Dumfries to Stranraer rail route return among transport options

[Jorge Da Silva]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-48785193

Reopening a Dumfries to Stranraer railway is one of a string of options still on the table for the future of transport in south west Scotland.

Draft proposals have been published and are now out for consultation.

The report for Transport Scotland has narrowed down dozens of potential options to a total of 23.

They include partial dualling of the A75, new stations in a number of towns and increasing the HGV speed limit on trunk roads to 50mph.

The study looked at the entire Dumfries and Galloway region as well as southern parts of South and East Ayrshire.

Image copyrightLES HULL
Image captionReopening the line across Dumfries and Galloway is one of a string of options being looked at
It has now come up with a long list of projects to be taken forward to a national strategic transport review.

They include:

• better transport integration at main hubs like Dumfries, Lockerbie and Stranraer
• new railway stations at Cumnock, Thornhill, Eastriggs, Dunragit, Pinwherry, Beattock and south of Ayr
• new rail lines between Dumfries and Stranraer and Dumfries and Lockerbie
• an HGV speed limit increase
• "capacity enhancements" like partial dualling of the A75, A77 and the route between Dumfries and the A74(M) motorway plus bypasses on the A76

However, some ideas were not taken forward.

They included full dualling of the A75 and A77 or the creation of a new link road from Dumfries to the motorway which were not recommended to be progressed due to their cost and environmental impact.

Image copyrightDAVID DIXON
Image captionFull dualling of the A75 has been ruled out by the study
Transport Secretary Michael Matheson said a lot of work had been done during the study to "develop a good understanding of the issues and opportunities" for transport in the area.

"The draft report will now be available for eight weeks to allow all those with an interest to provide comments on it," he said.

"Following this, the emerging recommendations will be considered as part of the nationwide strategic transport projects review which will set out future transport infrastructure investment priorities.

"We have already had valuable local input into the study with more than 3,000 people contributing and we will keep them updated as work progresses."

Any thoughts?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Good luck with that one.

Not sure what the market is (or, frankly, ever was)

 

[AndrewE]

Good luck with that one.

Not sure what the market is (or, frankly, ever was)

Troops and other military/security personnel between England and N Ireland.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Good luck with that one.

Not sure what the market is (or, frankly, ever was)

When it was built, presumably connecting the north of England to Ireland, and offering the southern part of England a faster route to the north of Ireland than that via Holyhead. Any intermediate traffic can only have been a bonus, rather than a justification for the line.

Should be noted that their rail options to be taken forward for further consideration are:

• Improved integration of rail, bus and active travel at main transport hubs
• New stations on the G&SW line, including Cumnock, Thornhill, Eastriggs, Pinwherry, Dunragit and 'South of Ayr'.
• Improved services on the G&SW line - better rolling stock, increased frequency, and relocation of Stranraer station to better serve the town.
• New station at Beattock.
• More trains to call at Lockerbie.
• Rail link from Dumfries to Stranraer
• Rail link from Stranraer to Cairnryan
• Increased rail freight capacity through hubs at Girvan and Barrhill

The proposal isn't that these should all be done - just that they aren't so obviously ludicrous that there's no point doing a more detailed assessment of the costs and benefits. Some options are clearly more sensible than others.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

When it was built, presumably connecting the north of England to Ireland, and offering the southern part of England a faster route to the north of Ireland than that via Holyhead. Any intermediate traffic can only have been a bonus, rather than a justification for the line.

Should be noted that their rail options to be taken forward for further consideration are:

• Improved integration of rail, bus and active travel at main transport hubs
• New stations on the G&SW line, including Cumnock, Thornhill, Eastriggs, Pinwherry, Dunragit and 'South of Ayr'.
• Improved services on the G&SW line - better rolling stock, increased frequency, and relocation of Stranraer station to better serve the town.
• New station at Beattock.
• More trains to call at Lockerbie.
• Rail link from Dumfries to Stranraer
• Rail link from Stranraer to Cairnryan
• Increased rail freight capacity through hubs at Girvan and Barrhill

The proposal isn't that these should all be done - just that they aren't so obviously ludicrous that there's no point doing a more detailed assessment of the costs and benefits. Some options are clearly more sensible than others.

Fair points all round , and the reviews are (probably) worthwhile , some cases clearly easier / better and cheaper than others to both review and implement.

Ever so slightly biased when the Welsh authorised a spend of £300,000 on a study of re-opening Aberystwyth to Carmarthen , which rankly was a very good report and worked up in some detail (much discussed here in other threads) , when IMHO , a spend of £300 was probably enough.

The world has clearly moved on , from the brave entrepreneurs of the 19thC , who I think . got their fingers burned on this one. As did many others in other parts of the UK.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Huge waste of cash. Better off offering some sort of Express Bus Transit system to Dumfries; connecting with trains each way.

 

[MarkyT]

Huge waste of cash. Better off offering some sort of Express Bus Transit system to Dumfries; connecting with trains each way.

Agreed, and that could serve Stranraer new interchange and go on to the ferry terminal at times appropriate for sailings.

 

[tbtc]

I'd put "ha ha ha" but that probably wouldn't meet the minimum number of characters required for a post on the Forum!

It'd be a complete non-starter, doesn't serve any large intermediate places (currently without a train service), neither Stranraer or Dumfries are particularly large in their own right (fair enough if the plan was to link a town like Stranraer/ Dumfries to a big city, like the way that the Borders line had the "carrot" of Edinburgh at one end), but neither town is significant enough.

If there were to be any new line built in the area then I'd suggest Dumfries - Lockerbie, a shuttle service to connect to the WCML services (maybe, if you join it to the WCML in the correct direction then you could try to justify it being a diversionary route if the WCML at Ecclefechan was ever to be closed - that's a fairly marginal justification but I know that some people like to claim Diversionary Resilience as a reason to build lines).

The ferry trade was generally replaced by air, the ferries that remain are mainly at places like Cairnryan, so it's hard to make much justification for a line from Dumfries to Stranraer - if the idea is to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on a railway to use it as a blunt instrument to regenerate a deprived town then there are a long list of those that would be much easier/ cheaper to do (Renfrew, Leven etc).

Hopefully it's only made the list as a token suggestion to keep people in a relatively unpopulated corner of the country feeling like they aren't being ignored (before the money is spent on something more sensible).

 

[Indigo Soup]

Ever so slightly biased when the Welsh authorised a spend of £300,000 on a study of re-opening Aberystwyth to Carmarthen , which rankly was a very good report and worked up in some detail (much discussed here in other threads) , when IMHO , a spend of £300 was probably enough.

Aye, you're not wrong - though I don't believe I've seen that particular report, I know the kind of study. The client already knows the answer, but can't convince anyone of it until they've paid a consultant to tell them again.

Hopefully it's only made the list as a token suggestion to keep people in a relatively unpopulated corner of the country feeling like they aren't being ignored (before the money is spent on something more sensible).

The entire report is about transport in Dumfries and Galloway. Now the consultants have got rid of the worst options, another consultant can be paid to look at the surviving ones in detail and recommend putting in bus stops outside railway stations and a few more overtaking lanes on the A75.

 

[johnnychips]

Think @tbtc ‘s ‘ha ha ha’ applies when there are so many other schemes worthy of investment.

 

[Dr_Paul]

One gets the feeling that there are quite a few other cases of rebuilding that would be a lot more feasible and would garner better returns than this massively expensive project. I think that even our old favourite, the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line, would have a better chance of reaching fruition.

 

[snookertam]

Absolutely no chance of Dumfries to Stranraer ever being considered. As mentioned above, it's inclusion in the report is to circumvent any claims of being ignored, although in reality I doubt anyone in the area would be bothered.

There is a proposal included to open a station at Pinwherry on the Ayr to Stranraer line. This combined with a bus to Newton Stewart and Castle Douglas might be a better option for opening up transport links in the area. Also included are proposals for an Ayr South parkway station which could act as a Park & Ride for the A77. There is already an hourly Ayr to Girvan service, every second of these being a two hourly Kilmarnock to Stranraer, which is a pretty decent service for the area.

So generally speaking the priority should be making the most of the existing routes - on Sundays the first train from Dumfries to Glasgow is around 1400, the first southbound to Dumfries from Glasgow departs at 1503, surely having a far better sunday service is far more of a prority than anything - a mid morning Dumfries to Glasgow Central with balancing Glasgow Central to Carlisle morning service surely called for. No wonder the doonhamers tend to feel forgotten about.

 

[47271]

No no no

If anyone on here has an hour or so to spare and wants a laugh then step this way back to the summer of 2016...

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ng-of-dumfries-stranraer-railway-line.133304/

 

[gazthomas]

What a silly idea. Before you know it they'll be suggesting reopening Carmarthen to Aberystwyth.

Ah, someone's already beaten me to it, but rather than delete my post, I will, instead get my coat

 

[HSTEd]

Only way a Dumfries-Stranraer alignment makes any kind of sense is as part of an Irish Sea crossing of some description.

 

[gazthomas]

Only way a Dumfries-Stranraer alignment makes any kind of sense is as part of an Irish Sea crossing of some description.

They'll need to start running ferries from Stranraer again!

 

[HSTEd]

They'll need to start running ferries from Stranraer again!

Honestly I was referring to a combined road-rail bridge.

 

[Clansman]

Ain't gonna happen until HSR reaches Scotland and a tunnel to Northern Ireland is built shortly after. Take away any of these things and it's a complete non-starter for obvious reasons.

 

[gazthomas]

Honestly I was referring to a combined road-rail bridge.

That would be quite something, I guess it would make Unionists very happy

 

[Western Lord]

That would be quite something, I guess it would make Unionists very happy

Not if Scotland was independent by the time it was built!

 

[AndrewE]

Ain't gonna happen until HSR reaches Scotland and a tunnel to Northern Ireland is built shortly after. Take away any of these things and it's a complete non-starter for obvious reasons.

...but din't you see that Boris is proposing (another) bridge!

 

[Clansman]

...but din't you see that Boris is proposing (another) bridge!

What Boris says and what Boris does are two different things unfortunatley!

 

[HSTEd]

A tunnel will never be economically viable, it isn't a drive through crossing which means it won't be able to drive ferries out of the market.

A road-rail bridge is the only even halfway reasonable option.

 

[Dr_Paul]

A tunnel will never be economically viable, it isn't a drive through crossing which means it won't be able to drive ferries out of the market. A road-rail bridge is the only even halfway reasonable option.

The channel between Ireland and Scotland is deep and reaches a depth of 600' in places; it's not like Dover to Calais. A tunnel would have to go a long way down, and bridge supports likewise. I don't think either a bridge or a tunnel is a viable project.

 

[Elwyn]

There are 2 companies operating ferries from Cairnryan to Northern Ireland. P & O and Stena. I think they both have 2 vessels on the route so there are something like 12 or 16 arrivals in every 24 hour period. There are a few foot passengers. There are some coach trips, there are some who don’t like flying and folk travelling for local journeys. But the numbers coming off at each end are in the 30s and 40s. The main business is freight. There are cars too but most folk fly now.

So how many lorries cross each day? I don’t know. Perhaps someone does? But if it’s 30 per ship, then that’s 360 each way, each day. No-one is going to build a 20 mile bridge or tunnel for that volume of business. In my opinion. The ferries will carry on for many years to come, I think.

 

[HSTEd]

The channel between Ireland and Scotland is deep and reaches a depth of 600' in places; it's not like Dover to Calais. A tunnel would have to go a long way down, and bridge supports likewise. I don't think either a bridge or a tunnel is a viable project.

Work in Norway on this has come a long way.
They want to use oil rig technology like Tension Leg Platforms or Gravity Base Structures to build bridge supports in very very deep waters - potentially up to 1400m!

600' is not really very much for a gravity base structure, that can go to nearly a thousand feet tall.

The real question is how long a span a conventional rail bridge can get to. With "proper" rail we have got out to 1100m, and metro systems have got out to about 1400m, the optimisation here is quite extreme though obviously so its probable we could go longer since it avoids 600' tall GBS supports!

So how many lorries cross each day? I don’t know. Perhaps someone does? But if it’s 30 per ship, then that’s 360 each way, each day. No-one is going to build a 20 mile bridge or tunnel for that volume of business. In my opinion. The ferries will carry on for many years to come, I think.

The ONS puts the Cairnryan passenger ferry number at something like 1.8 million per year.
Apparently the Port of Belfast handles 7 million tonnes of domestic RoRo cargo per annum.
Which is going to be something like half a million containers a year.
And a little more into Larne.

You would likely pull some traffic off the ferries further south by virtue of it not being much slower to drive the long way around than drive to Holyhead and slowly cross on the ferry.

 

[oldman]

So how many lorries cross each day?

From the report - 'between the two operators 1.75 million passengers, 413,000 cars, and over 400,000 goods vehicles were moved in 2017....
Averaged across the year, around 1,100 commercial vehicles per day are therefore using the ports at Cairnryan, and in rough terms, on average each ferry sails with around 45 commercial vehicles on board.' About two-thirds via A75, one-third A77.

There is pressure for road improvements - ' The two main ferry operators, P&O and Stena Line, noted that the Loch Ryan crossing route is now beginning to lose market share to the other competing routes serving Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. It was felt by the operators that long average journey times on the A75 and A77 to the ports at Cairnryan (due to road topography, alignment and routeing through small communities) was a factor.'

 

[HSTEd]

A bridge complex would be very expensive but it would be a hundred year project, with returns for a hundred years and would spur economic development in Northern Ireland by coupling it to markets in Scotland and Northern England.

 

[computerSaysNo]

There is pressure for road improvements - ' The two main ferry operators, P&O and Stena Line, noted that the Loch Ryan crossing route is now beginning to lose market share to the other competing routes serving Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. It was felt by the operators that long average journey times on the A75 and A77 to the ports at Cairnryan (due to road topography, alignment and routeing through small communities) was a factor.'

Out of interest, how long does it take for cars or lorries to drive from Dumfries or Carlisle to Stranraer?

 

[oldman]

There is a lot of information in the report (section 3.2.1)