we get.

 

[Doomotron]

I look at names of trains (both the classes and individual units) and I see things that are either ridiculous (Azuma), incomprehensible (IET) or meaningless (Old Oak Common - HST Depot 1976-2018) and I think, why don't they give them sensible names or names that are easy to understand. Why don't they just call them Gary?

In seriousness, I don't see the need to name trains.

 

[greatvoyager]

Will the shorter carriages and one more engine than other 5-car 80x units result in even faster acceleration?

 

[Energy]

Will the shorter carriages and one more engine than other 5-car 80x units result in even faster acceleration?

Probably, the 800s had a software limit as well.

 

[greatvoyager]

Probably, the 800s had a software limit as well.

Oh yes, I forgot about that.

 

[hexagon789]

Unless the current 80x are particularly empty underneath the solebar, that seems a bold way forward. 2 engines and sets of exhaust treatment (vice 1), large fuel tank to feed both engines, and the traction electronics, in a shorter vehicle (or best case equivalent if the outer overhangs get trimmed) - and that's before considering the cooling for it all, which must also be a worry given the reports of 80xs operating with engines out because of overheating this summer just gone!

I definitely got that from somewhere, it's not just myself making an assumption.

 

[hexagon789]

Would 2 engines per motor car not make those coaches exceedingly heavy?

No idea, but it's not uncommon in Europe with quite powerful engines at that and has been done before in Britain.

 

[Helvellyn]

I really would be surprised to see EMR introduce a brand name for the 804s. Once they get the final fleets in place branding is actually quite simple:

• EMR InterCity - Class 804s
• EMR Electric - Class 360s
• EMR Regional - Class 170s