Fantasy Map of the CrossCountry Network (Post HS2 & EWR)

[Jorge Da Silva]

Planning to make a fantasy map of the CrossCountry Network and need some ideas. This is assuming all phases of NPR, HS2 and EWR are completed what services could be operated after capacity is free.

 

[Kite159]

Brighton

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Brighton

Good Luck with that!

 

[Modron]

Good Luck with that!

You've got very little chance with that one, although I agree it would be nice to see XC serve Brighton - possibly accessed via Kensington Olympia from the north?

I'd personally like to see Blackpool, Norwich, Swindon, Dover, Scarborough, Portsmouth, Swansea and Wrexham/Holyhead served by XC but appreciate that not all of those stations are likely to see such services.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Glasgow/Edinburgh via WCML.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Glasgow/Edinburgh via WCML.

Is there enough capacity post-HS2 for that?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

You've got very little chance with that one, although I agree it would be nice to see XC serve Brighton - possibly accessed via Kensington Olympia from the north?

I'd personally like to see Blackpool, Norwich, Dover, Scarborough, Portsmouth, Swansea and Wrexham/Holyhead served by XC but appreciate that not all of those stations are likely to see such services.

Norwich and Swansea could be possible but Blackpool and Scarborough I cannot see the need to add it in to the network. The others very difficult with capacity.

My suggestions are

• Hull (by diverting Newcastle services post-HS2)
• Liverpool
• Swansea
• Norwich

 

[gordonthemoron]

Inverness-Penzance via WCML but avoiding both Glasgow and Edinburgh

 

[Modron]

Norwich and Swansea could be possible but Blackpool and Scarborough I cannot see the need to add it in to the network. The others very difficult with capacity.

My suggestions are

• Hull (by diverting Newcastle services post-HS2)
• Liverpool
• Swansea
• Norwich

Possibly Blackpool and Scarborough during the summer and then 'as normal' during the winter.

That is based on more people holidaying at home after April 2019 (I won't mention that word in a non-politics thread!)

Never thought of Hull - that is a good shout!

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Possibly Blackpool and Scarborough during the summer and then 'as normal' during the winter.

That is based on more people holidaying at home after April 2019 (I won't mention that word in a non-politics thread!)

Never thought of Hull - that is a good shout!

It is assumed that only one CrossCountry train can fit north of York and I think that would be the Edinburgh Services

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Is there enough capacity post-HS2 for that?

Good point - might have to go over the Waverley

 

[Modron]

Good point - might have to go over the Waverley

Or electrify the Borders line!

 

[swt_passenger]

Planning to make a fantasy map of the CrossCountry Network and need some ideas. This is assuming all phases of NPR, HS2 and EWR are completed what services could be operated after capacity is free.

Won’t you have a whole load of suggestions from all your previous similar threads?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Blackpool, Liverpool, Bolton, LLandudno

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Blackpool, Liverpool, Bolton, LLandudno

Blackpool could be summer only, Liverpool could be hourly to Bristol and possibly hourly to Reading? Bolton and Llandudno probably not

 

[Bevan Price]

My suggestion would involve just a blank piece of paper / computer screen, i.e. abolish XC and spread the services over other TOCs. (e.g. EM to take Birmingham - Leicester & East Anglian services)

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Hull would be plausible via Leeds assuming a long Edinburgh via Doncaster/York.

Swansea is also entirely possible if pathing is appropriate.

Would be nice to see a regular service to Paignton to supplement the ‘stoppers’; even if only two-hourly as extension of the soon-to-be enhanced Exeters.

Not sure about Blackpool or Llandudno but post HS2 I doubt the Euston > Brum > Scotland will exist so perhaps a through service via Brum and Preston from somewhere like Bristol or Southampton can be done.

Liverpool seems the most obvious city missing.

Some services going via Worcester Shrub Hill could prove fruitful.

Portsmouth via Winchester and Fareham? Weymouth? Weston Super Mare (part of the two-hourly Exeter)?

Even one of the two ‘fast’ Reading - Oxford paths currently used for a GWR to Oxford given over to Cross Country (Chiltern MainLine can be used instead) to allow them to operate some form of Reading - Oxford - Bedford - Leicester - Nottingham or up towards Sheffield?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Hull would be plausible via Leeds assuming a long Edinburgh via Doncaster/York.

Swansea is also entirely possible if pathing is appropriate.

Would be nice to see a regular service to Paignton to supplement the ‘stoppers’; even if only two-hourly as extension of the soon-to-be enhanced Exeters.

Not sure about Blackpool or Llandudno but post HS2 I doubt the Euston > Brum > Scotland will exist so perhaps a through service via Brum and Preston from somewhere like Bristol or Southampton can be done.

Liverpool seems the most obvious city missing.

Some services going via Worcester Shrub Hill could prove fruitful.

Portsmouth via Winchester and Fareham? Weymouth? Weston Super Mare (part of the two-hourly Exeter)?

Even one of the two ‘fast’ Reading - Oxford paths currently used for a GWR to Oxford given over to Cross Country (Chiltern MainLine can be used instead) to allow them to operate some form of Reading - Oxford - Bedford - Leicester - Nottingham or up towards Sheffield?

Hull would happen via Doncaster (i.e a diverted Newcastle-Southampton service)

Regular service to Paignton I think should happen

Blackpool maybe as said before

Liverpool definitely needs to be back on XC

Worcester is supplemented by Worcester Parkway

Portsmouth I would like but is there enough paths, Weymouth could be easy just extend the service from Bournemouth

 

[LOL The Irony]

Blackpool could be summer only, Liverpool could be hourly to Bristol and possibly hourly to Reading? Bolton and Llandudno probably not

There use to be a service from Blackpool to Brighton. I think it had about 4tpd in each direction, and they called at Bolton and Piccadilly.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

There use to be a service from Blackpool to Brighton. I think it had about 4tpd in each direction, and they called at Bolton and Piccadilly.

Where did the other 4 go then? Was it Portsmouth? I read that there were 8tpd to Birmingham by Virgin CrossCountry

 

[swt_passenger]

Where did the other 4 go then? Was it Portsmouth? I read that there were 8tpd to Birmingham by Virgin CrossCountry

The “Brighton service” was anything but. In the 2002/3 “Operation Princess” attempted timetable there were quite a number of trains extended to the east through Reading, variously to Portsmouth, Guildford, Gatwick and Brighton, over the course of the whole day, but Brighton only ever maxed out at 4 or 5 trains for that one timetable period. Portsmouth was withdrawn almost immediately in the post “Princess” retrenchment, Gatwick and Brighton were reduced gradually and then eventually withdrawn in 2008 because DfT considered the limited Brighton line capacity was better used for Southern, Thameslink and GWR services.

AFAICT nothing has changed and any new proposals to re-extend XC East of Reading are pretty much a waste of time, even if trotted out here every few months, often by people who think they’re the only person ever to think of it.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

The “Brighton service” was anything but. In the 2002/3 “Operation Princess” attempted timetable there were quite a number of trains extended to the east through Reading, variously to Portsmouth, Guildford, Gatwick and Brighton, over the course of the whole day, but Brighton only ever maxed out at 4 or 5 trains for that one timetable period. Portsmouth was withdrawn almost immediately in the post “Princess” retrenchment, Gatwick and Brighton were reduced gradually and then eventually withdrawn in 2008 because DfT considered the limited Brighton line capacity was better used for Southern, Thameslink and GWR services.

AFAICT nothing has changed and any new proposals to re-extend XC East of Reading are pretty much a waste of time, even if trotted out here every few months, often by people who think they’re the only person ever to think of it.

Thank you for the summary. Extending East of Reading is a stupid suggestion no capacity.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thank you for the summary. Extending East of Reading is a stupid suggestion no capacity.

To be clear I meant East to include both routes, via Wokingham and via Ealing and Kensington, rather than reversing and heading via Basingstoke to the south, but as you point out there’d be no capacity to the east.

Just for completeness there’s currently no spare capacity for additional trains through Basingstoke towards Southampton or Bournemouth, however in the very unlikely event of additional rolling stock being available they could probably extend beyond the latter station.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

To be clear I meant East to include both routes, via Wokingham and via Ealing and Kensington, rather than reversing and heading via Basingstoke to the south, but as you point out there’d be no capacity to the east.

Just for completeness there’s currently no spare capacity for additional trains through Basingstoke towards Southampton or Bournemouth, however in the very unlikely event of additional rolling stock being available they could probably extend beyond the latter station.

Poole or Weymouth maybe?

 

[swt_passenger]

Poole or Weymouth maybe?

Theoretically, but personally I’m not sure there’d be enough demand.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Theoretically, but personally I’m not sure there’d be enough demand.

Surely a couple of trains per day would be enough?

 

[VT 390]

My suggestion would involve just a blank piece of paper / computer screen, i.e. abolish XC and spread the services over other TOCs. (e.g. EM to take Birmingham - Leicester & East Anglian services)

But who would operate the longer journeys such as Newcastle to Reading and Manchester to Bournemouth?

 

[swt_passenger]

Surely a couple of trains per day would be enough?

Yes, could well be done at start and end of service, but bearing in mind if they still used Eastleigh depot overnight as now it would add to ECS miles.

 

[Ianno87]

Gatwick and Brighton were reduced gradually and then eventually withdrawn in 2008 because DfT considered the limited Brighton line capacity was better used for Southern, Thameslink and GWR services.

Not quite. The initial post-Princess recovery was quite severe on Brighton to the point of being near-useless, but did have a few extra services reinstated in about 2005ish before the total withdrawal in Dec 2008.

You've got very little chance with that one, although I agree it would be nice to see XC serve Brighton - possibly accessed via Kensington Olympia from the north?

I'd personally like to see Blackpool, Norwich, Swindon, Dover, Scarborough, Portsmouth, Swansea and Wrexham/Holyhead served by XC but appreciate that not all of those stations are likely to see such services.

Glasgow/Edinburgh via WCML.

Norwich and Swansea could be possible but Blackpool and Scarborough I cannot see the need to add it in to the network. The others very difficult with capacity.

My suggestions are

• Hull (by diverting Newcastle services post-HS2)
• Liverpool
• Swansea
• Norwich

Blackpool, Liverpool, Bolton, LLandudno

The problem with these XC threads is they just decending into lists of places that once had one or two long distance through through trains a day to somewhere far-flung, so therefore must have them again every hour, apparently.

Suggestions need to come with an evidenced justifucation of why that is a good use of capacity and resources (at the inevitable expense of something else) that is not already fulfilled by existing connectional opportunities.

 

[Bevan Price]

My suggestion would involve just a blank piece of paper / computer screen, i.e. abolish XC and spread the services over other TOCs. (e.g. EM to take Birmingham - Leicester & East Anglian services)

But who would operate the longer journeys such as Newcastle to Reading and Manchester to Bournemouth?

Possibly split them between East Midland, GWR, London Northwestern and/or "LNER" - with the aim of eventually reducing the number of TOCs.