Split Season Ticket Query

[simon_train]

Is the below cheaper split season ticket a valid option even if I travel on a train that does not stop at New Cross Gate when going into London Terminals. As per NRCoT 14.2 below it would seem its valid, but I would like to check?

Instead of Plumpton -> Z1-6 Travelcard

Two Tickets:
Plumpton -> New Cross Gate
New Cross Gate -> Z1-2 TravelCard

As per NRCOT 14.2 :

14.1. Unless shown below, you may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train services you use call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another.
14.2. If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid

 

[hkstudent]

Is the below cheaper split season ticket a valid option even if I travel on a train that does not stop at New Cross Gate when going into London Terminals. As per NRCoT 14.2 below it would seem its valid, but I would like to check?

Instead of Plumpton -> Z1-6 Travelcard

Two Tickets:
Plumpton -> New Cross Gate
New Cross Gate -> Z1-2 TravelCard

As per NRCOT 14.2 :

14.1. Unless shown below, you may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train services you use call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another.
14.2. If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid

Yes, but only if the train passes through New Cross Gate. Just like the Sevenoaks - New Cross case.
However, since most trains from Plumpton to London are terminated at London Victoria, which doesn't pass through New Cross Gate, you may not be able to use the ticket on that route.

If you need to take trains to Victoria and still want to enjoy terminus availability, I would suggest you to split at East Croydon and get a Zone 1-5 Travelcard.

 

[simon_train]

Good point - But 99% of the time I go to London Bridge. So this would cover all the London Bridge trains as they have to go via New Cross Gate?

 

[hkstudent]

Good point - But 99% of the time I go to London Bridge. So this would cover all the London Bridge trains as they have to go via New Cross Gate?

If you change trains at East Croydon for London Bridge trains, then yes.
BTW, if you don't need to take Underground or Buses, then Travelcard may not be that useful.

 

[maniacmartin]

The Appropriate Routeing Points for the first ticket are Wivelsfield and New Cross Gate. The only mapped route is LB.
Wivelsfield to New Cross Gate can be traced via Clapham Junction and London Group, so you don't have to go via Sydenham to get to New Cross Gate. (e.g. you could go via Clapham Junction, Waterloo, Waterloo East and London Bridge). Things are as bit less clear-cut if you want to go via Victoria, as the ticket would have no Maltese Cross.

Using the other ticket at London Terminal gates will save a lot of hassle, as its a Travelcard so trivially valid.

 

[hkstudent]

The Appropriate Routeing Points for the first ticket are Wivelsfield and New Cross Gate. The only mapped route is LB.
Wivelsfield to New Cross Gate can be traced via Clapham Junction and London Group, so you don't have to go via Sydenham to get to New Cross Gate. (e.g. you could go via Clapham Junction, Waterloo, Waterloo East and London Bridge). Things are as bit less clear-cut if you want to go via Victoria, as the ticket would have no Maltese Cross.

Using the other ticket at London Terminal gates will save a lot of hassle, as its a Travelcard so trivially valid.

Indeed, I think what OP planned is to change at East Croydon for London Bridge trains...

 

[kieron]

Wivelsfield to New Cross Gate can be traced via Clapham Junction and London Group, so you don't have to go via Sydenham to get to New Cross Gate.

Plumpton-New Cross Gate seasons have a "not via London" route, so I don't think you can include any routes which go through London Group.

I'd favour a Plumpton-Rotherhithe season ticket for that reason. It costs the same, and using Wivelsfield and Surrey Quays as routeing points gives you LB+EL as a map combination rather than LB, adding a number of options including taking Southern to Clapham Junction followed by London Overground anticlockwise to Rotherhithe.

There may be a cheaper option out there which meets simon_train's needs, but I haven't looked for one.

 

[hkstudent]

Plumpton-New Cross Gate seasons have a "not via London" route, so I don't think you can include any routes which go through London Group.

I'd favour a Plumpton-Rotherhithe season ticket for that reason. It costs the same, and using Wivelsfield and Surrey Quays as routeing points gives you LB+EL as a map combination rather than LB, adding a number of options including taking Southern to Clapham Junction followed by London Overground anticlockwise to Rotherhithe.

There may be a cheaper option out there which meets simon_train's needs, but I haven't looked for one.

"Removed for not accurate information"

 

[JB_B]

"Not via London" means not via London Terminals, doesn't mean not London Group.

London Terminals Fares Group [1072] and London Routeing Point Group [G01] are distinct concepts but their members are exactly the same set of stations.

 

[bb21]

"Not via London" means not via London Terminals, doesn't mean not London Group.

Who told you that?

Even Fares Advisors on the forum cannot reach consensus on that and there is plenty of conflicting material in the Routeing Guide and its implementation.

Once again, before you present any claims as fact, please ensure its accuracy. This isn't the first time you made such misleading claims.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Fares groups have nothing to do with the routeing guide; routes are always between two individual stations. I think the only possible interpretation is that it means not via London Group. Although that is a moot point here, but slightly more meaningful for some other places where there is a fares group and a routeing group with the same name but different membership. Worcester comes to mind, where a "VIA WORCESTER" fare can be used via Droitwich Spa.