ECML all stop (09/03/19 1430) - passengers egressed from broken down train

[bramling]

The latest rule book change is that if a service suffers a ADD failure. Signaler has to be contacted to establish if OLE power has been isolated before leaving the train to inspect. The rule is there for a reason since one of the main reasons for ADD failure is a power line being down. Now excuse my blunt talking here, but it is a very simple procedure for either the driver or the guard to go onto the PA and explain this to the passengers. If then they decide to jump ship, it is on their heads be it.
However, it has not been tested in court, but if the crew fail to warn the passengers that there is a possibility that 25,000 volt steel cable might be whipping around outside, Could this possibly be used in a court against them?
Communication is the key.

As with everything, using the pa doesn’t guarantee that passengers hear the message (not every train carriage is full of people who behave like they’re in a library, and that’s before considering that many people use headphones!), nor does it guarantee that they understand any message.

Announcements may help, but they’re not a panacea.

Staff walking through the train works better, which is of course not always practicable on DOO services - which by no coincidence seem to be where we see most self-egress incidents.

 

[Master29]

Again, not trying to defend anyone or say what happened is acceptable at all, but having been on broken down trains, and trains held for long lengths of time at red lights etc I have noticed that the lack of communication from staff can be frustrating. Even if there isn't any actual information to give, a little reassurance and letting people know that the train will be on the move as soon as possible could be enough to stop these situations I feel.

But this wasn`t the case here as mentioned earlier by a member of this forum who was either on the train in question or in the immediate vicinity. Had it been the situation you describe then yes, at least you could understand passenger frustration if not their actions. These three were idiots simply for the danger in which they placed both themselves and others.

 

[nat67]

Goodness knows how many thousands of people have been affected so far, and will be for the next few hours as things slowly get back to normal.

It certainly F'd up my day as I was trying to get some LNER HST's out of Kings Cross! I was annoyed not just with those ****s that got off the train but also the 3 91's that failed in the morning.

 

[Gems]

As with everything, using the pa doesn’t guarantee that passengers hear the message (not every train carriage is full of people who behave like they’re in a library, and that’s before considering that many people use headphones!), nor does it guarantee that they understand any message.

Announcements may help, but they’re not a panacea.

Staff walking through the train works better, which is of course not always practicable on DOO services - which by no coincidence seem to be where we see most self-egress incidents.

I see your point. But neither is it practical to get into a personal conversation with 400 people. One incident I remember well, in the middle of nowhere when a 'Hydrostatic oil pipe' came loose after hitting sheep. It was dragging on the track. It would be two hours wait for a fitter, or I could get the rope from the tool cupboard and secure it myself. Everyone wanted to know about their connections, everybody's little worries were the only ones that concerned them. I quelled this little rebellion by simply saying. "I can talk to you all day long about the connection you will never make if you want me to talk about it. Or I can get on and get this problem sorted" Most people understood that approach, and that is my point. Communication is the key, and communication comes in many guises.

 

[bramling]

I see your point. But neither is it practical to get into a personal conversation with 400 people. One incident I remember well, in the middle of nowhere when a 'Hydrostatic oil pipe' came loose after hitting sheep. It was dragging on the track. It would be two hours wait for a fitter, or I could get the rope from the tool cupboard and secure it myself. Everyone wanted to know about their connections, everybody's little worries were the only ones that concerned them. I quelled this little rebellion by simply saying. "I can talk to you all day long about the connection you will never make if you want me to talk about it. Or I can get on and get this problem sorted" Most people understood that approach, and that is my point. Communication is the key, and communication comes in many guises.

Good example. Unfortunately it only takes one to be the arse!

 

[trainophile]

1000 from EDB cancelled and all passengers put onto the 1030, which we have been on since 0907 from Dundee. 1st Class is full, no idea what Standard is like.

We were held at Berwick for 100 minutes and told if we did leave the train to stay close by in case we were going to proceed at short notice.

Now at Darlington 111 late - pretty sure delay repay is in the bag! They have made announcements about being sure to keep our tickets.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The latest rule book change is that if a service suffers a ADD failure. Signaler has to be contacted to establish if OLE power has been isolated before leaving the train to inspect. The rule is there for a reason since one of the main reasons for ADD failure is a power line being down. Now excuse my blunt talking here, but it is a very simple procedure for either the driver or the guard to go onto the PA and explain this to the passengers. If then they decide to jump ship, it is on their heads be it.
However, it has not been tested in court, but if the crew fail to warn the passengers that there is a possibility that 25,000 volt steel cable might be whipping around outside, Could this possibly be used in a court against them?
Communication is the key.

Are there not big yellow notices on the outside of all the carriages/locomotives saying something like "CAUTION: HIGH VOLTAGE OVERHEAD LINE"?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are there not big yellow notices on the outside of all the carriages/locomotives saying something like "CAUTION: HIGH VOLTAGE OVERHEAD LINE"?

Yes. But if the wires are down and still live, that cable could be flapping about in the wind anywhere... or might simply be laid on the ground right below the door an errant passenger chooses to egress from. They're also coming from inside the train, so any warnings on the outside are of no help.

 

[Gems]

Are there not big yellow notices on the outside of all the carriages/locomotives saying something like "CAUTION: HIGH VOLTAGE OVERHEAD LINE"?

Have you ever seen a 25,000 volt cable that has come down and still live. Firstly they are known as electric wires. These so called wires are actually hefty pieces of steel that if you took hold of you couldn't bend it. Secondly when one comes down that is still live it has a habit of whipping about and setting fire to everything it comes into contact with that burns. If the electricity doesn't fry you the cable itself could remove your head. There are three things that are the usual cause of ADD failure. Pan going too high is one of them, and that can be as a result of the cables being down.
You ask any trained train crew if they would go walkabouts outside of the train if they were less than sure it was safe. The answer would be 100% no. Yet members of the public or some of them seem oblivious to all they are warned about.

 

[tsr]

Good example. Unfortunately it only takes one to be the arse!

Indeed.

I remember one occasion when I ended up helping out at a station where a fairly brutal fatality had closed four of the platforms with perfect timing at the very height of the evening peak. It was pretty clear - to even someone reasonably diminished of brain power - that something very bad had happened and we were just about managing to run a reduced service through the rest of the station, without exposing anybody to human remains. Most of the ten-deep crowd was either sympathetic or no more than politely exasperated at their lot, and observant of the terrific number of blue lights and hi-vis jackets a couple of lines away, but there's always one soul who thinks they can spend many minutes ranting about the uselessness of the service and how it's never got right and they need to get home to East Plonkerton immediately. Eventually I came very very close to snapping completely, and told him to go and speak to the bloke with the two body bags to tell him how he could do it better...

 

[seve73]

The initial cause for the train stopping was ADD. Once the affected pan was isolated, the door egress was pulled and 3 individuals got out of the train and legged it out of the down platform. This caused all lines to be blocked and emergency switch off. Whilst this was happening BTP police got on board to look for an "offender". The driver then had to make a visual check of OLE's and pan. Once this was all done and the OLE's ok and energised, then the train went to Hatfield to de-train. The driver made a number of PA's to inform passengers what was going on, especially after the egress handle had been pulled to tell passengers to stay in the train.

 

[LAX54]

It was a lot longer than that. But obviously still no excuse.

My mistake, it was a bit longer, first reported 1435 and a REC call at 1458 about a 'uncontrolled evacuation of 1T33'

 

[whhistle]

"I can talk to you all day long about the connection you will never make if you want me to talk about it. Or I can get on and get this problem sorted"

This is it!
Completely!

Most people are selfish and are only concerned with themselves, not the greater good.

To be fair, I bet they don't realise they're being selfish but I've used a fairly abrupt approach in the past only to be told I'm being rude. Sometimes though, people need to be spoken to rudely if they're asking questions that aren't helping the situations. Or even asking questions in such a convoluted way that it makes very little sense. Or even asking 10 different questions knowing that the answers are not being retained.

But then when I've given the correct answer and it's not the one the customer wants to hear, I've been told I'm doing a bad job. I reply and tell them I am doing a very good job as I am giving the correct information. The only reason they think I'm doing a bad job is because the answer given isn't the one they wanted.

 

[gavin]

The Azuma can't arrive quick enough the latest LNER to fail is 1D04 07:33 London Kings Cross to Leeds a few miles north of Ranskill Doncaster Thunderbird is en-route