Standard Class Ticket Holders Standing In First Class Carriages.

[mickey]

Anyway back on topic I think it would help enormously if when they declassify G they explicitly declassified it for passengers with Open tickets rather than what currently happens where typically I see a number of people on advances making a beeline for it (can't really blame them) but it then leaves seats showing as reserved and it just seems to go downhill from there (in my experience)

...And people with 'open' tickets never have reservations? To be honest, it's people with open tickets who make reservations and then ignore them who are the biggest cause of empty but reserved seats, and now you want to reward them for it!

In my opinion the best system is to declassify the coach on departure (i.e. once the train has started moving) as by then passengers will have had a chance to find empty seats, the TM is able to see how many are left standing, and it's those who are standing (presumably mostly those with no reservations anyway, no?) who are first invited to go to coach G. Luckily this is what tends to happen, at least on the routes I use most often (Euston).

 

[Broken Viking]

Regarding the power point issue: I doubt that any businessman with a half-decent and modern laptop would need to be plugged in for the whole journey. Most laptops can run for an hour or two per 30 minute charge, and even longer for netbooks. That said, a wifi/GPRS dongle will reduce that figure by 25-33% on average.

I've never witnessed any struggle for sockets before...But if the issue is really that contentious, wouldn't it be a simple matter for each train to carry a few 4-socket extension leads to solve the problem?

 

[cyclebytrain]

I don't think that people on open tickets never have reservations, but I do think they are the only people who can ever not have reservations.

In my experience out of Euston when they need to declassify G it's because there are cancellations and delays which means short boarding times with few people going all the way up to A and B, instead assuming it that because E is packed the whole train will be like that and they'd never get their seats anyway, and since there are problems they deserve declassified 1st anyway (I've heard this quite a few times whilst making my way down from A). I think that if it was obvious that they wouldn't get this, they'd make more of an effort to get to their booked seats. I might be wrong, it's just how it's seemed to me.

Death, if you use a laptop everyday on battery you are lucky to get to a year before battery life is bad enough that you'll need to plug in. There are a couple of HPs that have high cycle batteries, but that's it. And even when it's a brand new battery, if you've been using it during the day so that it isn't fully charged to start with or you are going to be using it all day and you need it fully charged at the end of the journey the lack of power can be very annoying or indeed disastrous if you planned to run through a presentation.

 

[Broken Viking]

Hmmm...The one battery powered computer I have is an Asus netbook with legendarily short battery life (As low as two hours, according to some reports!) and my main "laptop" is actually an archaic 286 job that requires constant mains supply; A portable computer. That said though, I'd be happy to share the power socket with another passenger on a "Ye charge for an hour, I'll then run for an hour, and that should work" approach.

If mains power is really that in demand for business laptops though, I might start packing a power strip.

 

[Ferret]

I'd doubt it's a law, but it's good customer service. However I would advise against detailing the exact service in case a manager is reading and decides it's too good customer service

Not law, but there is a section of the NRCoC that permits the TM to do that.

 

[Greenback]

It's a bit different being allowed to do something to saying you HAVE to do it because it's THE LAW!

 

[jon0844]

Regarding the power point issue: I doubt that any businessman with a half-decent and modern laptop would need to be plugged in for the whole journey. Most laptops can run for an hour or two per 30 minute charge, and even longer for netbooks. That said, a wifi/GPRS dongle will reduce that figure by 25-33% on average.

Get a Nokia Booklet 3G and you'll be able to get at least SEVEN hours, with a 3G data connection on its internal HSPA modem! Believe me, you won't be needing a charger with one of them!

 

[mickey]

In my experience out of Euston when they need to declassify G it's because there are cancellations and delays which means short boarding times with few people going all the way up to A and B, instead assuming it that because E is packed the whole train will be like that and they'd never get their seats anyway

I think it's more a case of 'the train's late, it might leave soon, I'll jump on here just in case' and then being too lazy to walk or push their way through the train. In this situation, however, the TM will usually announce that there are plenty of seats further forward rather than declassify G, which, in my experience, only happens if it really does look as if there are too many people for the total seats available. Most on-board staff seem (rightly) to be of the opinion that if people are too lazy to walk through the train they deserve to be cramped or have to stand.

 

[jon0844]

People do seem to panic that a train will leave early, so board through the front set of doors and walk down. Obviously, at some point, they'll encounter people moving around and sitting down, taking off jackets etc - and figure it's now too crowded to continue.

I do wonder if there's any benefit for a guard to say that the train will NOT be leaving for xx minutes, to encourage people to actually get off the train and walk along the platform to where there's more seating? Despite the platform signs showing there's 3 or 4 minutes to go, I guess people just want that reassurance.

 

[mickey]

I do wonder if there's any benefit for a guard to say that the train will NOT be leaving for xx minutes, to encourage people to actually get off the train and walk along the platform to where there's more seating? Despite the platform signs showing there's 3 or 4 minutes to go, I guess people just want that reassurance.

In this instance we were talking about a train that is delayed, in which case such a message will only annoy people more (..."What do you mean we're not leaving for another 6 minutes, we're late enough already!!"), and putting the opposite positive spin on it ("we'll be leaving in 6 minutes") gives people the impression they've got to hurry up, which defeats the object. Platform signs in this instance are also useless as they are rarely specific enough (we're talking about the terminus here) to give an exact ETD for late trains.

All that said, your idea is a very good one, and if it were taken up for 'normal' operations first it would be easy to extend it to delays as people would have come to expect and understand it. There is definitely an argument for TMs being more proactive in making announcements and encouraging passengers to spread out before departure, and it would certainly be helpful to give some guidance as to how many minutes remain before the train will leave.

 

[jon0844]

I'm thinking of trains that are at their starting station, as against boarding along the way, although given that many trains are scheduled to stop at stations for a few minutes (as against ordinary commuter trains), there's no harm in saying the train will not be leaving for XX minutes. Telling people there's room further up the train is also quite obvious in many cases, but you still need to tell people. People are like sheep too; they board through the same doors that the people in front do. That even happens on Eurostar where there's loads of time and clearly marked carriage numbers AND a person to guide you - and you always see people told to keep walking!

I've been on trains awaiting a platform at the terminus, and people will assume that waiting = delayed. Sometimes, very rarely, a driver will come on and explain that we're waiting for a platform because we're ahead of schedule. It's amazing that people probably know they're early (if they've looked up their train in advance) but always jump to the conclusion that they must be delayed if the train is stopped for more than a few seconds at each station.

People are, mostly, idiots. I can include myself in situations where I'm unfamiliar. I am an expert on my regular route, and others I do fairly frequently, but I'd be just as cautious about things miles away from home - especially if I thought there was a chance I'd miss my train. No wonder people board first, ask questions later.

 

[Greenback]

You're right! On the East Lancs the other week I had a moment of panic at Bury bolton St wondering if the train I wanted for Heywood was at platform 2 or 3! Then I realised that it was most likely the one with the steam engine puffing away at the front, rather than the one that had no obvious means of propulsion! I then felt a strong desire to get on at the nearest door rather than walk down the platofrm and look at the coaches during the 10 mins before departure!

 

[Deerfold]

I'm thinking of trains that are at their starting station, as against boarding along the way, although given that many trains are scheduled to stop at stations for a few minutes (as against ordinary commuter trains), there's no harm in saying the train will not be leaving for XX minutes. Telling people there's room further up the train is also quite obvious in many cases, but you still need to tell people. People are like sheep too; they board through the same doors that the people in front do. That even happens on Eurostar where there's loads of time and clearly marked carriage numbers AND a person to guide you - and you always see people told to keep walking!

I've been on trains awaiting a platform at the terminus, and people will assume that waiting = delayed. Sometimes, very rarely, a driver will come on and explain that we're waiting for a platform because we're ahead of schedule. It's amazing that people probably know they're early (if they've looked up their train in advance) but always jump to the conclusion that they must be delayed if the train is stopped for more than a few seconds at each station.

People are, mostly, idiots. I can include myself in situations where I'm unfamiliar. I am an expert on my regular route, and others I do fairly frequently, but I'd be just as cautious about things miles away from home - especially if I thought there was a chance I'd miss my train. No wonder people board first, ask questions later.

It's useful to know what's happening. My EC train last week was showing on the screens at KX as delayed by 10 minutes but despite it coming in late, we only left a minute late but with no announcements updating the time (we did have the standard one stating only advance tickets with the right time on were valid and off-peak tickets weren't - would have felt very silly if I'd been walking alongside the train.

 

[royaloak]

, rather than the one that had no obvious means of propulsion!

Was it the battery multiple unit though? Had a ride on it when it was restored to service and it is a very strange feeling indeed when it set off with no engine noise what so ever

 

[mickey]

- would have felt very silly if I'd been walking alongside the train.

Do they use whistle-dispatch at King's Cross? At most mainline stations I tend always to walk along the outside of the train but if I hear the first whistle go I hop on at the nearest door and continue walking inside. The platform staff and/or guard have likely seen me too, and know I'm likely to do just that.

 

[Greenback]

Was it the battery multiple unit though? Had a ride on it when it was restored to service and it is a very strange feeling indeed when it set off with no engine noise what so ever

No, it was the dining set which was in the platform being prepared for a later departure! It eventaully left with a Black 5 pulling it!

 

[xtradj]

I see everyones point that if Standard is full, then you should be allowed in First Class

however, you have to realise that the people who paid for first class in the first place will then feel aggrieved that people who paid probably half off what they paid are being allowed to use the same services

so its one of them

 

[ChrisCooper]

It's been pointed out quite a few times though that they arn't getting the same service. They get a bigger seat and that's about it. On Intercity TOCs First Class service usually includes at seat service, complementary refreshments, newspapers etc, maybe even a meal. Upgraded standard passengers are not getting that, they are getting the equivalent to a basic weekend first upgrade, which is usually under £10. Even though they are allowed to travel in first class coaches, the commoners are still kept seperate from the first class passengers so as not to bother them with their noise, smell and unpleasent appearance. Weekends would be one of the few times when first class passengers could really complain as with many TOCs no additional service is provided to first class, so in the event of declassification then they would be paying for a service that they could have got for free.