ECML all stop (09/03/19 1430) - passengers egressed from broken down train

[jon0844]

Chaos on the ECML this afternoon after 1T33 (8 car 387) broke down on the up fast through Welwyn Garden City after an ADD activation from Welwyn North and after a long wait, three people decided to release a door and run across the down fast/slow lines to exit.

The train was due to proceed and terminate at Hatfield, but sadly got further delayed due to these idiots. The end result was ALL trains stopped, power off and checks being made to see if they were in fact clear of the lines and not wandering around anywhere else.

Goodness knows how many thousands of people have been affected so far, and will be for the next few hours as things slowly get back to normal.

 

[adamedwards]

This is on top of the earlier train failure near Huntington. I am on the 1451 KX to Cambridge and we have now been stuck at Potters Bar for 45 mins. LNER train also stuck same place.

 

[jon0844]

1T33 now on the move. Not sure if the trains are now at line speed or being cautioned.

An earlier LNER train that 'undertook' 1T33 was already 190 minutes late.. I suspect some more trains will be worse.

1T33 now 104 minutes late. Over half of that down to the door release.

 

[liam456]

Thanks for the information, was trying to get from Finsbury Park to Winchmore Hill, tracking the chaos on Traksy. Decided to get off and take the bus home, thank goodness I was only travelling within London.

ESOT: Turns out I made the wrong call, my train's on the move. Oh well!

 

[Llama]

Speculating here but is it possible the new rules for driver inspection of overheads / pantograph (power must now be switched off first - AC, issue 5, 12.6/12.7) caused the delay after the ADD activation?

 

[ScotGG]

Before labeling them idiots any details of whether it was crush loaded or working toilets or intercom even working?

I remember the same being said about southeastern incidents after 3 hour waits (though no power, snowing, freezing cold and dark on that occassion with intercoms not functioning)

 

[Failed Unit]

Not defending them in anyway, but the fact the train was in the station probably didn’t help. However once they got off i wonder what their plan was. Get on next train from WGC - London? (Yes no-one on here knows).

But if it was they didn’t think it through.

 

[jon0844]

I was there and would say the train was lightly loaded, with nobody standing in the vestibules. Two more people wanted to get down and leave but were advised not to by staff.

They nobody could stop them and staff needed to give them their money back as they weren't going to make it to Twickenham now. I don't think they twigged that the door open facing the down fast was the reason the train want moving now.

They didn't get off that I can see before I bailed to get some food and find another way to Hatfield.

Frankly, calling the other three idiots was me being diplomatic.

 

[jon0844]

Not defending them in anyway, but the fact the train was in the station probably didn’t help. However once they got off i wonder what their plan was. Get on next train from WGC - London? (Yes no-one on here knows).

But if it was they didn’t think it through.

But it was not at a platform! And jumping down onto the fast line isn't very wise either - hence everything coming to a halt.

 

[Failed Unit]

But it was not at a platform! And jumping down onto the fast line isn't very wise either - hence everything coming to a halt.

I understand that, but it was in the station so too tempting for some. If it was a mile away from the station (but still in the urban area) would they have done the same thing? I doubt it.

 

[jon0844]

I understand that, but it was in the station so too tempting for some. If it was a mile away from the station (but still in the urban area) would they have done the same thing? I doubt it.

I wouldn't be so sure. Of course we don't know. Given it wasn't a train stopping anywhere near WGC I wonder what the people getting off thought? They could get another train instead?

 

[Darandio]

Before labeling them idiots any details of whether it was crush loaded or working toilets or intercom even working?

I remember the same being said about southeastern incidents after 3 hour waits (though no power, snowing, freezing cold and dark on that occassion with intercoms not functioning)

They jumped from a train on to a live railway. They are idiots.

 

[Failed Unit]

I wouldn't be so sure. Of course we don't know. Given it wasn't a train stopping anywhere near WGC I wonder what the people getting off thought? They could get another train instead?

I suspect that was their plan. Shame they didn’t think the train they intended to catch could be travelling down the track they are crossing and could hit them.

Although your post states they left on to cross the other fast line. Which is extremely stupid. What is the line speed. 100mph at that point? Although i think a speed limit is in place even at 50mph it will be a bad outcome.

 

[Andyh82]

Chaos on the ECML this afternoon after 1T33 (8 car 387) broke down on the up fast through Welwyn Garden City after an ADD activation from Welwyn North and after a long wait, three people decided to release a door and run across the down fast/slow lines to exit.

The train was due to proceed and terminate at Hatfield, but sadly got further delayed due to these idiots. The end result was ALL trains stopped, power off and checks being made to see if they were in fact clear of the lines and not wandering around anywhere else.

Goodness knows how many thousands of people have been affected so far, and will be for the next few hours as things slowly get back to normal.

Why does possible trespassers on the line mean they have to switch off overhead power?

 

[TheEdge]

Why does possible trespassers on the line mean they have to switch off overhead power?

Because you never know the intention of idiots. Because there may be a faulty or damaged red bond in the area, and those go above and beyond OHL voltage...

 

[Elecman]

Red Bonds when disconnected do not become live at any voltage near 25Kv, but will be at a raised voltage ‘live’ in respect to general Earth potential, hence potentially dangerous.

 

[causton]

Why does possible trespassers on the line mean they have to switch off overhead power?

An ADD activation means there is potentially a problem with the OLE.

Even trained people can come into harm when the OLE is awry.

For example:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-30208324
Virgin Trains driver electric shock: Investigation launched
"A train driver who suffered a severe electric shock when power cables fell onto the tracks was treated by a doctor travelling on the train, accident investigators have said."

 

[GB]

I don't believe OLE is routinely isolated for trespass incidents...only those that are perceived to be in, or likely to be in imminent danger.

 

[driver_m]

It's already been said. The ADD (auto drop device) for the pantograph was activated .That alone is sufficient reason to suspect damage to the OLE especially on a section as notoriously fragile as the ECML.

 

[Intermodal]

I don't believe OLE is routinely isolated for trespass incidents...only those that are perceived to be in, or likely to be in imminent danger.

The rulebook states that if there is an uncontrolled evacuation then you must request an emergency switch off immediately.

 

[jon0844]

Another train near King's Lynn failed earlier this evening and a controlled evacuation had to take place. Don't think anyone attempted to leave that one early, fortunately.

 

[whhistle]

Another question is:

Do passengers have a right to egress from a train when they feel that is a better option?

I can see this very quickly becoming the norm.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another question is:

Do passengers have a right to egress from a train when they feel that is a better option?

I can see this very quickly becoming the norm.

I'm actually slightly surprised it *didn't* happen last night on the WCML - 3 hour delay to the 2325 Euston-Birmingham at Apsley, though that said there are some very deep and steep cuttings around there so it might not have looked viable compared to the average London suburb.

 

[Aictos]

Another question is:

Do passengers have a right to egress from a train when they feel that is a better option?

I can see this very quickly becoming the norm.

Umm no they don't have any right and to be frank is a daft suggestion as it's a very dangerous thing to even consider so no they don't, passengers should only egress from a train when instructed to do so by a authorised person and following their instructions.

Purely because their safety and the safety of everyone else there has to take priority, sadly it probably mean more idiots like these selfish three who btw should be charged the extra delay caused by them because if they didn't act so stupid then maybe the train would have been on the move sooner.

 

[Intermodal]

Do passengers have a right to egress from a train when they feel that is a better option?

They absolutely don't have this right and BTP do attempt to chase down/prosecute people who do this.

 

[cjohnson]

They absolutely don't have this right and BTP do attempt to chase down/prosecute people who do this.

Has there ever been a successful (or even attempted) prosecution for doing so?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Again, not trying to defend anyone or say what happened is acceptable at all, but having been on broken down trains, and trains held for long lengths of time at red lights etc I have noticed that the lack of communication from staff can be frustrating. Even if there isn't any actual information to give, a little reassurance and letting people know that the train will be on the move as soon as possible could be enough to stop these situations I feel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again, not trying to defend anyone or say what happened is acceptable at all, but having been on broken down trains, and trains held for long lengths of time at red lights etc I have noticed that the lack of communication from staff can be frustrating. Even if there isn't any actual information to give, a little reassurance and letting people know that the train will be on the move as soon as possible could be enough to stop these situations I feel.

And also more respect for passengers regarding the conditions on the train, e.g. get door barriers out (where provided) and open doors *before* people start passing out due to heat rather than waiting for things to get really bad.

May not be possible with DOO but on a guarded train it's the guard's job.

 

[GB]

The rulebook states that if there is an uncontrolled evacuation then you must request an emergency switch off immediately.

Does it? Section M under "uncontrolled evacuation" only states to request an isolation "if necessary". In DC land an immediate isolation maybe prudent and logical...perhaps not so under OLE.

I am aware in this incident there were other factors at play such as the ADD, (and I believe it was the ECO that initiated the isolation rather than anyone from signaller/driver's side) but as I said its not standard practice to isolate OLE for trespassers....thats why the OLE wasn't immediately isolated following the trespass incident at Euston throat a couple of days earlier. It was only isolated when he posed a risk of electrocution to himself when he started climbing things... but got zapped before the isolation took effect.

 

[Intermodal]

Does it? Section M under "uncontrolled evacuation" only states to request an isolation "if necessary". In DC land an immediate isolation maybe prudent and logical...perhaps not so under OLE.

I would always request it personally and then nobody can question my decision making on whether it was necessary or not should an incident occur.