Suggestions for improving the service on the Wrexham-Bidston line

[Bletchleyite]

Penalty Fares, then?

 

[Glenn1969]

Or Barriers at Central?

 

[Djgr]

Or a single carriage train!

 

[rich.davies]

Or Barriers at Central?

Problem is they would have to staff it. And Central isn't the most pleasant of stations to be at.
If they put barriers at central, then i guess they would have to install them at General too.

 

[sw1ller]

Problem is they would have to staff it. And Central isn't the most pleasant of stations to be at.
If they put barriers at central, then i guess they would have to install them at General too.

Or just install them at Gwersyllt. Have it all remotely managed by the booking office in Wrexham. I’ve seen ticket inspectors on the service but they never do anything between general and gwersyllt. They just ask everyone if they have a ticket, when 95% of the train says no, they just send them to the guard, whos new ticket machine can only issue about 2 tickets in the time it takes to get to gwersyllt. The old machines were great, they could get about 10-15 tickets done. So this new ticket machine is costing them revenue.

 

[markymark2000]

I agree that Shotton is a complete mess. On my most recent visit I encountered a distressed individual (not a regular user) who had just watched their planned train to Wrexham depart from the opposite platform as they were confused by the layout. They were on their way for a job interview and set to become a regular commuter. Fortunately I was able to identify an option via the low-level platforms and changing at Chester into a late-running Holyhead-Cardiff service so they should have just made their appointment. But it did make me wonder how much other business has been lost over the years by the inadequate arrangements.

In my experience, the old barrow crossing at Shotton was really good and shouldn't have been taken away. Shotton isn't the easiest station to navigate so the barrow crossing was very useful.

Or a single carriage train!

That is coming but I can't see it making a huge difference. I know a few people who are more than happy to fare dodge on this line because in their words 'the guard doesn't care'.

 

[rich.davies]

When it's busy, I've seen people make it to Caergwrle without paying.

 

[FQ]

I've found that it really varies depending on the guard. I travel to/from Penyffordd on a fairly regular basis in both directions (more often from the north end of the line) and I have my ticket checked more often than not. I believe Shotton is the only intermediate station with ticket purchasing facilities so you need to buy on the train and I'd say that more than 75% of the time just doing Penyffordd-Buckley (one stop north) the guard will reach me. On my last journey from Penyffordd into Wrexham (on Monday afternoon) however, the guard didn't reach my coach at all (and this wasn't on a busy service). Not the first time I've had something like that either so it's easy to see where the lost revenue is.

Speaking to one of the guards a week or so ago it seems that many people refuse to buy a ticket on board, or have a Merseyrail Saveaway (valid Bidston to Heswall) and then argue about paying south of Heswall to get to Neston/Shotton/wherever. I was actually complimented when I approached him to get a ticket further south straight off the bat instead of arguing on board. In situations like these there's really not much that the guards can do on a simple branch line like that (and one where I've never come across RPIs or BTP).

 

[krus_aragon]

Or a single carriage train!

That is coming but I can't see it making a huge difference.

On the contrary, the 153s coming to the line will operate in pairs, because they've proved to be unreliable at getting up Hawarden Bank on their own.

 

[L401CJF]

The most common one on this line to avoid paying which I have noticed the past few times I have used the service, is to hide in the toilet. A few months ago I was on a service where somebody boarded at Shotton and went straight to the toilet, a woman pointed this out to the conductor who replied with "The state of that toilet is good enough punishment for not paying he can stay there" which I thought rather amusing

On the subject of tickets, I caught the last service from Bidston to Neston the other night, no sign of the conductor at any point on the journey on this occasion either.

 

[markymark2000]

On the contrary, the 153s coming to the line will operate in pairs, because they've proved to be unreliable at getting up Hawarden Bank on their own.

I didn't know that. In which case, we are no better or worse off than current.

 

[PHILIPE]

The most common one on this line to avoid paying which I have noticed the past few times I have used the service, is to hide in the toilet. A few months ago I was on a service where somebody boarded at Shotton and went straight to the toilet, a woman pointed this out to the conductor who replied with "The state of that toilet is good enough punishment for not paying he can stay there" which I thought rather amusing

On the subject of tickets, I caught the last service from Bidston to Neston the other night, no sign of the conductor at any point on the journey on this occasion either.

Hardly surprising on the last train these days without a minder

 

[krus_aragon]

I didn't know that. In which case, we are no better or worse off than current.

For context, the reason for sending pairs of 153s to relapce 150s is that as 23m stock, they can't work the valleys north of Radyr (which is where Pacers need to be replaced pretty sharpish).

 

[sw1ller]

The lack of guard is rarely down to the guard being lazy. I know no one has said this, but it reads as such. Most times it’s because the battery has gone in their machine, it’s logged them out and they can’t log back in or, and this ones a cracker, the lock on the door to where the ticket machines in Chester has broken meaning if a guard finished after 6pm they couldn’t take a machine out with them at all. These machines really are a massive hindrance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The lack of guard is rarely down to the guard being lazy. I know no one has said this, but it reads as such. Most times it’s because the battery has gone in their machine, it’s logged them out and they can’t log back in or, and this ones a cracker, the lock on the door to where the ticket machines in Chester has broken meaning if a guard finished after 6pm they couldn’t take a machine out with them at all. These machines really are a massive hindrance.

Using a S&B TVM I can buy a walk-up ticket within about 20 to 30 seconds. There really isn't any excuse for the UI of these machines to be any worse.

 

[geoffk]

If I was doing a full fat job on the line I would be tempted to close Bidston and open a replacement a bit along the Wrexham line, at the old road bridge. Takes a stop and slow conflict out of the West Kirby line and puts the station nearer the housing.

How about extension to Birkenhead North, where there is a third platform not generally used? Wouldn't work with the current timetable but with a half-hourly service and one train an hour maybe missing some of the smaller stations it could be a possibility.

 

[Sprinter153]

Using a S&B TVM I can buy a walk-up ticket within about 20 to 30 seconds. There really isn't any excuse for the UI of these machines to be any worse.

The thing with the old Avantix machines is that they were quick because they had a typical unfussy Windows CE interface that just did the job as long as you knew the fare codes and where everything was. The Star Mobile interface is more ‘user friendly’ for the beginner and looks prettier but is much less intuitive (to me at least).

For example I could do an excess in 30 seconds on Avantix, it’s more like 2-3 minutes on Star.

 

[markymark2000]

How about extension to Birkenhead North, where there is a third platform not generally used? Wouldn't work with the current timetable but with a half-hourly service and one train an hour maybe missing some of the smaller stations it could be a possibility.

This could work but 1, you would need some points from Platform 1 onto the westbound track (or the train would be using the slow line though the depot) and also, I don't think it would work in practise as the user group for this line is very proactive and will go ape if they find out any stops are being missed out.

 

[Gareth]

Ideally, it needs a third track between Bidston and Birkenhead North to avoid conflict with Merseyrail services as well.

 

[Red1980]

The most common one on this line to avoid paying which I have noticed the past few times I have used the service, is to hide in the toilet. A few months ago I was on a service where somebody boarded at Shotton and went straight to the toilet, a woman pointed this out to the conductor who replied with "The state of that toilet is good enough punishment for not paying he can stay there" which I thought rather amusing

On the subject of tickets, I caught the last service from Bidston to Neston the other night, no sign of the conductor at any point on the journey on this occasion either.

I don't blame the guard in the slightest for not coming out on the last one!....have you seen that line at night? It's like a cross between Psycho, the Munsters and the hills have eyes!

Some of the abuse I've seen staff members receive on that line for doing nothing more than request tickets is frankly disgusting. It's the old dears that rely on the line I feel sorry for having to share trains with some of the filth down there....... There's a vast number of folk down there that doesn't even deserve a service.

 

[geoffk]

Ideally, it needs a third track between Bidston and Birkenhead North to avoid conflict with Merseyrail services as well.

The service used to terminate at Birkenhead North (1971 - 8). I believe it used platform 2 then, with Liverpool-bound trains using 1

 

[Bletchleyite]

The service used to terminate at Birkenhead North (1971 - 8). I believe it used platform 2 then, with Liverpool-bound trains using 1

I'm unconvinced that there's any benefit in extending it anywhere other than Liverpool as a terminus, as the vast majority of passengers are going to Liverpool and so will need to change anyway.

 

[markymark2000]

I'm unconvinced that there's any benefit in extending it anywhere other than Liverpool as a terminus, as the vast majority of passengers are going to Liverpool and so will need to change anyway.

I think it's the point of Birkenhead North being more accessible and having more trains through to Liverpool thus making it easier for connections.

 

[Sprinter107]

I had a small detour, travelling back from North Wales today, and went from Shotton to Bidston, anson to Liverpool. The connection at Shotton wasnt great. About 25 minutes. It was a mid afternoon service, but was really quite busy. No guard tho, had to buy a ticket from Bidston.

 

[Sprinter107]

Interesting to see up until the late 1960s some of the trains from Wrexham used to veer off after Hawarden Bridge and go into Chester.

 

[S&CLER]

Ideally, it needs a third track between Bidston and Birkenhead North to avoid conflict with Merseyrail services as well.

A non-conflicting junction at Bidston East to remove conflict with New Brighton services would do more to keep things fluid on the Wirral line. It is the main constraint on the line as it stands, and would become even more so if electrification to Shotton brought a Merseyrail frequency of 4 tph.

 

[markymark2000]

What is wrong with the Bidston East flat junction?

The Hooton junction copes fine with 6TPH, the Bidston East junction is very similar.

 

[B&I]

Interesting to see up until the late 1960s some of the trains from Wrexham used to veer off after Hawarden Bridge and go into Chester.

Re-opening from Dee Marsh to Chester would be very useful, assuming you could connect to Chester General at the east end. Merseyrail could run a second Chester service from Liverpool via Birkenhead North and the mid-Wirral line (assuming electrification of viable battery trains). The Wrexham Central service would then divert to Chester, which would presumably be at least as popular a destination from stations between Shotton and Wrexham as Bidston. Hawarden Bridge could then be replaced with a Deeside station at Dee Marsh Junction, with services timed to enable quick transfer between the two halves of what are currently the Borderlands Line. Re-opened stations at Blacon and (perhaps) Saughall would also be useful.

 

[Mogz]

I think the trackbed is now a cycle path, but that’s not to say that it couldn’t be rebuilt with the cycle path realigned alongside.

I think the above is a fantastic idea.

 

[Anonymous10]

For context, the reason for sending pairs of 153s to relapce 150s is that as 23m stock, they can't work the valleys north of Radyr (which is where Pacers need to be replaced pretty sharpish).

Pacers now in use In west west instead before the halt for works at least one was doing it back and forth all day had days where only see Pacers here which is abnormal