WCML Pendolino refurbishment suggestions and predictions

[Jozhua]

Having a USB charger as well (rather than just the plug socket like the 80xs) would be a big improvement

Hardly ever used the shop, since the rise of supermarket convenience stores it's so easy to stock up beforehand. It's not as if the majority of UK rail journeys are very long anyway

Personally I prefer a plug over USB, but prefer USB over nothing. Plugs are useful because I can plug in a laptop, or use the fast charger on my mobile phone. Both like the 185's is best though, probably the only redeeming feature of them from a passenger perspective!

The current situation is a bit rubbish though, even when the Pendos were built it must have been an unusual omission compared to other trains of the time?

 

[Mikey C]

Personally I prefer a plug over USB, but prefer USB over nothing. Plugs are useful because I can plug in a laptop, or use the fast charger on my mobile phone. Both like the 185's is best though, probably the only redeeming feature of them from a passenger perspective!

The current situation is a bit rubbish though, even when the Pendos were built it must have been an unusual omission compared to other trains of the time?

For phone charging, it's more convenient to have a USB lead in your pocket than a plug as well. Certainly the plug socket is needed for laptops etc

I can't remember whether 20 years ago plug sockets were common on new express trains, but it was a pre smart phone era so people were far less dependant on their own electronic devices, and Virgin's big "advance" was the onboard music channels!

 

[hexagon789]

The current situation is a bit rubbish though, even when the Pendos were built it must have been an unusual omission compared to other trains of the time?

I don't think all that many trains had plug sockets at the time, I don't believe the Mk2f/Mk3s did though they had payphones in some first class coaches.

 

[Bletchleyite]

USB would have been pointless in 2001, everything still has its own charger back then.

That said, adding USB to mains sockets is a simple and cheap faceplate swap.

 

[marko2]

In the days before widespread mobile-phones, how did the payphones on board trains operate? I can remember them.

 

[LOL The Irony]

In the days before widespread mobile-phones, how did the payphones on board trains operate? I can remember them.

Cellular devices did exist before the mobile phone. The first mobile phones were carphones.

 

[Skie]

There are already USB sockets on some 390's but it's really rare. Only seen it twice, both times in Standard.

 

[Jozhua]

There are already USB sockets on some 390's but it's really rare. Only seen it twice, both times in Standard.

An additional four trains were built between 2009 and 2012, so that might be one of those!

 

[GrimShady]

It depends how it's publicised. GWR seems to have had little but hatred for their 80x, and yet everyone seems to love LNER's version, which is no different other than in the colour scheme and presence of a buffet counter. I've not heard a slating for TPE's use of the same seats in their CAF stock, either.

LNERs version is equally as rubbish. I can't believe just how bad these 'modern' trains are.

 

[route101]

I don't think all that many trains had plug sockets at the time, I don't believe the Mk2f/Mk3s did though they had payphones in some first class coaches.

GNER mk4s , might of been some of the first along with scotrail 170s in first class?

 

[BucksBones]

LNERs version is equally as rubbish. I can't believe just how bad these 'modern' trains are.

If the seats were more comfortable I don’t think many people would complain about either version...

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the seats were more comfortable I don’t think many people would complain about either version...

But my point was that despite the seats being exactly the same as on GWR (other than the original fabric covers which did seem less comfortable) with exactly the same cushions etc, people seem to complain lots about GWR's but not about LNER's, and feedback about TPE's seems good so far.

As they are exactly the same barring colour scheme and publicity, those are the only things that can be affecting this perception.

 

[BucksBones]

But my point was that despite the seats being exactly the same as on GWR (other than the original fabric covers which did seem less comfortable) with exactly the same cushions etc, people seem to complain lots about GWR's but not about LNER's, and feedback about TPE's seems good so far.

As they are exactly the same barring colour scheme and publicity, those are the only things that can be affecting this perception.

I know, I was just making the unrelated point that they are fundamentally decent trains, unfortunately with rubbish seats. I don’t feel much difference with the new GWR moquette personally; they still hurt my back, as do the LNER versions.

You’re right about marketing though, it can have an amazing effect. I wonder if the name Azuma actually helps (silly as it may seem); if people are subconsciously prepared for an efficient Shinkansen-style experience maybe the hard seats are accepted as being part of that...?

Don’t think that psychology will work with the pendolinos, they’d better find some extra foam...!

 

[hexagon789]

GNER mk4s , might of been some of the first along with scotrail 170s in first class?

Possibly, sadly Platform 5 only notes the inclusion of payphones in my 2003 edition, not plug sockets.

 

[GrimShady]

If the seats were more comfortable I don’t think many people would complain about either version...

Possibly but they still have the ambiance veterinary surgery.

I've never liked Pendolinos due to the seats but at least the lighting was good.

 

[option]

And of course there's little choice from the trolley. For long journeys you cannot beat a buffet. You can eat and drink at a time of your choosing and can select both hot and cold food.

Unfortunately, First are putting forward the same arguments for Hull Trains now as they were for GWR, in that everyone preferred trolleys, at-seat service as on airlines, etc etc... Next up for the treatment will be West Coast....

Wonder if the management of First have ever been on a plane...
They go from A to B, so everyone can easily eat/drink at the same time, & is likely to want to do so.
Trains serve people going from A-B, A-C, B-D etc etc

 

[EE Andy b1]

Heard a thing yesterday (messroom gossip) about the Class 390 refurbishment in that the sets may be reversed.

What i mean is, is that the First class is going to be moved (maybe) to coaches A, B & half of C with a natural barrier of what would be an extended shop/buffet with airline type food in between first and standard. Train managers office moved.
That would be quite a down size of First class on an 11 car Pendolino to now, 4 vehicles to 2 and a half, but the 9 car 390s are only 3 first class vehicles now.
Not sure how this would work with the Kitchen coach K, but if the new food product (airline food) is open to First and Standard class passengers to order or pre-order then maybe preparation is continued here.
Not sure how it would all work but Standard class could be serviced from either end, Kitchen to shop.

It would solve one problem people don't like and that's staff taking over the first class seats in coach K!

Any thoughts?

 

[Energy]

Ideally staff would have an area for them to rest, maybe a few hidden away seats in the buffet/shop?

 

[Hazlehead]

Heard a thing yesterday (messroom gossip) about the Class 390 refurbishment in that the sets may be reversed.

What i mean is, is that the First class is going to be moved (maybe) to coaches A, B & half of C with a natural barrier of what would be an extended shop/buffet with airline type food in between first and standard. Train managers office moved.
That would be quite a down size of First class on an 11 car Pendolino to now, 4 vehicles to 2 and a half, but the 9 car 390s are only 3 first class vehicles now.
Not sure how this would work with the Kitchen coach K, but if the new food product (airline food) is open to First and Standard class passengers to order or pre-order then maybe preparation is continued here.
Not sure how it would all work but Standard class could be serviced from either end, Kitchen to shop.

It would solve one problem people don't like and that's staff taking over the first class seats in coach K!

Any thoughts?

Just Gossip I'm afraid. Seats in standard are getting replaced with thinner versions like those that will be in the new trains. Means more legroom in standard class as to alter layout dramatically would mean an expensive job of removing & reconfiguring Seat Reservation displays. First class seats same frame but with new cushions and coverings. 2 non window view seats to be taken out of 4 Std coaches to provide extra luggage space. Certain Off Peak trains being explored to convert one of the first class coaches into a Premium Economy. Same seats but without the food etc. Can't see how this can possibly work with a mix of 9/11 cars though & can see causing issues for On Board staff.

 

[Bletchleyite]

More legroom good - downside is that I guess that pretty certainly means Fainsa Sophias...more space but a sore backside!

More luggage space definitely a positive. And hopefully this means the best Standard seat (coach A seat 45) remains!

 

[Merle Haggard]

Certain Off Peak trains being explored to convert one of the first class coaches into a Premium Economy. Same seats but without the food etc. Can't see how this can possibly work with a mix of 9/11 cars though & can see causing issues for On Board staff.

Travelling on a morning down 11 car Manchester (can't remember exactly which) the on board crew remove all the cups etc from the tables in coach G after Stoke; it presumably forms an up service immediately after the availability of off peak tickets, and it's declassified. Similarly, Voyager coach D (I think, anyway, the one next to first class) has all tables and free wifi and is sometimes (though I've not seen it recently) upgraded to 1st on double workings.
I accept that of course any standard ticket holders can use these coaches when standard or declassified but possibly it's to extract a little extra fares revenue in these circumstances. Would only work if 11 car circuits were always worked by 11 cars, though...

 

[Energy]

Certain Off Peak trains being explored to convert one of the first class coaches into a Premium Economy. Same seats but without the food etc. Can't see how this can possibly work with a mix of 9/11 cars though & can see causing issues for On Board staff.

How about them all? HS2 will be the true first class and WCML can be a 2+2 premium economy, maybe economy with extra padding and extra power sockets, maybe ethernet too

 

[EE Andy b1]

I can see the fourth 1st class vehicle (G) on an 11 coach Pendolino being converted to Standard class to make the fleet all the same for 1st class whilst increasing standard capacity further with more luggage space.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How about them all? HS2 will be the true first class and WCML can be a 2+2 premium economy, maybe economy with extra padding and extra power sockets, maybe ethernet too

But these aren't refurbs for then, they're refurbs for now, and 2+2 First Class on premium WCML InterCity services is not acceptable. It's barely acceptable on the 350s.

I am slightly surprised they haven't considered converting one coach a la Voyager to sell as some sort of premium economy though. 2+2 seating but aligned to the windows with First Class spacing, better seats (FISA LEAN or Grammer IC3000), recliners and leather? Maybe they'll consider it if this idea works? It's all a bit "Purple Zone" though?

The "hybrid coach" is only used as Standard now by the way.

 

[NewSt]

I am slightly surprised they haven't considered converting one coach a la Voyager to sell as some sort of premium economy though. 2+2 seating but aligned to the windows with First Class spacing, better seats (FISA LEAN or Grammer IC3000), recliners and leather? Maybe they'll consider it if this idea works? It's all a bit "Purple Zone" though?

That’s basically Coach D, just without the extra cost.

 

[Goldfish62]

How about them all? HS2 will be the true first class and WCML can be a 2+2 premium economy, maybe economy with extra padding and extra power sockets, maybe ethernet too

Two problems with that. One is that we don't yet know about the passenger environment in the HS2 trains. One option which bidders have to submit prices for is a one class "pack 'em in" configuration. Hardly true first class. Second is that the Pendolinos will be approaching life expiry by the time the first section of HS2 opens.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s basically Coach D, just without the extra cost.

Coach D is a Standard Class coach now, before it was used for Standard or First. It wasn't however an intermediate class, it either had full First Class service at the applicable First Class fare or it was Standard and had no service.

 

[Goldfish62]

There's an article in Modern Railways about the refurbishment. The seats are of a completely new design by ForPeople (who designed the SWR and AWC brands), getting away from the "bolt upright, flat seat pan design" beloved by the DfT in an attempt to improve comfort. The shop will be turned into an "informal cafe-bar", whatever that means.

 

[greatvoyager]

There's an article in Modern Railways about the refurbishment. The seats are of a completely new design by ForPeople (who designed the SWR and AWC brands), getting away from the "bolt upright, flat seat pan design" beloved by the DfT in an attempt to improve comfort. The shop will be turned into an "informal cafe-bar", whatever that means.

That sounds interesting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's an article in Modern Railways about the refurbishment. The seats are of a completely new design by ForPeople (who designed the SWR and AWC brands), getting away from the "bolt upright, flat seat pan design" beloved by the DfT in an attempt to improve comfort. The shop will be turned into an "informal cafe-bar", whatever that means.

Ooh, good, so not Fainsa Sophia, then?

Does that mean we are going to get 80x without the dross as well?

An "informal cafe-bar"? Interesting...a DB style bistro, perhaps, or a Eurostar-style standing cafe? (Though that isn't necessarily a UK-viable model - we don't do "Stehcafes" like the Germans do).