EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[EM2]

Dear EU27

It is not you, it is us. We just need some space and time to get our thoughts together, to work out what we really want.

Yours,

UK
(with thanks to @davidallengreen on Twitter)

 

[JamesT]

And I don't think that can ever happen in our adversarial Parliament. We need big, big changes.

One thing I didn't know was the case is that there is clearly a need to allow for a "you have to choose one or actively abstain" system of voting in Parliament for certain cases. It seems they can only vote on ayes and noes, which works for most things where the status quo is an option (e.g. bringing in any given new law), but doesn't work for Brexit where there was and still is a need to choose an option with no status quo option, i.e. May's deal, no deal or remain. We seem to have got to an impasse where no option will gain a majority, and so the existing voting system doesn't handle such cases.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you, but MPs can abstain from votes, they don't go through the lobbies when the vote is called.
Brexit does have a status quo, it's leaving with no deal at 11pm on the 29th of March, as per the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. To do anything else requires a positive action, which is what seems to be severely lacking.

 

[bramling]

Dear EU27

It is not you, it is us. We just need some space and time to get our thoughts together, to work out what we really want.

Yours,

UK
(with thanks to @davidallengreen on Twitter)

Much as I’m no fan of the EU, this current mess is very much Britain’s doing.

 

[Howardh]

Much as I’m no fan of the EU, this current mess is very much Britain’s doing.

We're not much good at anything, really, are we? The mother of all democracies? Mother of all somethings. On the bright side, the Scots ladies did beat Canada at the curling today so it's not all gloom and doom.
I suppose this is what happens when you rush into something without looking first - Mr. Cameron I'm looking at you.

 

[nlogax]

We're not much good at anything, really, are we? The mother of all democracies? Mother of all somethings.

There should be a bi-annual global awards event for national incompetence. Something like the Razzies but for governments. The UK would surely come away win the gong for Lifetime Achievement.

 

[bramling]

We're not much good at anything, really, are we? The mother of all democracies? Mother of all somethings. On the bright side, the Scots ladies did beat Canada at the curling today so it's not all gloom and doom.
I suppose this is what happens when you rush into something without looking first - Mr. Cameron I'm looking at you.

Were it not for the thorny issue of contributions (both the “divorce bill” and potential ongoing payments) I’d say with some certainty the EU would simply say go on the 29th.

It’s not inconceivable that may still happen since someone needs to take the initiative (and that someone doesn’t look like it’s going to be Westminster).

However I think the prospect of a hole in EU finances might influence things.

 

[Ianno87]

"Dear EU,

We have found ourselves unable to govern our country. Please find herewith withdrawal of Article 50 and please accept this as a request for the EU to take over all national Governmental functions in the UK.

Best regards,

Theresa"

One can only hope to put this shambles out of its misery....

 

[greyman42]

We're not much good at anything, really, are we?

If you look beyond Brexit, we are actually doing pretty well.

 

[A Challenge]

Brexit does have a status quo, it's leaving with no deal at 11pm on the 29th of March, as per the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. To do anything else requires a positive action, which is what seems to be severely lacking.

Can Theresa May withdraw article 50 without removal of this clause? I'd have thought not.

 

[Esker-pades]

Can Theresa May withdraw article 50 without removal of this clause? I'd have thought not.

When it ruled that the UK could unilaterally revoke article 50, it also said that this must take place after "a democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements".

Given the ruling by the UK Supreme Court, that would most likely be via an Act of Parliament empowering the PM to do that. However, as our constitution is unwritten, it is theoretically possible for the PM to do it without consultation. But, that is very thin legal theory that may not even be correct.

 

[Groningen]

You know how our PM Mark Rutte thinks about Theresa May. Think of The Black Night by Monty Python where all body parts are knocked off and than calling for a draw.

 

[Howardh]

Can Theresa May withdraw article 50 without removal of this clause? I'd have thought not.

Yes she can. It's the only actual thing we can do that doesn't require the approval of parliament and/or the EU; with the exception of leaving deal-less (which parliament has voted against).

 

[Groningen]

Night = Knight

 

[Giugiaro]

It's not a bad idea, water might be more valuable than oil in the future! Must be pointed out in Scotland's favour is that it's eastern coast is one of Britain's driest parts.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/pub/da.../8110_1km/RainDays02_Average_1981-2010_17.gif shows around the Moray Firth has as many/few (!) days of significant rain as much of eastern England. Which is probable where Grayling would pipe water from.
Of course, the west is a different matter. The midges love the rain, so that's OK then.

Could you send some of that down here? This place is so dry it self-ignites every year in spectacular ways.


Also, I was quite amused with this image:



Did Merkel just learned how to speak Italian!?

 

[Struner]

[...]
Also, I was quite amused with this image:
View attachment 60528
[...]

well, somebody has to do it I suppose

 

[edwin_m]

Can Theresa May withdraw article 50 without removal of this clause? I'd have thought not.

When it ruled that the UK could unilaterally revoke article 50, it also said that this must take place after "a democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements".

Given the ruling by the UK Supreme Court, that would most likely be via an Act of Parliament empowering the PM to do that. However, as our constitution is unwritten, it is theoretically possible for the PM to do it without consultation. But, that is very thin legal theory that may not even be correct.

All the business about having to get Parliament to agree to invoke Article 50, I can't imagine it could be withdrawn without another Act. But if the governments wanted to do it and the only alternative was no deal (if the EU doesn't agree an extension) then it's the only sensible course of action in the short term given the size of the majorities against no deal. There might be a legal challenge because the withdrawal has to be genuine and not a tactical bargaining ploy, but I at this stage we'd have to take out chances in the courts.

We're not much good at anything, really, are we? The mother of all democracies? Mother of all somethings. On the bright side, the Scots ladies did beat Canada at the curling today so it's not all gloom and doom.
I suppose this is what happens when you rush into something without looking first - Mr. Cameron I'm looking at you.

It involves sliding around and skating on thin ice, and the rules are totally incomprehensible to nearly everyone. Good metaphor really.

 

[fowler9]

Were it not for the thorny issue of contributions (both the “divorce bill” and potential ongoing payments) I’d say with some certainty the EU would simply say go on the 29th.

It’s not inconceivable that may still happen since someone needs to take the initiative (and that someone doesn’t look like it’s going to be Westminster).

However I think the prospect of a hole in EU finances might influence things.

I could honestly imagine the EU saying see you later to us a week on Friday. On a global scale £39bn is buttons. We must have cost the EU a fortune in the last three years getting precisely no where. I think it is beyond "Who will blink first" now. The EU clearly don't need us more than we need them.

 

[A Challenge]

To all who have responded to my question, thanks. I think @edwin_m has given the answer to the question I asked, that as parliament passed Article 50, there would need to be a change to that law to change or not have the exit day

 

[radamfi]

If you voted leave, do you care that some people might not be able to get health insurance?

Don't forget, someone here has already had to cancel a holiday as a result of Brexit.

Is that good?

 

[A Challenge]

If you voted leave, do you care that some people might not be able to get health insurance?

Don't forget, someone one here has already had to cancel a holiday as a result of Brexit.

Is that good?

You're implying that Brexit is a direct cause of them not being able to get health insurance. Brexit meaning they want to get health insurance (which unless they only holiday in the EU27 they'd need anyway), which they might then feel they can't afford, maybe, but Brexit stopping them getting health insurance? No.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you, but MPs can abstain from votes, they don't go through the lobbies when the vote is called.
Brexit does have a status quo, it's leaving with no deal at 11pm on the 29th of March, as per the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. To do anything else requires a positive action, which is what seems to be severely lacking.

Which dictionary are you using to define status Quo?

 

[A Challenge]

The status quo is what's happening now:

the existing state of affairs, especially regarding social or political issues.

https://www.google.com/search?clien......0i71j0i131i67j46i67j0i67j0i131.oCaOqeVY7KY

 

[radamfi]

You're implying that Brexit is a direct cause of them not being able to get health insurance. Brexit meaning they want to get health insurance (which unless they only holiday in the EU27 they'd need anyway), which they might then feel they can't afford, maybe, but Brexit stopping them getting health insurance? No.

See this post. The holiday was cancelled because of the possibility that the EHIC card would no longer be valid. The insurers said that insurance isn't possible.

Well I'm in a pickle now thanks to Brexit.
Had a holiday in Spain booked for June, been booked since last year. Been told recently by the doctor I need to see a specialist at cardiology - informed my holiday insurers of that and they say they can't insure me for any mishaps caused by that; ie they can't cover when they don't know the situation, and it won't be resolved before I go as the consultancy is after the holiday. They would still cover me for broken ankles etc (not related).
OK; if I had an issue over there the EHIC would get me immediate assistance for (or for virtually) free.
But we don't know if we will have the EHIC card by then....
Bloody thanks, Brexit. So I have cancelled the holiday and taken a small financial hit (the insurance excess) so that's my little something to look forward to gone.
One good thing is that I'm OK in Gibraltar in that it's been confirmed that I would be treated under their version of the NHS - all I would need is my passport.
**Sighs**

 

[A Challenge]

When did he say Brexit was the reason he couldn't get it, he said it was the reason he wanted to get it, and that he couldn't?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You're implying that Brexit is a direct cause of them not being able to get health insurance. Brexit meaning they want to get health insurance (which unless they only holiday in the EU27 they'd need anyway), which they might then feel they can't afford, maybe, but Brexit stopping them getting health insurance? No.

As things stand they can use EHIC to get basic coverage. Some conditions are basically uninsurable.

 

[Howardh]

See this post. The holiday was cancelled because of the possibility that the EHIC card would no longer be valid. The insurers said that insurance isn't possible.

With it being cardiology I probably wouldn't risk it even if the ehic was deffo available. However if my current investigations were only my prostate, and not cardiology, and the ehic was definitely available then I'd declare it to the insurers and go. I doubt even if it were cancerous anything dramatic would happen suddenly, Id double check with the doc, and go as long as other unrelated stuff was covered. Must admit, this wasn't on the radar two weeks ago and I should be flying off tomorrow.

The problem people waiting for a diagnosis is that the insurers don't know what they are insuring, but if you have something relatively minor but can't get insured for that reason then the ECHC is the goto option.

 

[Howardh]

Adds, hoping to be all clear at some point and drink all the wine in Formentera later this year!!

 

[radamfi]

When did he say Brexit was the reason he couldn't get it, he said it was the reason he wanted to get it, and that he couldn't?

The point is, if it wasn't for Brexit, he would still have cover from the EHIC card and so could still go on holiday.

 

[Howardh]

The point is, if it wasn't for Brexit, he would still have cover from the EHIC card and so could still go on holiday.

....if I were willing to take the risk of repatriation after a stroke. EHIC won't cover that, but if I broke my arm then ECHC would cover me even if I couldn't get insured.

 

[Jonny]

The point is, if it wasn't for Brexit, he would still have cover from the EHIC card and so could still go on holiday.

No different to travelling, or even living, outside of the EU even without Brexit. As I have travelled several times, usually to meet my non-EU-resident sister.