Locos and Stock in Nuclear Bunkers?

[Dolive22]

Moonrakerx, I assume you are pouring cold water on the Corsham Computer Centre as bunker theory. You probably have a point. From what I remember of a (channel 4?) documentary about it he entrance was sort of buried, but with what I know now it doesn't look like the entrance to a abunker. Too much glass.

I had heard that the RLC trained once on steam engines. I wasn't aware of the significance otherwise I would have mentioned it. The press release I saw only mentioned doing it once. Whether it was the first time or they just wanted to play it down for some reason I don't know.

I would be surprised if the bunker was above box tunnel. It is very big, and building it above the tunnel would reduce the distance of rock and soil to absorb gamma rays and withstand blasts. Building over or under the tunnel would also leave a band across the bunker exposed with relatively little protection to any fallout blown in to the tunnel.

I have seen a number of sources suggesting that the evacuation was to be by helicopter, however tempting using the train line seems. I am inclined to believe that what has come out is genuine, simply because it has come out so messily that I don't think the security services could organise it without some people smelling a rat.

Kelvedon Hatch is a nice place to visit, although I haven't been in years. Is it still pretty much unmanned? I remember an honesty box in the gift shop/canteen/small pile of chocolate bars and crisps at the exit.

I don't think a train would have to go from storage in a tunnel to paddington and back in 4 minutes, at least in government plans. They had very optimistics plans, which expected a long transition to war over months, with time to pass three acts of parliament in three phases of transition to war. Their plans would hav expected complete militaristion of the railway by that point.

The factory didn't produce much because it was a failover/backup site for the main factory. In the event, the factory was never seriously damaged so very little happened at the back up site.

 

[moonrakerz]

Moonrakerx, I assume you are pouring cold water on the Corsham Computer Centre as bunker theory. You probably have a point. From what I remember of a (channel 4?) documentary about it he entrance was sort of buried, but with what I know now it doesn't look like the entrance to a abunker. Too much glass.

Much cold water indeed, as I know exactly what CCC does having been down there.

I love reading the garbage that the conspiracy theorists come up with. The problem is that the cranks actually make up things: this is an oft quoted one;

"And the Ministry of Defence press office still have the cheek to deny that there are underground facilities in Corsham"

MoD has NEVER denied that there are "underground facilities in Corsham" - but of course the conspiracy theorists won't acknowledge this as it would blow all their stupid ideas apart !

Another really good one is that it is a "tracking radar for detecting submarines" !!!!

Apparently there is also an identical facility half way up a mountain in Greece - Yeah !

And as it is just down the road from RAF Rudloe Manor it is where they keep the crashed UFO and the dead aliens ( and the live ones, I have heard !!!!)

I could refer you to a more "outlandish" or "mundane" use:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsham_Computer_Centre

But of course I could not comment on the veracity or otherwise of the Wiki article !!!

 

[yorksrob]

Kelvedon Hatch is a nice place to visit, although I haven't been in years. Is it still pretty much unmanned? I remember an honesty box in the gift shop/canteen/small pile of chocolate bars and crisps at the exit.

Yes, it was still there when I visited earlier in the year (although there was someone serving in the canteen). Incidentally, the Ongar branch closed at about the same time that Kelvedon was de-comissioned so perhaps they were planning to evacuate officials via the Central line!

From the photos of the equipment at Corsham it looks as though they gave up it some time before the bunker network as a whole was closed in the early nineties.

 

[boing_uk]

The fact is that most people loves a good conspiracy theory - Big Gumminmint walkin' over the small people.. and all that.

Now, I will admit, I absolutely LOVED the Mark Thomas Product... its a shame such a programme isnt still running on C4, as it would have made this election oh so much more insightful.. to see whos getting what, and what other little 'orrid things the Govt are up to.

But that aside, there are some barmy things people think that even local councils are capable of.

The Landlord of a pub I used to drink in was very much anti-government, anti-CCTV.. just about everything. He was convinced that the council run CCTV system could be tapped in to by the security services and everything monitored by Big Brother.

He just could not be convinced that such a thing was a physical impossibility, as each camera was fibre linked to the main matrix and the only connections in to the main matrix were the connections to the cameras. That there wasnt facial recognition software on the cameras etc etc. As the conversation went on, it got to the point where I was "in on it"!!

what I think happens is that people:

a) see something they dont understand
b) hear stories of technological advancement
c) hear other conspiracy theories
d) old government documents are declassified

and they come up with wild and fanciful ideas. i mean, take the Denver Airport issue... the conspiracy theorists are convinced that Denver Airport is going to be the base of an Illuminati take-over of the world and that it has Illuminati inspired murals and stonework and is a portent to the mass genocide of the population with an artificial virus.

Or, more likely, its a big airport with some artwork in it.

People will see what they want to see, especially when it is something they do not understand or have pre-conceived ideas about.

Sure, government workings are sinister sometimes... but not ALL the time. Because most of the Government workers are just people like you and me, who go home after work and have dinner with a family, or go and get drunk at the weekend.

 

[Greenback]

what I think happens is that people:

a) see something they dont understand
b) hear stories of technological advancement
c) hear other conspiracy theories
d) old government documents are declassified

and they come up with wild and fanciful ideas. i mean, take the Denver Airport issue... the conspiracy theorists are convinced that Denver Airport is going to be the base of an Illuminati take-over of the world and that it has Illuminati inspired murals and stonework and is a portent to the mass genocide of the population with an artificial virus.

Or, more likely, its a big airport with some artwork in it.

People will see what they want to see, especially when it is something they do not understand or have pre-conceived ideas about.

Sure, government workings are sinister sometimes... but not ALL the time. Because most of the Government workers are just people like you and me, who go home after work and have dinner with a family, or go and get drunk at the weekend.

They also watch Spooks, which they think is a documentary.

Then they read some internet rantings about AIDS and think 'that must be the genocide virus, therefore the illumanit stories about Denver Airport are obviously true'.

In this way, we can see that TV and the internet have helped to fuel conspiracy theories as well as Dan Brown!

 

[tbtc]

What I find funny is that the same people who claim there's a secret Government plan to hand the country over to the Mafia/ Illuminati/ Russians/ Aliens (which hasn't been leaked into the public) are the same people who claim that the "useless" Government can't be trusted to do "mundane" things (like emptying bins, or clean hospitals etc)

The worrying thing about the internet is that it encourages this myopia and allows people to find fellow nutters (away from the evidence-based world)

 

[moonrakerz]

Then they read some internet rantings about AIDS and think 'that must be the genocide virus, therefore the illumanit stories about Denver Airport are obviously true'.

Denver Airport had mega problems with its baggage handling system, just like Terminal 5 ............................. O M G !!!!!!!!

 

[ChrisCooper]

The other thing annoying with these wild cospiracy theories is that they tend to draw attentiona away from the smaller issues that are possibly more real. It tends to divide people into 2 extreams, those that follow the official line. and those that see conspiracies everywhere. Of cource the irony is that both sides will accuse the other of being closed minded, and use terms like "sheep", which to be honest does fit both sides, when the real open minded "free thinkers" tend to sit closer to the middle (mostly well on the "rational" side of the middle).
Of cource, one of the main enemies of consipracy theories is Occam's Razor, basically "the simplest solution is usually the correct one". Consiparcies are rarely simple. It's like the Moon landings, I think the difficulty of faking the landings, especially in the days before CGI (not that modern CGI is anything like flawless) would have been such that actually taking men to the moon was the easiest solution. Beyond the "cosmic radiation" theory, it's not like there is a real argument of why they could not have got to the moon. The other problem with the big conspiracies is keeping them secret. I find it hard to believe in any conspiracy that would require the number of people "in on it" to get into double figures. AFAIK no major conspiacy theory has ever unearthed a single person supposedly involved who had provided even the slightest hint that there might be something funny going on.

 

[boing_uk]

And therein lies the problem. To fake the moon landings would have taken literally HUNDREDS of people to be in on the whole thing.. even if the feed to Houston was faked. It would have taken a large number of studio-trained special effects people to fake such a landing... and not only that, they would have had to be people who were fairly highly regarded in said profession...

Those people just didnt disappear did they? All those matte artists capable of manipulating the moon landing footage filmed on earth disposed of in one go, without one person letting slip?

The more people who are involved, the more chance of a leak. The best conspiracy is one where as few people outside of the sphere are involved.

Lets say a group of Traffic Signal Engineers got together to disrupt the UK's road transport network. Yeah we could probably get half way there, but at some point we would have to bring in outside assistance... which brings in a variable that can squawk the truth. The upshot being someone would notice what we are doing.

Okay.... some might say that the current conditioning on "terror" is some kind of social engineering. And to a degree I might be inclined to agree. Certainly, the "new terror" is more pushed in the media and in the consciousness than the "old terror". And it IS very Nazi... but in a slower way...

So... one persons conspiracy is another mans agent for truth.... the information is probably out there to help people decide either way... its just up to the right people to discover - and more importantly - interpret that information and present it to a more web-savvy populace.