EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Groningen]

There are some Brexiteers who find a No Deal not a problem. In the Netherlands there is fear that 2700 kinds of medicine can not be delivered in case of a No Deal. Of which 50 are life threatening. They will not say which medicine otherwise we would buy up the complete stock.

 

[WelshBluebird]

And of course was it really for the “Brexiteers” to have an implementation plan?.

Err yes actually. It was.

I seem to remember a certain speech by Cameron. All together now, “out of the single market...”!

And I seem to remember multiple prominent Brexiteers (including those who are currently saying "no deal or else" and "anything less than no deal isn't Brexit") saying that leaving the EU didn't necessarily need to mean leaving the single market, or the customs union, etc etc.

 

[thenorthern]

Not a Labour fan/supporter, but why the heck did Labour/Momentum pick Jeremy Corbyn as their main man if they knew he was a life-long Europhobe?

Surely, if they seek to be the most progressive party in the HoC, they should have gone with a more modern/progressive candidate?

Many reasons, as others have said when Corbyn was first elected in 2015 Brexit wasn't happening and was seen as unlikely.

You have to remember as well Corbyn favours a lot of re-nationalisation of industries such as Water, Electricity, Railways, Gas, Royal Mail and others which is popular not just with Labour voters but also a lot of Conservative voters. What he failed to mention was EU free market rules prevent a large scale re-nationalisation.

Jeremy Corbyn also says what people want to hear in other areas such as opposing what he sees as "illegal wars" such as the one in Iraq and promising to abolish Tuition fees both of which ironically happened under Labour.

 

[HH]

It’s not jingoism; look up what that actually means sometime.

Tch. I know what jingoism means and, if you accentuate the word foreign by using it twice, then I think you qualify.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm pretty sure one member was chosen (indirectly) by the UK electorate. The rest are, of course, chosen by other electorates to represent other countries.

The vast majority of UK MPs aren't elected by people in my home nation (Wales): they're chosen by a "foreign electorate" . To play reducto ad absurdum, all but one MPs are elected by a foreign electorate, i.e. not my constituency. They're still needed for fair representation.

As you say, reductio ad absurdium.

 

[AlterEgo]

Tch. I know what jingoism means and, if you accentuate the word foreign by using it twice, then I think you qualify.

I voted remain. A lot of my family are Irish Republicans. I can assure you that I am about as far from a British nationalist as you can get.

Do feel free to actually take up the point I made instead of dismissing it, though. Your instant dismissal of the point is completely illustrative of the blunt smugness of the remain side. No wonder we lost.

 

[Groningen]

For Ireland it is a shame its location. Did Ireland join the EU before the UK or v.v.. I heard on the radio that between Ireland and UK there are 1 million trucks crossings. Not sure only to and from Dublin or with all the other ports of Ireland. For Ireland an open border is more important than a No Deal.

 

[EM2]

Did Ireland join the EU before the UK or v.v..

They joined at the same time.

 

[AlterEgo]

For Ireland it is a shame its location. Did Ireland join the EU before the UK or v.v.. I heard on the radio that between Ireland and UK there are 1 million trucks crossings. Not sure only to and from Dublin or with all the other ports of Ireland. For Ireland an open border is more important than a No Deal.

The vast majority of trucks entering the UK from the Republic aren’t going via a port...

 

[fowler9]

Personally I have no problem with what Tusk said. He was spot on. He wasn't talking about everyone who voted leave. He was talking about a certain group of politicians who encouraged the electorate to vote leave without any idea how it would work, no plan at all. Many of the same politicians took no part at all in the pathetic preparation for leaving other than to gob off about what they didn't like.

Tusk was straight talking compared to our politicians which made a refreshing change.

 

[Basher]

So it's OK for elected MPs to select a Prime Minister, but not for those Prime Ministers to elect a Council President? That's logical

In America the people elect the President of the United States as well as the Senators and Congressmen. That appears to me to be a very good democratic system.

 

[EM2]

In America the people elect the President of the United States as well as the Senators and Congressmen. That appears to me to be a very good democratic system.

But they don't.
https://www.clearias.com/election-process-of-us-president/

The US President and Vice President are not elected directly by the people. Instead, they are chosen by “electors” through a process called the “Electoral College”.

The election process of US President can be consolidated into five steps – Step 1: Primaries and Caucuses, Step 2: National Conventions, Step 3: Election Campaigning, Step 4: General Election, and Step 5: Electoral College.

 

[Cowley]

Personally I have no problem with what Tusk said. He was spot on. He wasn't talking about everyone who voted leave. He was talking about a certain group of politicians who encouraged the electorate to vote leave without any idea how it would work, no plan at all. Many of the same politicians took no part at all in the pathetic preparation for leaving other than to gob off about what they didn't like.

Tusk was straight talking compared to our politicians which made a refreshing change.

+1
Those that he aimed it at do indeed have a lot to answer for.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Project fear becomes project reality - and it's even in the Express!

Daily Express 7 March 2017:
'Any part of Project Fear still standing?' Vodafone DISMISSES hike in roaming charges

Daily Express 6 February 2019:
No-deal Brexit to see phone bills SOAR if mobiles used in EU - MPs fail to protect Britons

Well, those chickens are really coming home to roost now.....

 

[Puffing Devil]

Personally I have no problem with what Tusk said. He was spot on. He wasn't talking about everyone who voted leave. He was talking about a certain group of politicians who encouraged the electorate to vote leave without any idea how it would work, no plan at all. Many of the same politicians took no part at all in the pathetic preparation for leaving other than to gob off about what they didn't like.

Tusk was straight talking compared to our politicians which made a refreshing change.

+1
Those that he aimed it at do indeed have a lot to answer for.

Agree with all of this. At the time project fear mongers stated the folly of locking us into a time-locked negotiation with no plan and no way out. Who could have possibly seen this, or all the other clusterfecks, coming?

 

[Senex]

But they don't.
https://www.clearias.com/election-process-of-us-president/

And if they did, then it wouldn’t be Trump sitting in the White House — Clinton had a clear majority of the popular vote.

 

[Senex]

+1
Those that he aimed it at do indeed have a lot to answer for.

+ another one too. May said in Brussels that Tusk’s words “caused widespread dismay In the United Kingdom”. Maybe in her Brexiteer circles they did, but amongst many others such direct speaking has been warmly welcomed.

 

[nidave]

About a third of the electorate bothers to vote.

That is irrelevant if people choose not to vote then that's their problem - the point is we have the ability to vote for our MEP

 

[AlterEgo]

That is irrelevant if people choose not to vote then that's their problem - the point is we have the ability to vote for our MEP

Voter turnout for European elections is very relevant. It’s among the lowest in the EU and significantly below our own Westminster elections. I’ve never ever had a discussion with anyone about EU politics before Brexit. Nobody knew how the place worked. (I’m sure all the smarties on this thread will claim it was a popular subject, but I bet if you search this area of the forum pre-referendum there would be only a few threads discussing EU politics!)

 

[SHD]

The outrage of certain Brexiteers about Donald Tusk’s colorful statement is a gourmet’s delight. Perhaps it will allow them to understand the reaction of many people in Europe to a particular species of British politicians, at the forefront of which a voraciferous man who describes political opponents in the European Parliament as having “the charisma of a damp rag and the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk” before accusing them of nefarious intentions, specifically of being “the quiet assassin of European democracy”.

 

[HH]

I voted remain. A lot of my family are Irish Republicans. I can assure you that I am about as far from a British nationalist as you can get.

Do feel free to actually take up the point I made instead of dismissing it, though. Your instant dismissal of the point is completely illustrative of the blunt smugness of the remain side. No wonder we lost.

Please feel free to make your point clear.

 

[HH]

Voter turnout for European elections is very relevant. It’s among the lowest in the EU and significantly below our own Westminster elections. I’ve never ever had a discussion with anyone about EU politics before Brexit. Nobody knew how the place worked. (I’m sure all the smarties on this thread will claim it was a popular subject, but I bet if you search this area of the forum pre-referendum there would be only a few threads discussing EU politics!)

I wouldn't claim it was a popular subject or that many people understood it. Indeed this thread makes clear that they don't. However, they will have picked up on the fact that MEPs aren't actually that important, which probably explains the low turnout.

 

[Groningen]

Next weekend all the goods from the UK to and from Asia must have departed the ports otherwise the goods will arrive on March 30, 2019 or later in case of a No Deal

 

[SteveP29]

And there are positives.

I note you singularly fail to mention any in your long post

Withholding food supplies would be political disaster for the EU

Nobody will withhold food supplies, THAT is scaremongering.
Other countries, EU included, will be quite happy to sell us food, as long as we pay the associated tariffs until such a time that we've negotiated trade deals that negate them

 

[AlterEgo]

Please feel free to make your point clear.

The point is simply that the vast majority of the EU decision making body is foreign. It’s comprised of people from foreign countries, elected very often by people we have little in common with. Why should people feel it is in any way representative? What argument have we to claim it is any sort of proper democracy? The majority of people in this country don’t identify as European.

Remain should stop talking about MEPs and the representation of ordinary British people in Europe. It’s simply not something people see happen. I cannot recall watching any British MEP other than Farage talk in the chamber. I don’t know who all the people are who make decisions.

The EU is a good idea on paper. The idea of it being a peace project is laughable to the extreme.

 

[SHD]

Other countries, EU included, will be quite happy to sell us food, as long as we pay the associated tariffs until such a time that we've negotiated trade deals that negate them

Inbound tariffs on food would be set by the UK, not the EU, and would be paid to HMG, not to exporting countries

The UK has repeatedly said that there would be no tariffs on food imports. Considering WTO rules ("most favoured nation"), this could represent a problem for EU exporting countries... and a wrecking disaster for British farmers.

 

[Groningen]

@AlterEgo: if trucks from the UK to Ireland do not use ports; how do they then enter Ireland?

 

[SHD]

@AlterEgo: if trucks from the UK to Ireland do not use ports; how do they then enter Ireland?

He is probably going to tell you that road traffic between Northern Ireland and the ROI is significantly higher than sea traffic between Britain and the ROI...

 

[Howardh]

@AlterEgo: if trucks from the UK to Ireland do not use ports; how do they then enter Ireland?

Stuff manufactured in Northern Ireland, that's part of the UK, taken intto the Republic goes nowhere near a port! Suggests that would mainly be agri-foods.

 

[furnessvale]

Next weekend all the goods from the UK to and from Asia must have departed the ports otherwise the goods will arrive on March 30, 2019 or later in case of a No Deal

How does Brexit affect that, other than the possibility of an increase in traffic to offset less imports from the EU?