Nowt trains east Anglia

[delt1c]

Well Nowt east nglia have managed to exceed all expectations this week. Whilst I can appreciate the weather conditions have been bad here , why cant nowt Express keep passengers informed with factual (not fictunal or non existant info). Monday no service due to engineering had to use bus,Tuesday morning got to waltham cross at 06.28 for the 06.32 to liverpool st shown as 2 mins late yet never appeared and 1st train to arrive 06.46 to stratford , although we werent informed that this was a Stratford Service. Wednesday something went wrong train arrived on time. Thursday (today) arrived for 06.32 saw it at Cheshunt (or some service) nothing arrived then several trains passed express and half full but non stop , finally gave up at 09.00 (yes 2.5 hours later) and went by bus) the screens kept displaying trains but they never arrived , yet Stanstead Expressess still went through fast) , is it any wonder that passengers want to see the back of Nowt Express as they seem to have no regard to passengers. Homeward journey not a lot better, hertford east cancelled with no information , decided to take the Cambridge service to chesunt and walk then when arriving at Tottenham hale it was announced that it would make additional stops, not a lot of good for passengers left at Liverpool St. If this is how Nowt express treat passengers then the staff have my full sympathy as they are trying to assist passengers (except the Harry Potter staff at Liverpool St who keep vanashing when problems occur) come back Network South East

 

[Aictos]

With respect to passengers who would usually use Hertford East, there is a alternative to use at Hertford North with a regular 30 minute service in place during the emergency timetable to Stevenage where onward connections can be made and also to London where again onward connections can be made.

In fact the only reason there were cancellations late last night ie after 2300 on the Hertford North route was due to the booked engineering works going ahead and not being cancelled.

And for passengers requiring stations to Broxbourne, there's always the local buses.

 

[delt1c]

With respect to passengers who would usually use Hertford East, there is a alternative to use at Hertford North with a regular 30 minute service in place during the emergency timetable to Stevenage where onward connections can be made and also to London where again onward connections can be made.

In fact the only reason there were cancellations late last night ie after 2300 on the Hertford North route was due to the booked engineering works going ahead and not being cancelled.

And for passengers requiring stations to Broxbourne, there's always the local buses.

I am fully aware of the alternatives , been using the service for nearly 30 years ,the point is the lack of information given by Nowt Express to passengers. As for using the bus , have you tried going Broxborne to London by by Bus? Not the easiest or best way to travel.
Also as you could see the train at the next station would you then leave the statioin and walk to the main road for the bus?

 

[Daniel]

You've got to admit, it's been a bad week - not just because of the snow.

A 315 snapped it's pantograph off and pulled all the wires down at Hackney Downs, and there was a fatality at Harlow Mill.

You also can't deny the company puts upmost priority on the Stansted Express and doesn't really care about our stations, (Waltham Cross, Enfield Lock etc).

But also, as you have mentioned, some staff do their best - such as those at Tottenham Hale, (one of those who is on here), does their best to get additional stops of the Cambridges/Stansted's if the locals have been cancelled or run non-stop.

 

[jopsuk]

Priority on the Stan Ex? They've tried to keep a normal service running on everything on the West Anglia route EXCEPT Stan Ex, which they've halved. That to me looks like an attempt to prioritise the commuter services, no?

OK, so they've failed pretty often (of four days, I've taken the train home from Whittlesford to Cambridge on only two due to refusing to wait for over an hour on a cold platform), but then that's not, as noted, been entirely their fault.

 

[87015]

This afternoon alarm bells were rung in relation to Monday morning on the WA. The Airports are already being advertised as thinned out for Monday I think.

There is lots of engineering work this weekend, so very few trains are out running. This means that lots of units are stabled in sidings, a few locations of which have the OHL isolated.

You'd be a brave man to put money on all those units being ok for service Monday morning after a weekend of pan down and sub-zero temperatures...

 

[delt1c]

Priority on the Stan Ex? They've tried to keep a normal service running on everything on the West Anglia route EXCEPT Stan Ex, which they've halved. That to me looks like an attempt to prioritise the commuter services, no?

OK, so they've failed pretty often (of four days, I've taken the train home from Whittlesford to Cambridge on only two due to refusing to wait for over an hour on a cold platform), but then that's not, as noted, been entirely their fault.

8am on Thursday morning , Waltham cross platform crowded and not a single train that morning, several Stanstead express services go through slowly non stop and they are less than 1/3 full. Later in the day cambridge showing as cancelled hertford east service disapeared of the boards and no one new what was happening to it yet a Stanstead |express shown and being boarded 25mins b efore departure. if you are a regular user to Liverpool st you can see that the stanstead service gets priority. Several times the hertford service has been reduced from 8 cars to 4 to allow the other unit to cover a Stanstead , yet I have not seen a stanstead reduced to 4 cars to allow the other unit to be used for a Hertford service.
I do agree that the staff at Tottenham hale are very helpfull and keep you informed as does Hackney downs but Liverpool st is very hit and miss.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

8am on Thursday morning , Waltham cross platform crowded and not a single train that morning, several Stanstead express services go through slowly non stop and they are less than 1/3 full. Later in the day cambridge showing as cancelled hertford east service disapeared of the boards and no one new what was happening to it yet a Stanstead |express shown and being boarded 25mins b efore departure. if you are a regular user to Liverpool st you can see that the stanstead service gets priority. Several times the hertford service has been reduced from 8 cars to 4 to allow the other unit to cover a Stanstead , yet I have not seen a stanstead reduced to 4 cars to allow the other unit to be used for a Hertford service.
I do agree that the staff at Tottenham hale are very helpfull and keep you informed as does Hackney downs but Liverpool st is very hit and miss.

Stansteds get priority?... you have to be kidding!

Yesterday (Thursday), went for the 15.40. At 15.42, it hadn't arrived in the platform, and no platform showing. 15.43 it arrived at platform 1, still no platform showing. 15.43 announcement saying train at platform 1... stampede! 15.44 departed (without me, because I was too slow to react to the barmy behaviour of NXEC).

Looked at departure board and noticed that 16.10 had already been cancelled.

15.55 (keep up), arrived at 15.58, again on Platform 1. Boarded train. After five minutes, station PA announced that 15.55 was cancelled and the train at Platform 1 would form the 16.25.

16.25 departed on time, but was 15 down by the time it arrived at Harlow.

Now, to be fair, it was obvious the driver was fighting with the train a bit, accelerating slower than normal (presumably the WSP was doing its job, preventing slip but reducing acceleration) and allowing lots of extra distance for braking.

So, 10/10 to the train crew (sorry, I forgot, driver - no guards on StEx any more) but 0/10 to ops control.

 

[mindfeeder]

A 315 snapped it's pantograph off and pulled all the wires down at Hackney Downs,

Bloody hell! How did that happen?!

 

[O L Leigh]

Stansteds get priority?... you have to be kidding!

Yesterday (Thursday), went for the 15.40. At 15.42, it hadn't arrived in the platform, and no platform showing. 15.43 it arrived at platform 1, still no platform showing. 15.43 announcement saying train at platform 1... stampede! 15.44 departed (without me, because I was too slow to react to the barmy behaviour of NXEC).

Looked at departure board and noticed that 16.10 had already been cancelled.

15.55 (keep up), arrived at 15.58, again on Platform 1. Boarded train. After five minutes, station PA announced that 15.55 was cancelled and the train at Platform 1 would form the 16.25.

16.25 departed on time, but was 15 down by the time it arrived at Harlow.

Now, to be fair, it was obvious the driver was fighting with the train a bit, accelerating slower than normal (presumably the WSP was doing its job, preventing slip but reducing acceleration) and allowing lots of extra distance for braking.

So, 10/10 to the train crew (sorry, I forgot, driver - no guards on StEx any more) but 0/10 to ops control.

Clearly you've not been keeping up.

The StanEx service has been thinned out for the past few days. At Liv St this means that the XX10 and XX40 departures have been cancelled with just the XX25 and XX55 departures being run, while departures from the airport have been at XX00 and XX30.

The weather has also introduced a lot of delays with doors being affected by build-ups of snow and ice, a blanket 60mph speed restriction applied to Cl317 units where snow is being disturbed by the passage of trains, the number of units running around on reduced power, infrastructure problems and, to a lesser degree, poor railhead conditions. This has had a consequent knock-on effect on units and drivers with quite a few of each being at the wrong place at the wrong time and some drivers having their breaks affected.

It has been bad of late and the controllers have not always made the best use of the resources available to them, but when things go that far up the wall the screens just can't keep up because the situation changes almost constantly. It's almost better not to attempt to give too much information or to try and promise certain things because you know that there's a pretty good chance that events will overtake you. It's easier to give details at locations like Tottenham Hale because you can wait and see what's leaving Liv St and give at least 10 minutes notice of any service approaching from that direction. At Liv St you can't really make any definate announcement until you know that there is a train and a driver to work it, and often it's only at very short notice just a minute or two before the train leaves the platform.

I wouldn't like to suggest that the situation is ideal or that there couldn't be better communication, but the problems are often times more complex than they seem at first.

O L Leigh

 

[Broken Viking]

Slightly unrelated to the subject of rail cancellations etc, but Delt1c's way of referring to NXEA got my old grey matter going...

Apologies for the thread intrusion, but I just couldn't resist!
And no offence to NXEA of course. I can only speak from experience with the StanEx, but the only severe delay I've ever had on that was due to a fatality...The only negative I have against NXEA are the prices charged on their on-board trolleys! hock:8)

 

[O L Leigh]

The only negative I have against NXEA are the prices charged on their on-board trolleys! hock:8)

And that's down to the catering contractor, not the TOC.

O L Leigh

 

[delt1c]

The controllers could do a lot better, staff in general are doing their best in very difficult conditions and I can accept that this is an exceptional problem,. I apppreciate that units are failing at an alarming rate, with that in mind Nat Ex needs to make better use of available resources and attempt to inform passengers. Some of tje information being given beggars belief., some passengers at Waltham Crosss were told to take the 250 bus to Loughton then use the central line.. WhNat ex have questions to answer, how many units were running with traction motors issolated prior to the snow and just gave up the ghost when things got bad. There is also the alternative service from Cheshunt viaa the Southbury loop but no mention was made to passengers during the disruption as to how this was operating.

Moan over now for the weekend

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Clearly you've not been keeping up....

I wouldn't like to suggest that the situation is ideal or that there couldn't be better communication, but the problems are often times more complex than they seem at first.

O L Leigh

I wouldn't dream of underestimating the complexity involved in keeping the railway working in difficult weather conditions, and thank you for your detailed explanation.

I'm interested in the reference you made to door problems, as I'm involved in new train design. This raises a question, which I should perhaps raise in the rolling stock section (and will do so) regarding whether pocket doors (with fast opening / closing times) or sliding plug doors are more appropriate for commuter trains.

 

[delt1c]

OK ivf you are a designer then give us a reliable , comfotable train which is cool in summer and warm in winter. As for ideas that is what designers are paid for and customers pay through ticketing. I am to understand that you want our ideas for free , whilst you sell the design and recoup the bennifits?

 

[GB]

OK ivf you are a designer then give us a reliable , comfotable train which is cool in summer and warm in winter. As for ideas that is what designers are paid for and customers pay through ticketing. I am to understand that you want our ideas for free , whilst you sell the design and recoup the bennifits?

The best ideas are sometimes from those who use or have used a particular product...in this case those that use trains.

Im not sure what your problem is with exchanging ideas?

 

[djw1981]

Normally designers do focus groups and pay the customers for their opinions But as has been said it's not rocket science what passengers want.

Giving that within the cost / technical specifcation is the trickier bit!

 

[delt1c]

The best ideas are sometimes from those who use or have used a particular product...in this case those that use trains.

Im not sure what your problem is with exchanging ideas?

I dont have a problem, read my post I dont pay twuce for 1 comodity. As has been pointed out , proffesionals have structored plans with financial budgets for public consultations.
Trust that answers the question.
and please dont always asume that others have a problem .

 

[GB]

I dont have a problem, read my post I dont pay twuce for 1 comodity. As has been pointed out , proffesionals have structored plans with financial budgets for public consultations.
Trust that answers the question.
and please dont always asume that others have a problem .

Then why make this comment...

I am to understand that you want our ideas for free , whilst you sell the design and recoup the bennifits?

Just seems you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder...if you dont then apologize, but thats the way it reads to me.

 

[MCR247]

Slightly unrelated to the subject of rail cancellations etc, but Delt1c's way of referring to NXEA got my old grey matter going...

Apologies for the thread intrusion, but I just couldn't resist!
And no offence to NXEA of course. I can only speak from experience with the StanEx, but the only severe delay I've ever had on that was due to a fatality...The only negative I have against NXEA are the prices charged on their on-board trolleys! hock:8)

Did you do that??

 

[Broken Viking]

And that's down to the catering contractor, not the TOC.

Ahh...I'd always been given the impression that buffet prices were set by the TOC, and where a third-party contractor was used (RailGourmet being the one I'm thinking of) they were simply providing food service under contract to the TOC, working with the food range and prices determined by said TOC.

If catering contractors are a law unto themselves in that regard though, it's very interesting that we - As passengers - Have never (To my knowlege) been given any opportunity to have our say in who gets the contract...Not that we seem to get any say in choosing which TOC wins a franchise anyway!

I'm interested in the reference you made to door problems, as I'm involved in new train design. This raises a question, which I should perhaps raise in the rolling stock section regarding whether pocket doors or sliding plug doors are more appropriate for commuter trains.

[I'd originally responded to this here, but I've moved my reply into the Pocket or Plug thread in Traction & Rolling Stock. ]

OK ivf you are a designer then give us a reliable , comfotable train which is cool in summer and warm in winter. As for ideas that is what designers are paid for and customers pay through ticketing. I am to understand that you want our ideas for free , whilst you sell the design and recoup the bennifits?

Shouldn't we be concentrating primarily on building stronger, longer, much more intense and far faster rolling stock before looking at creature comforts? I'll agree that a freezing cold/boiling hot train isn't a pleasant experience...But in my view; I'd sooner spend a bearable ten minutes on a baking hot APT from London to Glasgow, than spend an entire four hours sat on a Pendo...Even if the AC's just about working!

Did you do that??

Aye, I did...Just five minutes in MS Paint with a screen-grab from the NXEA website. My secret to keeping the colours close to the originals (Indeed, exact colours in the image I created last night) is simply remembering to save everything in true colour 24-bit Bitmap formats whilst working on it!

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[Kingfisher200262]

OK ivf you are a designer then give us a reliable , comfotable train which is cool in summer and warm in winter. As for ideas that is what designers are paid for and customers pay through ticketing. I am to understand that you want our ideas for free , whilst you sell the design and recoup the bennifits?

I'm completely flummoxed by this post. So much so, that I've googled the meaning of the word FORUM. The concensus over the many sites that I've checked is this: -

fo·rum (fôr'əm, fōr'-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr'ə, fōr'ə)

• The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
  
• A public meeting place for open discussion.
  
• A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
  
• A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
  
• A court of law; a tribunal.

If I've completely missed the point and the real purpose this particular forum is for people to waffle endlessly, pointlessly and generally bicker over what is or is not an appropriate subject for discussion then I apologise and I'll go elsewhere to share intelligent views and opinions about the improvement of our railway system.

To those that have made a positive contribution to this thread and the other one on the rolling stock forum concerning plug vs pocket doors, many thanks.

 

[317666]

To be quite honest, I think that it should be WAGN, Anglia and GE again - smaller companies can concentrate on their services more. Although this snow is causing more disruption than I had thought!

 

[delt1c]

I'm completely flummoxed by this post. So much so, that I've googled the meaning of the word FORUM. The concensus over the many sites that I've checked is this: -

fo·rum (fôr'əm, fōr'-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr'ə, fōr'ə)

• The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
  
• A public meeting place for open discussion.
  
• A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
  
• A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
  
• A court of law; a tribunal.

If I've completely missed the point and the real purpose this particular forum is for people to waffle endlessly, pointlessly and generally bicker over what is or is not an appropriate subject for discussion then I apologise and I'll go elsewhere to share intelligent views and opinions about the improvement of our railway system.

To those that have made a positive contribution to this thread and the other one on the rolling stock forum concerning plug vs pocket doors, many thanks.

As the thread has been steering in several directions since i started it , the reason for the posting was drawn from the rise in season ticket fares for some comuters in the south east in rekation to the new high speed link from Ashford to london and I was hoping that whilst my post was controversial it would steer that way. This obviously was not picked up on . I accept that this could have been down to my wording as i could have specific in my wording.
To this end I appologise .

 

[Kingfisher200262]

As the thread has been steering in several directions since i started it , the reason for the posting was drawn from the rise in season ticket fares for some comuters in the south east in rekation to the new high speed link from Ashford to london and I was hoping that whilst my post was controversial it would steer that way. This obviously was not picked up on . I accept that this could have been down to my wording as i could have specific in my wording.
To this end I appologise .

Apology accepted and thank you for being so graceful.

It will be interesting to see how the new Class 379s are deployed when the start to arrive. I know the local MP for Saffron Walden is lobbying hard for the stock to be split between StEx and Cambridge - Liverpool Streets.

Of greater concern to me is the new stock project itself. With a new ROSCO (Lloyds TSB) that has never delivered new trains, a TOC (NXEA) that will lose the franchise within months of the units being deployed and a train builder (Bombardier) that has a habit of late delivery on recent projects, the prospects don't look that great!

 

[87015]

It will be interesting to see how the new Class 379s are deployed when the start to arrive. I know the local MP for Saffron Walden is lobbying hard for the stock to be split between StEx and Cambridge - Liverpool Streets.

They are planned to work some Cambridge services, but only short term. When growth of the Airports reaches the point that 12-cars are requried, all 379s will go back onto strengthening these trains.

 

[jon0844]

With such a regular service to Stansted, will they ever need to become 12-car? Even HEX is only 5 or 10 car and they're not usually that crowded (they seem worse because so many people don't use the luggage racks or sit down, they throw their bags by the doors then sit on them or stand next to them).

Now that Ryanair charges for absolutely everything, I've stopped using them at all. It can't be THAT long until people wake up and look at other airlines. I do wonder what Stansted will do - and if they'll ever get any 'bigger' airlines back in.

As fares rise due to increased security, increased cost of fuel and any Government upping taxes to balance its books, I think air travel is going to become something of a luxury in the coming years. Ryanair can only do so much to keep the headline figures down and if the EU ever came down on them for all of the tricks and loopholes they take advantage of, it would get even worse.

Still - keeping on topic of the railway - such a future will certainly boost HS2 and more services running through the tunnel to destinations beyond France and Belgium.

 

[Daniel]

With such a regular service to Stansted, will they ever need to become 12-car? Even HEX is only 5 or 10 car and they're not usually that crowded (they seem worse because so many people don't use the luggage racks or sit down, they throw their bags by the doors then sit on them or stand next to them).

The Stansted Express also acts as as a commuter service, serving Harlow Town (two an hour), Bishops Stortford (the other two an hour), and occasionally Stansted Mountfitchet, and therefore gets very busy during the peaks.

 

[jon0844]

Ah yes, I forgot it's not like a regular express service for the airport only.

 

[A60K]

And the other thing to take into account is the single-track approach to Stansted, meaning 12 car trains are the only way to increase capacity now that there is a 15-minute interval service.

You might just in theory be able to run a 10-minute interval Stansted Express service, but even if possible that would be a huge performance risk and require the removal of the XC and local services from Stansted Airport.

OL Leigh will know more about passenger loadings, but I believe the Stansted Express service has a very heavy passenger load to the airport early morning, a very heavy load late night from the airport, with lighter loads to/from the airport between 8am and 10pm when many of the passengers on the trains will be for Harlow or Stortford as Daniel says.