York - Redcar

[bennorthyork]

I'm going to be travelling to and from Redcar 4 days a week for the next 4 weeks. Each day I will want to travel York - Redcar leaving York between 17.00 and 18.00 returning the following day to arrive in York by 08.30.
Please can someone tell me the cheapest way to do it? Is it monthly season?

When I've been before for the day I've bought an off peak day return (not Darlington) for £11 when I've not been travelling early morning so the monthly season seems expensive in comparison.

 

[Bellwater]

Season Tickets are priced at the rate of 5 Anytime Day Returns, so unless you get that amount of use out of it(it's 28 Days unlimited travel between the two points)it's going to be a bit too much.

If you can work around GC's services(which are very cheap from York-Sunderland)that will be the cheapest way.

i can't see a York-Redcar CDR on the site i'm using.

 

[Capybara]

I'm not sure if I can help, but wonder if it's worth investigating a CDR (or whatever it's called these days)-Grand Central combination (the first GCR train arrives in York at 8:20) topped up with local fares on Middlesbrough-Redcar and Redcar-Eaglescliffe. Certainly the last time I travelled from York to Middlesbrough one-way on an evening (albeit five years ago), the CDR was cheaper than the single fare.

On another question, does the 'not Darlington' CDR to Middlesbrough option now allow travel on Great Central? I know this ticket was originally a Transpennine-only ticket but that was when when TPE was the only 'not Darlington' option. In fact, if I recall correctly, the tickets were previously endorsed 'Direct' and not 'not Darlington' (if that makes any sense).

 

[142094]

On another question, does the 'not Darlington' CDR to Middlesbrough option now allow travel on Great Central? I know this ticket was originally a Transpennine-only ticket but that was when when TPE was the only 'not Darlington' option. In fact, if I recall correctly, the tickets were previously endorsed 'Direct' and not 'not Darlington' (if that makes any sense).

Yes they are valid now for a change at Eaglescliffe and all are marked 'Not Darlington'.

 

[Capybara]

Thanks. In a very small way that is actually quite useful to me personally.

 

[John @ home]

I'm going to be travelling to and from Redcar 4 days a week for the next 4 weeks. Each day I will want to travel York - Redcar leaving York between 17.00 and 18.00 returning the following day to arrive in York by 08.30.
Please can someone tell me the cheapest way to do it?

If you must leave York between 1700 and 1800, then Grand Central only returns between York and Eaglescliffe are not suitable, and the cheapest tickets I have been able to find are

Origin : YORK
Destination : REDCAR CENTRAL
Route : 00000 - ANY PERMITTED
Standard Class Return
SVR - OFF-PEAK RETURN TPE
1 Adult @£ 25.90
Restriction : 8A
OUTWARD TRAVEL Valid on any train.
RETURN TRAVEL Valid on any train.
Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate
station or to access station facilities.

This ticket meets your needs, while the Redcar - York SVR does not because that ticket has Restriction 3Y: Mon-Fri All trains are barred which are due to arrive in York before 0930.

For 4 journeys a week for 4 weeks, you would need 15 York - Redcar SVRs at £25.90, plus one Redcar - York SOR at £31.80 to be used for the first day and the last day. The total cost of £420.30 saves you the massive sum of 20p compared with a monthly Redcar - York £420.50 season!

If, however, you are able to travel at the following times daily:

06:37 Redcar Central - Eaglescliffe 06:59 NT
07:28 Eaglescliffe - York 08:17 GC
18:47 York - Eaglescliffe 19:32 GC
19:44 Eaglescliffe - Redcar Central 20:06 NT

there are substantial savings to be made by splitting tickets at Eaglescliffe. You would need Redcar Central - Eaglescliffe tickets (16 Anytime Day Returns @ £4.30 = £68.80, or 4 weekly seasons @ £17.40 = £69.60, or a monthly season at £66.90), together with 20 Anytime Returns Eaglescliffe - York route Grand Central only @ £9.00 = £180.

Minimum total cost = £246.90, saving £173.40.

All this assumes you don't qualify for any national railcard.

 

[Capybara]

Yes they are valid now for a change at Eaglescliffe and all are marked 'Not Darlington'.

Just one further thought. I would be more likely to be wanting to change at Northallerton or Thirsk ie TPE to one of those then pick up GC from there onwards. Not a problem, I assume?

 

[John @ home]

I would be more likely to be wanting to change at Northallerton or Thirsk ie TPE to one of those then pick up GC from there onwards. Not a problem, I assume?

Where would you be coming from? What ticket would use to get to Northallerton or Thirsk?

 

[142094]

So York - Northallerton/Thirsk - Eaglescliffe - Redcar? I can't really see a problem unless someone else knows about restrictions so the only reason I can see you doing this would be for a break of journey, which would be valid with the Off-Peak Return.

As an aside if you were doing the journey all in one day, have you thought about the Tyne and Tees Day Ranger? It is valid to Northallerton with TPE so may bring the cost down a bit.

 

[yorkie]

Just one further thought. I would be more likely to be wanting to change at Northallerton or Thirsk ie TPE to one of those then pick up GC from there onwards. Not a problem, I assume?

Most trains between Redcar and Middlesbrough continue beyond, usually to Darlington, and therefore call at Eaglescliffe. GC call at Eaglescliffe. Northern services do not go via Yarm, and it is more expensive to go via Darlington.

 

[142094]

Note that some services from Middlesbrough - Darlington and vice versa don't stop at any intermediary stations (so not Eaglescliffe), meaning you might be waiting longer than half an hour for a Northern service when you get off a GC one. I can't remember the timings of the GC arrivals at Eaglescliffe but it has happened to me before (but did the opposite of what I was going to do and went to Darlington first rather than Middlesbrough).

 

[Capybara]

I quite regularly do day trips to Middlesbrough from King's Cross. A Saver (as was) is now over a ton so I often save a bit by going GC to York, changing there and getting a 'not Darlington' Day Return to Middlesbrough, completing my journey by TPE. Coming back, the TPE train I use precedes the GC by about ten minutes, so I wondered if it is permissible to leave that at Northallerton or Thirsk and catch the GC there meaning there's no change of platform and I get a better choice of where to sit as there's usually quite a few get on at York. However, it does mean, effectively, a break of journey from a direct train that would have taken me to York anyway. I could, of course, get an earlier train to Eaglescliffe (there is one) but I'm always reluctant to do that given there are no indicator boards there (the last time I looked, anyway) and I would be stranded if the GC train didn't turn up.

Sorry if I have hijacked the thread.

 

[Max]

However, it does mean, effectively, a break of journey from a direct train that would have taken me to York anyway. I could, of course, get an earlier train to Eaglescliffe (there is one) but I'm always reluctant to do that given there are no indicator boards there (the last time I looked, anyway) and I would be stranded if the GC train didn't turn up.

If you are referring to the fact that the ticket was route direct, then it no longer is. It was recently altered to be route 'not Darlington' and so there is no question as to whether this would be allowed. Regarding it's former status as route direct, there has always been a lot of debate as to what this actually means. Most though would say it doesn't refer to direct trains, but the most direct route, mainly because some route direct tickets existed between stations where there were no direct services! That opens a whole other can of worms though - what is defined as direct route? From what I know, this has never been comprehensively defined, and is probably partly the reason why most route direct tickets have now been phased out and replaced with other routes (for example, Hull-York, formerly route direct, now route 'not Doncaster' - this change has, debateably, increased the validity of the ticket by allowing travel via Leeds without any question!).

 

[yorkie]

However, it does mean, effectively, a break of journey from a direct train that would have taken me to York anyway.

No it doesn't.

you will be treated as breaking your journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start
your journey other than:
(i) to join a train at another station, or
(ii) to stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably
complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) to follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Company’s staff

So unless you leave the station you are NOT breaking your journey. And even then you are not breaking your journey if you are getting a train from another station (e.g. Moor St to New St, Hertford East to Hertford North, etc..)

But what does it matter anyway? Break of journey is permitted on ALL walk-on tickets that I am aware of, with the exception of some Off Peak (not Day) outward portions where an unenforceable (IMO) validity code restricts it.

I could, of course, get an earlier train to Eaglescliffe (there is one) but I'm always reluctant to do that given there are no indicator boards there (the last time I looked, anyway) and I would be stranded if the GC train didn't turn up.

I recommend using Live Departure Boards (LDB). If you have a 'phone but no internet access, you could ask a friend to text/call you.

Sorry if I have hijacked the thread.

No, not at all, it's the same flow after all!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you are referring to the fact that the ticket was route direct, then it no longer is. It was recently altered to be route 'not Darlington' and so there is no question as to whether this would be allowed.

There never was a question about whether BOJ was allowed on a "Route Direct" ticket as the conditions clearly state it is permitted.

Regarding it's former status as route direct, there has always been a lot of debate as to what this actually means. Most though would say it doesn't refer to direct trains, but the most direct route, mainly because some route direct tickets existed between stations where there were no direct services! That opens a whole other can of worms though - what is defined as direct route? From what I know, this has never been comprehensively defined, and is probably partly the reason why most route direct tickets have now been phased out and replaced with other routes (for example, Hull-York, formerly route direct, now route 'not Doncaster' - this change has, debateably, increased the validity of the ticket by allowing travel via Leeds without any question!).

The debate centers on whether only direct trains are valid (ludicrous suggestion) or whether it is only the direct route that is valid (plausible) or, the only logical explanation is that the route(s) considered to be among the shortest within 3 miles (as per the RG rule that the shortest route, plus any route no longer than 3 miles further than the shortest route, is valid) plus direct trains. In other words, ignore mapped routes. It would only be invalid to change to GC in the first, ludicrous, interpretation of only allowing direct trains. This interpretation is ludicrous and ridiculous because it would have made many journeys completely impossible on tickets routed Direct. Therefore it can be ruled out as totally implausible.

It has been confirmed that ATOC are slowly removing "Route Direct", presumably they cannot be bothered to define it as direct trains and the shortest route(s) over which scheduled services operate.

The classic one was Carlisle to London "Route Direct", with question marks over whether it would be valid via Birmingham or Northampton, and indeed it could be interpreted to only be valid on the S&C and ECML via Leeds unless you got a direct train. It has now been renamed "Any Permitted" as the former "Any Permitted" has been renamed "Newcastle" as Newcastle is no longer a permitted route. Route Newcastle is valid for avoiding Newcastle as it's more expensive. Simple. Of course, the alternative of leaving the Any Permitted as it was and renaming Route Direct as "Not Newcastle" would have been too complicated for the people at ATOC

 

[142094]

Just to confirm that at Eaglescliffe there are no departure boards (and no staff), but GC have put up a nice A4 piece of paper with a phone number on it so you can check if it is running. However I doubt it that the paper is still there, probably been used to stub out someone's cigarette by now.

Again that brings the eternal question; if you have a GC only ticket and the last train of the day was cancelled, how would you get home? Other threads have similar questions.

 

[yorkie]

Just to confirm that at Eaglescliffe there are no departure boards (and no staff), but GC have put up a nice A4 piece of paper with a phone number on it so you can check if it is running. However I doubt it that the paper is still there, probably been used to stub out someone's cigarette by now.

Again that brings the eternal question; if you have a GC only ticket and the last train of the day was cancelled, how would you get home? Other threads have similar questions.

Another company can help. In this case it would either be double-backing to Thornaby or going to Darlington for an onward train toward York, or changing at Thornaby (or Middlesbrough if time permits) if going to Hartlepool or Sunderland.

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded
If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail
Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your destination and the
Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is unable to get you to that destination
by other means, any Train Company which is in a position to help will, if it reasonably can,
either arrange to get you to that destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

 

[Capybara]

Thanks all, especially Yorkie. I had, of course, forgotten that my potential 'break' of journey is on the return half of the ticket. On the one previous occasion when I was potentially stranded (the GC train was cancelled and I picked it up from the boards at Northallerton and Thirsk) I was intending to purchase a Saver to London from York and use the return halves of the tickets I would then have on my next trip North. In the event, there was an employee from GC at York to 'sort things out'.

I might give the Eaglescliffe option a go some time. It would give me just enough time there for a pint so, next question, is there a decent pub close to the station?

 

[142094]

Another company can help. In this case it would either be double-backing to Thornaby or going to Darlington for an onward train toward York, or changing at Thornaby (or Middlesbrough if time permits) if going to Hartlepool or Sunderland.

Good to know in case it happens. Cheers.

 

[bennorthyork]

Great tips here. Thanks. Been successfully travelling on GC changing at Eaglescliffe for a week now and saved loads of money