Why was the Colne - Skipton line removed and why has it never been put back?

[AlastairFraser]

So despite the fact that the buses cost more than the heavily subsidised trains (presumably a Colne - Burnley return is more than the £3.40 rail fare?), the buses are more popular.

Presumably part of this is because the train stations are nowhere near where people live? That seems a bigger problem (than daydreaming about through services to Leeds).

If the train can't attract people from the valley into Burnley (or onto Blackburn etc), when a bus service exists, then it's not going to attract people to far flung destinations like Leeds.



Yes, it'd be much simpler to implement.

But, as ever on here, the mood is "suggest re-opening a line in the first instance, worry about minor practicalities later".

People suggest a Colne - Leeds train because that would justify re-opening a line. People don't suggest something practical/boring … like replacing the service up the Colne branch with an extension of the current (Rochdale) Manchester - Bolton - Blackburn services (i.e. the hourly Blackburn service that doesn't already run through to Clitheroe). No reopenings required (and Manchester is clearly a bigger attraction than Leeds, from that neck of the woods). Why bother with minor improvements that will make a practical difference to people's lives when you can get nostalgic about old lines though, I guess.

I think the point of reopening the small section as two track electrified main line and upgrading to the same standard Colne to Preston and perhaps Burnley to Manchester as an add-on. The main benefits would be chucking all cross-Pennine freight off busier lines between Leeds and Manchester, freeing up capacity on those lines, providing a quicker through service from Leeds/Bradford/Airedale to Preston for further connections on to Scotland/The Lake District/Blackpool,which must be a reasonably sized market. You could extend 2tph from Skipton to Preston, one all stops to Preston and one semi-fast stopping at Colne, Nelson, Burnley Central, Burnley Rose Grove, Accrington, Blackburn and Preston.This might also be a good diversionary route for electrified freight to the WCML from Yorkshire if the ECML is closed for whatever reason. It would only require investment and a extension of 2 trains per hour, saving one much-needed DMU the other side of the Pennines. It has the advantage of some of the line already being electrified,where as the Copy Pit line and Leeds to Manchester via Huddersfield would cost a bomb to electrify as alternatives.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think the point of reopening the small section as two track electrified main line and upgrading to the same standard Colne to Preston and perhaps Burnley to Manchester as an add-on.

Bearing in mind the impasse situation currently existing regarding electrification of the relatively short distance from Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge, via Miles Platting junction, the proposed electrification stated above of far longer line sections from Colne to Preston and Burnley to Manchester go even further back in the realms of railway updates.

 

[Neptune]

I think the point of reopening the small section as two track electrified main line and upgrading to the same standard Colne to Preston and perhaps Burnley to Manchester as an add-on. The main benefits would be chucking all cross-Pennine freight off busier lines between Leeds and Manchester, freeing up capacity on those lines, providing a quicker through service from Leeds/Bradford/Airedale to Preston for further connections on to Scotland/The Lake District/Blackpool,which must be a reasonably sized market. You could extend 2tph from Skipton to Preston, one all stops to Preston and one semi-fast stopping at Colne, Nelson, Burnley Central, Burnley Rose Grove, Accrington, Blackburn and Preston.This might also be a good diversionary route for electrified freight to the WCML from Yorkshire if the ECML is closed for whatever reason. It would only require investment and a extension of 2 trains per hour, saving one much-needed DMU the other side of the Pennines. It has the advantage of some of the line already being electrified,where as the Copy Pit line and Leeds to Manchester via Huddersfield would cost a bomb to electrify as alternatives.

Where would all that spare capacity on the Aire Valley come from though.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the point of reopening the small section as two track electrified main line and upgrading to the same standard Colne to Preston and perhaps Burnley to Manchester as an add-on. The main benefits would be chucking all cross-Pennine freight off busier lines between Leeds and Manchester, freeing up capacity on those lines, providing a quicker through service from Leeds/Bradford/Airedale to Preston for further connections on to Scotland/The Lake District/Blackpool,which must be a reasonably sized market. You could extend 2tph from Skipton to Preston, one all stops to Preston and one semi-fast stopping at Colne, Nelson, Burnley Central, Burnley Rose Grove, Accrington, Blackburn and Preston.This might also be a good diversionary route for electrified freight to the WCML from Yorkshire if the ECML is closed for whatever reason. It would only require investment and a extension of 2 trains per hour, saving one much-needed DMU the other side of the Pennines. It has the advantage of some of the line already being electrified,where as the Copy Pit line and Leeds to Manchester via Huddersfield would cost a bomb to electrify as alternatives.

I've estimated some timings between Rose Grove and Leeds and I believe a semi-fast train would be no quicker via Skipton that via Copy Pit. The existing route has the advantage that the same train can serve Bradford and Leeds whereas via Skipton would require separate trains. If there is the demand for separate trains then via Copy Pit the Leeds one could take the much faster route via Mirfield and Dewsbury.

Where would all that spare capacity on the Aire Valley come from though.

Indeed. Freight using the Colne-Skipton route has to negotiate a busy suburban route and then make a flat crossing of many of the lines in the west throat of Leeds station to get to the Castleford route. Freight via Copy Pit interacts with the Calder Valley service but only for a fairly short distance. It has some conflict with TPE around Mirfield but the TP upgrade or NPR would sort this, after which there is a fairly clear route via Kirkgate.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Bearing in mind the impasse situation currently existing regarding electrification of the relatively short distance from Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge, via Miles Platting junction, the proposed electrification stated above of far longer line sections from Colne to Preston and Burnley to Manchester go even further back in the realms of railway updates.

Fair point, but we could put more resources into electrification.And, by the way, is the problem with the Manchester Picc-Stalybridge electrification to do with the tunnels? In any case, the electrification I'm proposing doesn't involve any tunnels and hopefully the new build parts of the line could be isolated if they had trouble with any part of it.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Where would all that spare capacity on the Aire Valley come from though.

Freight would run at nights and weekends,when there are less services timetabled and therefore more paths available. There would be more passenger paths available on the lines between Leeds and Manchester if some freight paths were removed. The passenger services I propose would be extensions of existing services from Leeds to Skipton, so no new passenger paths taken.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I've estimated some timings between Rose Grove and Leeds and I believe a semi-fast train would be no quicker via Skipton that via Copy Pit. The existing route has the advantage that the same train can serve Bradford and Leeds whereas via Skipton would require separate trains. If there is the demand for separate trains then via Copy Pit the Leeds one could take the much faster route via Mirfield and Dewsbury.


Indeed. Freight using the Colne-Skipton route has to negotiate a busy suburban route and then make a flat crossing of many of the lines in the west throat of Leeds station to get to the Castleford route. Freight via Copy Pit interacts with the Calder Valley service but only for a fairly short distance. It has some conflict with TPE around Mirfield but the TP upgrade or NPR would sort this, after which there is a fairly clear route via Kirkgate.

The point isn't about providing a new service to any of the intermediate stations. That's a bonus. The main benefit is providing a fast, electrified link from West Yorkshire to the WCML and places further afield like Scotland and the Lake District avoiding Manchester, freeing up space Leeds-Manchester and cutting journey times for what must be quite a significant flow.

 

[daodao]

Freight would run at nights and weekends,when there are less services timetabled and therefore more paths available. There would be more passenger paths available on the lines between Leeds and Manchester if some freight paths were removed. The passenger services I propose would be extensions of existing services from Leeds to Skipton, so no new passenger paths taken.

The route from Skipton-Colne is only of use for local traffic, as it would be a roundabout way of getting from Central Lancashire to most of the West Riding. The places served are on either side of a regional boundary so the scope for commuter traffic would be less. Any freight traffic between these 2 areas is better routed via the Copy Pit line and Wakefield Kirkgate.

Comparison against Altnabreac's golden rules of a successful rail reopening elicits the following:

1. Population of 10,000+ NO - the only additional place served would be Earby, population approximately 5,000
2. 60 minutes (75 at a push) journey time of a major employment centre. YES for Leeds, if the electric service was extended from Skiption to Colne (about 60 minutes from Leeds), NO for Manchester (at least 75 minutes to Colne itself, by extant routes)
3. Extant or mainly unobstructed trackbed NO
4. Ability to extend an existing service so more terminal capacity is not required YES
5. Regeneration potential to justify public investment NO - few additional places served (just Earby)
6. Housing growth demand to create both demand and developer contributions. UNLIKELY
7. Any extension / diversion should have the effect of generating more passengers than it loses. Not really applicable

There may be some some scope for commuter traffic, but it would be quicker to drive to Cononley or Silsden & Steeton stations and take a train to Leeds from there, so overall, the benefit of re-opening is low. IMO, the proposal should be shelved for the long-term.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And, by the way, is the problem with the Manchester Picc-Stalybridge electrification to do with the tunnels?

Can someone on this thread with the requisite technical and operational knowledge answer to the "tunnels question" raised above and also similarly answer a similar question on the Manchester Victoria-Stalybridge line.

 

[daodao]

The point isn't about providing a new service to any of the intermediate stations. That's a bonus. The main benefit is providing a fast, electrified link from West Yorkshire to the WCML and places further afield like Scotland and the Lake District avoiding Manchester, freeing up space Leeds-Manchester and cutting journey times for what must be quite a significant flow.

There are already through trains from Leeds to Preston/Lancaster/Carlisle via more direct routes. Skipton-Colne has no value as a strategic long distance route.

 

[tbtc]

I have long thought that Blackburn-Preston could use 3tph.

I'd agree - a "turn up and go" frequency from Blackburn to Preston and WCML connections would be a big practical improvementBlackburn is one of those decent sized places that suffers because it's not on a main line (a Lancashire version of Bradford/ Sunderland) - whilst I'm not suggesting we divert all long distance services via Blackburn (or Bradford/ Sunderland), we can at least provide it with a frequent enough service to the nearest main line "hub" (which Bradford already has, in fairness).

One extra DMU could provide an (additional) hourly service from Preston to Blackburn and back again - all I'm asking for is an extra 150 (or two, if you want to provide a properly competitive frequency!).

That's the kind of practical thing that I'd focus on, before getting the crayons out to worry about Colne - Skipton

as ever on here, the mood is "suggest re-opening a line in the first instance, worry about minor practicalities later".

People suggest a Colne - Leeds train because that would justify re-opening a line. People don't suggest something practical/boring … like replacing the service up the Colne branch with an extension of the current (Rochdale) Manchester - Bolton - Blackburn services (i.e. the hourly Blackburn service that doesn't already run through to Clitheroe). No reopenings required (and Manchester is clearly a bigger attraction than Leeds, from that neck of the woods). Why bother with minor improvements that will make a practical difference to people's lives when you can get nostalgic about old lines though, I guess.

I'd never thought about that actually. Wouldn't that be going the long way round to get to Manchester though?

Yes. Colne -Manchester via Blackburn would take about 90 minutes, a train reversing at Rose Grove about 70. Off peak and peak time limited stop buses also take about 90 minutes. Via Blackburn would have the advantage of not needing any extra paths or units though.

However the Colne branch is a long siding where it takes nearly an hour for a train to go out and back from Rose Grove. So a Manchester-Colne service vie either Blackburn or Todmorden would either replace the existing Preston-Colne service and inconvenience existing passengers, or need a passing loop to increase branch capacity to 2TPH

If you extended the Manchester - Bolton - Blackburn terminator to Colne in the path of the existing Preston - Colne service then I don't think you'd be disadvantaging many existing passengers - the average load east of Burnley is thirtysomething and I'd warrant that a significant number of them are only going as far as Burnley/ Blackburn.

You'd also be improving the service from Accrington to Manchester, which isn't to be sneezed at.

And, as @158756 says, it's about trying to be realistic with units and paths - rather than some all-singing-all-dancing mega-scheme where everything is electrified and re-doubled and re-opened and old trains replaced with money no limit.

Would the timings work? Well, at the moment, the Rochdale - Manchester - Blackburn arrives in Blackburn at xx:08 and departs at xx:17.

Blackburn - Colne is just over forty minutes, so say ninety minutes return... that's not going to be great on the single track branch (given the long wait you'd end up having at Colne, if you pathed this onto the Blackburn terminators).

BUT, even if we assume that the paths from Rochdale/ Manchester to Blackburn are set in stone, there's no reason why we can't tinker beyond Blackburn. If you swap the Clitheroe departures in one direction then that would work perfectly for the Colne branch (i.e. extend the Rochdale - Manchester - Blackburn service to Colne... it has a short dwell at Colne, comes back down the valley towards Blackburn and takes the southbound path of the existing Clitheroe - Blackburn - Manchester - Rochdale service... and the Clitheroe service runs half an hour earlier/later towards Blackburn/ Manchester etc) - Clitheroe retains an hourly service to/from Manchester/ Blackburn - but by switching the Clitheroe departure from xx:25 to xx:55 you can path a Blackburn - Colne - Blackburn service so that it doesn't occupy the single track branch for too long - and dumping the excessive dwell time on the Clitheroe service isn't much of a problem given how little freight there is/ the ability to sit out of the way at Horrocksford Junction.

(plus, by reducing the current Preston - Colne stopper to a Preston - Blackburn stopper, you have scope to retime it and stick in an extra 150 or two to provide a "turn up and go" Preston - Blackburn service, when co-ordinated with the West Yorkshire service - at the moment the two Blackburn departures from Preston are within eleven minutes of each other - i.e. a forty nine minute wait each hour - that's not attractive and leaves Blackburn a badly connected town)

I'm just trying to suggest something without needing huge numbers of additional trains or infrastructure spending - I can't see a passing place on the Colne branch being much of a priority given all of the other pinch points on the network that have higher frequencies running over them.

I think the point of reopening the small section as two track electrified main line and upgrading to the same standard Colne to Preston and perhaps Burnley to Manchester as an add-on. The main benefits would be chucking all cross-Pennine freight off busier lines between Leeds and Manchester, freeing up capacity on those lines, providing a quicker through service from Leeds/Bradford/Airedale to Preston for further connections on to Scotland/The Lake District/Blackpool,which must be a reasonably sized market. You could extend 2tph from Skipton to Preston, one all stops to Preston and one semi-fast stopping at Colne, Nelson, Burnley Central, Burnley Rose Grove, Accrington, Blackburn and Preston.This might also be a good diversionary route for electrified freight to the WCML from Yorkshire if the ECML is closed for whatever reason. It would only require investment and a extension of 2 trains per hour, saving one much-needed DMU the other side of the Pennines. It has the advantage of some of the line already being electrified,where as the Copy Pit line and Leeds to Manchester via Huddersfield would cost a bomb to electrify as alternatives.

So re-opening Colne - Skipton, re-doubling the Colne - Burnley branch, electrifying well over a hundred miles of (single track) line by the time you do the whole triangle from Skipton to Preston and down through Todmorden to Manchester... to save "one much needed DMU"... seems a bit of a sledgehammer/nut situation?

Fair point, but we could put more resources into electrification

We could. And we have a backlog, a long backlog. If we can't wire to Oxford or Bristol or Leicester or Sheffield (or do a proper job of the main trans-pennine line) then I wouldn't get my hopes up about seeing EMUs at Colne any time soon.

 

[edwin_m]

The point isn't about providing a new service to any of the intermediate stations. That's a bonus. The main benefit is providing a fast, electrified link from West Yorkshire to the WCML and places further afield like Scotland and the Lake District avoiding Manchester, freeing up space Leeds-Manchester and cutting journey times for what must be quite a significant flow.

The point of mine that you were responding to is in relation to journey times between Rose Grove and Leeds being similar via Skipton and via Halifax. It follows that journeys from further west would also be similar by either route (and quicker to Leeds if routed via Mirfield). So through journey time doesn't really justify reopening.

 

[Meerkat]

I have a question for locals....
Where do people between Blackburn and Colne want to go/work - I get the impression Preston is an increasingly large and important centre, and Blackburn a decent sized place?
The commute times into Manchester look pretty long, which would mean investment in commuting would benefit better paid folk (and add even more load onto Manchester stations).
Rather than invest to make Manchester the London of the North, with all the attendant ill effects, wouldn’t it be better to invest to get lower paid people around the Preston catchment area?

 

[edwin_m]

I have a question for locals....
Where do people between Blackburn and Colne want to go/work - I get the impression Preston is an increasingly large and important centre, and Blackburn a decent sized place?
The commute times into Manchester look pretty long, which would mean investment in commuting would benefit better paid folk (and add even more load onto Manchester stations).
Rather than invest to make Manchester the London of the North, with all the attendant ill effects, wouldn’t it be better to invest to get lower paid people around the Preston catchment area?

Unfortunately most of the former colliery/mill towns in the Midlands and North and in South Wales have similar problems, with the traditional industry mostly having gone and very little to replace it. The large cities were always more dependent on service industries and have been more successful at retaining and increasing employment.

So in the medium term it's appropriate to provide opportunities for people to commute from surrounding towns. Examples include the Robin Hood Line connecting the former coalfield to Nottingham, the revival of the Cardiff Valleys lines, and in this area the Todmorden Curve service primarily intended to link Burnley to Manchester. I know the first two at least have attracted a lot more passengers, which is a sign of some success although it's not clear how much of a dent they have made in the problems of these areas. I don't know Preston very well but I don't think it's in the same employment league as Manchester, though the council has some innovative ideas about regeneration. Perhaps someone local could comment how many people commute from Colne/Burnley into Preston on the existing services, versus into Manchester on the Curve service?

The other approach to these problems is to try to bring employment back by subsidizing industry to locate where it otherwise wouldn't. In my view this has been less successful, as changes to government policy or funding tend to mean the subsidy doesn't last for ever, and unless the facility has been able to establish a good foothold it is then revealed as non-competitive and vulnerable to closure. There also tend to be bidding battles between different regions of the UK to win industry from the others, and Brexit will pretty much put an end to hopes of attracting multinationals targeting the European market to locate in the UK rather than an EU country. So I think this policy is something of a dead end.

A third approach is to provide good infrastructure to improve the competitive position of the more depressed areas, in particular improving their transport provision. The Ribble Valley already has an uncongested motorway, although of course road traffic going further afield then has to brave the M6 which is a different matter. With suppressed demand and the population density of England it's unlikely we will ever had a congestion-free motorway network however much we build, which brings us to rail investment. This is the rationale behind investing in the rail network for economic prosperity. HS2 linking the main cities is part of it but each city also needs good links to its hinterland, not just for commuting but so businesses that set up in those areas can have easy access to and by clients and suppliers. This is a huge tasks given the state of our network after years of under-investment, and if money is forthcoming it will be necessary to spend it wisely. To my mind an investment into linking Colne by the existing route (such as a passing loop and reversal/split/join facilities at Rose Grove) is likely to be better value than reinstating the link to Skipton, as it would improve access to Manchester and Preston as well as Leeds.

 

[Ken H]

One flow is the Colne area to Airedale hospital. But Transdev run a Burnley -Keighley service that goes round the hospital. Steeton and Silsden is a bit of a walk away. I think Burnley patients go to Blackburn.

 

[158756]

I have a question for locals....
Where do people between Blackburn and Colne want to go/work - I get the impression Preston is an increasingly large and important centre, and Blackburn a decent sized place?
The commute times into Manchester look pretty long, which would mean investment in commuting would benefit better paid folk (and add even more load onto Manchester stations).
Rather than invest to make Manchester the London of the North, with all the attendant ill effects, wouldn’t it be better to invest to get lower paid people around the Preston catchment area?

The vast majority of employment is local, as is the case in most places outside the London catchment. The only really notable employment to travel to Preston for is the university, there isn't much special in Blackburn.

The top ten travel to work destinations for Pendle residents in the 2011 census:

(Pendle 18170)
Burnley 5159
Craven 1713
Blackburn with Darwen 1249
Hyndburn 1226
Ribble Valley 1108 (includes BAE Salmesbury)
Bradford 739 (includes Keighley)
Rossendale 399
Preston 386
Manchester 361
Leeds 208

Note the numbers for Craven might be largely from Barnoldswick and Earby, which were traditionally in Yorkshire.

 

[30907]

The vast majority of employment is local, as is the case in most places outside the London catchment. The only really notable employment to travel to Preston for is the university, there isn't much special in Blackburn.

The top ten travel to work destinations for Pendle residents in the 2011 census:

Confirms my experience from 10 years in Great Harwood, a bit nearer Blackburn. Most of the people I knew worked (or had) in the public sector, in random local locations, or were self-employed/in small businesses ; BAE (Warton as well as Samlesbury) was the only significant large employer, plus their local suppliers.
(Even had we still got our railway, it would have been of little use to most!)

Back to Pendle District and Burnley:
I would say there is a significant amount of (day return, not weekend) student travel to Blackburn as well as Preston.
Burnley MR to Manchester via Tod seems to be doing well (as does the X43 bus).
Craven's main private sector employer would I suspect be the Skipton Building Society, which draws from much wider than Earby/Barnoldswick and certainly the Ribble Valley (A59), and is quite a walk from bus or train.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Confirms my experience from 10 years in Great Harwood, a bit nearer Blackburn. Most of the people I knew worked (or had) in the public sector, in random local locations, or were self-employed/in small businesses ; BAE (Warton as well as Samlesbury) was the only significant large employer, plus their local suppliers.
(Even had we still got our railway, it would have been of little use to most!)

Would there have been many people who once worked at Mullard Simonstone, which is in the area where the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway built their northern loop line that once had three passenger stations at Great Harwood, Simonstone and Padiham upon it?

 

[Ken H]

Confirms my experience from 10 years in Great Harwood, a bit nearer Blackburn. Most of the people I knew worked (or had) in the public sector, in random local locations, or were self-employed/in small businesses ; BAE (Warton as well as Samlesbury) was the only significant large employer, plus their local suppliers.
(Even had we still got our railway, it would have been of little use to most!)

Back to Pendle District and Burnley:
I would say there is a significant amount of (day return, not weekend) student travel to Blackburn as well as Preston.
Burnley MR to Manchester via Tod seems to be doing well (as does the X43 bus).
Craven's main private sector employer would I suspect be the Skipton Building Society, which draws from much wider than Earby/Barnoldswick and certainly the Ribble Valley (A59), and is quite a walk from bus or train.

Most employment in Skipton is in the shops and cafes. And the district council is quite big too. And craven college, but would kids travel from NW Lancs to go to Craven when there is a college in Burnley? But Skipton is a big town so plenty of locals to employ who would not have the commuting expense.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Pleasing to note that there is some very useful information coming out on population and employment / education movement trends within the sub-region.


As opposed to "we MUST rebuild this railway" ............

 

[Ken H]

The vast majority of employment is local, as is the case in most places outside the London catchment. The only really notable employment to travel to Preston for is the university, there isn't much special in Blackburn.

The top ten travel to work destinations for Pendle residents in the 2011 census:

(Pendle 18170)
Burnley 5159
Craven 1713
Blackburn with Darwen 1249
Hyndburn 1226
Ribble Valley 1108 (includes BAE Salmesbury)
Bradford 739 (includes Keighley)
Rossendale 399
Preston 386
Manchester 361
Leeds 208

Note the numbers for Craven might be largely from Barnoldswick and Earby, which were traditionally in Yorkshire.

Bear in mind Craven is a huge area, extending up Wharfedale, Malhamdale and Ribblesdale and across to Ingleton.

Craven also includes Crosshills and Glusburn. There is a direct road from Colne to Crosshills with a frequent bus.

The Long Preston - Nelson A682 road is quite busy so some of the Craven people will be not going anywhere near Skipton.
I go that way when I have business in Pendle.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Bear in mind Craven is a huge area, extending up Wharfedale, Malhamdale and Ribblesdale and across to Ingleton.

Craven also includes Crosshills and Glusburn. There is a direct road from Colne to Crosshills with a frequent bus. The Long Preston - Nelson A682 road is quite busy so some of the Craven people will be not going anywhere near Skipton. I go that way when I have business in Pendle.

Has anyone any views on the service frequency and passenger usage of the Burnley and Pendle Travel service M4 from Burnley bus station to Keighley bus station, via Laneshawbridge and Crosshills?

As a brief aside, Glusburn has quite an interesting history which goes back to well before William the Conqueror's incursion up north.

 

[Ken H]

Has anyone any views on the service frequency and passenger usage of the Burnley and Pendle Travel service M4 from Burnley bus station to Keighley bus station, via Laneshawbridge and Crosshills?

As a brief aside, Glusburn has quite an interesting history which goes back to well before William the Conqueror's incursion up north.

They are half hourly. They are the only regular bus that actually goes into Airedale Hospital- the 66 Keighley-Skipton bus stops on the road. They serve Crosshills/Glusburn/Cowling. And they provide a local service between Steeton, Utley and Keighley.

 

[RichmondCommu]

If there is so much demand for travel between Blackburn / Burnley and Skipton / Leeds perhaps it would have been better if the M55 had been extended.

 

[Ken H]

If there is so much demand for travel between Blackburn / Burnley and Skipton / Leeds perhaps it would have been better if the M55 had been extended.

It should certainly have bypassed Colne. but once you get that far East, the valley becomes a bit narrow and road building difficult. And in Colne, the flow splits - A56 to Skipton and A6068 to Keighley

 

[30907]

Would there have been many people who once worked at Mullard Simonstone?

Undoubtedly, and in other local light industry - but no one big private sector employer.

Most employment in Skipton is in the shops and cafes. And the district council is quite big too. And craven college, but would kids travel from NW Lancs to go to Craven when there is a college in Burnley? But Skipton is a big town so plenty of locals to employ who would not have the commuting expense.

Quite so.

On your comment about the Keighley bus - I imagine Airedale GH is one of the biggest employers in that area.

And about the remoter parts of Craven District - no big employers there I can think of to attract people from Pendle.

 

[Ken H]

Undoubtedly, and in other local light industry - but no one big private sector employer.



Quite so.

On your comment about the Keighley bus - I imagine Airedale GH is one of the biggest employers in that area.

And about the remoter parts of Craven District - no big employers there I can think of to attract people from Pendle.

big Arla creamery in Settle.

Lots of people will commute to Pendle from Hellifield/Settle area I think

 

[xotGD]

Most employment in Skipton is in the shops and cafes. And the district council is quite big too. And craven college, but would kids travel from NW Lancs to go to Craven when there is a college in Burnley? But Skipton is a big town so plenty of locals to employ who would not have the commuting expense.

Plus the Skipton Building Society HQ. They are a supporter of the reinstatement. Presumably they know how many of their staff commute from Colne.

 

[30907]

Plus the Skipton Building Society HQ. They are a supporter of the reinstatement. Presumably they know how many of their staff commute from Colne.

See #77; I can see why they "support" the project - it's the only one that could possibly encourage modal shift to/from their offices in line with (what I presume is) their environmental policy.

 

[Ken H]

See #77; I can see why they "support" the project - it's the only one that could possibly encourage modal shift to/from their offices in line with (what I presume is) their environmental policy.

so why did they move as far from the train and bus station as possible then? Up the bailey with very few buses.