EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Modron]

I've noticed that another Article (24) has been spoken about recently, in relation to a No Deal Brexit.

Messrs. Farage and Rees-Mogg seem to be quite keen on it, but would it really solve anything?

 

[LAX54]

So Tusk has shown his true colours. Un-elected, over paid, spits his dummy out because he is now on his back foot and is not going to get his way.
Junker still not put right the low tax situation HE give the big international companies when he was in charge at Luxembourg. Another one who is Un-elected and tells us what we can have.
EU accounts NEVER been signed off as correct. Why do we want to be part of these toss pots?

He, well 'they' keep telling the UK, what we are going to lose, and how much more it's going to cost us, but seemingly ignoring the fact that it will also hurt the other EU members if it ends with no deal, and no doubt more than it will, or would hurt the UK. Holland is already worried over fruit and veg, saying they stand to lose millions in Euros each year if there is no deal. Italy concerned about the sale of wine to the UK dropping as we go elsewhere if needed. Mr Tusk seems to give the other EU states the impression all is rosey on their side of the Channel !

 

[Senex]

Why are all the Brexiteers in the Tory party and elsewhere getting so upset about Donald Tusk's comment when these same people seem to expect to be able to slag off the EU to their hearts' content and spread as many lies as they feel inclined? One rule for jingoistic Tory Brexiteers (+ Nigel Farage) and another for everyone else? There's the English sense of entitlement again!

 

[Strat-tastic]

A special place in Hell? Who made him God?

 

[bramling]

Why are all the Brexiteers in the Tory party and elsewhere getting so upset about Donald Tusk's comment when these same people seem to expect to be able to slag off the EU to their hearts' content and spread as many lies as they feel inclined? One rule for jingoistic Tory Brexiteers (+ Nigel Farage) and another for everyone else? There's the English sense of entitlement again!

I don’t think the “Brexiteers” give a toss about Tusk. It’s what they probably expect from him.

However I suspect a great many people watching yesterday’s evening news will have been appalled at the arrogance exhibited by this creepy unelected individual, and might well find his tone rather sinister and unsavoury. Perhaps many might think something along the lines of “you know what, these Brexiteers have a point”.

 

[AM9]

Why are all the Brexiteers in the Tory party and elsewhere getting so upset about Donald Tusk's comment when these same people seem to expect to be able to slag off the EU to their hearts' content and spread as many lies as they feel inclined? One rule for jingoistic Tory Brexiteers (+ Nigel Farage) and another for everyone else? There's the English sense of entitlement again!

Many of the leading leavers seem to have quite thin skins. Even JR-M can appear a little twitchy at times when he isn't driving the dialogue.

 

[dosxuk]

However I suspect a great many people watching yesterday’s evening news will have been appalled at the arrogance exhibited by this creepy unelected individual, and might well find his tone rather sinister and unsavoury. Perhaps many might think something along the lines of “you know what, these Brexiteers have a point”.

Only those who don't listen to what he said.

Do you think he's wrong when he says it's foolish to promote an idea with no idea on how to actually implement that idea?

It seems like a good example of the straight taking, no nonsense, saying-what-everyone's-thinking politics that many (brexiteers in particular) have been calling for.

And again, he was elected in to his position. I know that's an inconvenient fact, but it's still true.

 

[SHD]

Some of the reactions to Tusk’s comments are really entertaining to read. A Polish man, speaking in English (not his mother tongue, mind you), uses an idiomatic expression precisely fit to the message he meant to convey (however you feel about this message) and native English speakers, instead of appreciating Tusk’s effort, complain that he is smug and arrogant.

 

[AlterEgo]

Oh, and who by any chance composes the EU Council? Isn't it by the leaders and ministers of each EU state?

I wonder who chose THEM to be in the Council...

Foreign electorates in foreign countries.

 

[bramling]

Only those who don't listen to what he said.

Do you think he's wrong when he says it's foolish to promote an idea with no idea on how to actually implement that idea?

It seems like a good example of the straight taking, no nonsense, saying-what-everyone's-thinking politics that many (brexiteers in particular) have been calling for.

And again, he was elected in to his position. I know that's an inconvenient fact, but it's still true.

Please tell how British people may de-elect him?

To me it’s a strange choice of words, delivered in a manner which comes across as something between threatening and sinister.

But, as I say, what “Brexiteers” think is effectively irrelevant. However I bet the general reaction in the average living room yesterday was less than positive.

And of course was it really for the “Brexiteers” to have an implementation plan? Remind us who called that referendum again...

And in all honesty if Tusk’s comments were merely intended to be a light-hearted expression of exasperation at the complexity of Brexit, to me this indicates one of the many follies of the EU.

 

[Groningen]

There is a problem with the backstop inside the Conservatives and who can fix the problem? The EU of course!

 

[VauxhallandI]

Please tell how British people may de-elect him?

To me it’s a strange choice of words, delivered in a manner which comes across as something between threatening and sinister.

But, as I say, what “Brexiteers” think is effectively irrelevant. However I bet the general reaction in the average living room yesterday was less than positive.

And of course was it really for the “Brexiteers” to have an implementation plan? Remind us who called that referendum again...

And in all honesty if Tusk’s comments were merely intended to be a light-hearted expression of exasperation at the complexity of Brexit, to me this indicates one of the many follies of the EU.

The fact that you can say with a straight face that it wasn't down to you to take responsibility for what you voted for and what it may have left the whole population with makes it impossible for me to take anything you say or your pals seriously.

 

[Mag_seven]

Why are all the Brexiteers in the Tory party and elsewhere getting so upset about Donald Tusk's comment when these same people seem to expect to be able to slag off the EU to their hearts' content and spread as many lies as they feel inclined? One rule for jingoistic Tory Brexiteers (+ Nigel Farage) and another for everyone else? There's the English sense of entitlement again!

Couldn't agree more - look at the clips of Nigel Farage abusing EU officials on YouTube for example. If you can't take it, don't give it!

 

[HH]

Foreign electorates in foreign countries.

And there we have it. What really drives Brexit - 'good', old-fashioned jingoism.

 

[bramling]

And there we have it. What really drives Brexit - 'good', old-fashioned jingoism.

Funny though, isn’t it, that we have one particular well-known pro-EU British politician who uses exactly this “good old-fashioned jingoism” as justification for her own political dream?...

 

[Bletchleyite]

He, well 'they' keep telling the UK, what we are going to lose, and how much more it's going to cost us, but seemingly ignoring the fact that it will also hurt the other EU members if it ends with no deal, and no doubt more than it will, or would hurt the UK. Holland is already worried over fruit and veg, saying they stand to lose millions in Euros each year if there is no deal. Italy concerned about the sale of wine to the UK dropping as we go elsewhere if needed. Mr Tusk seems to give the other EU states the impression all is rosey on their side of the Channel !

With the economies of several EU countries heading towards a recession, I think while the EU can do without us (our money) it certainly fears having to cut things if it loses out on that, and on (Germany and Poland particularly) having to cough up more to keep other countries afloat. This does rather threaten the EU as a whole.

 

[bramling]

The fact that you can say with a straight face that it wasn't down to you to take responsibility for what you voted for and what it may have left the whole population with makes it impossible for me to take anything you say or your pals seriously.

Why on earth wouldn’t it be a reasonable expectation for a prime minister and government who called a referendum and pledged to implement whatever result was chosen to have an implementation plan?

A lot of the difficulty is that Cameron completely banked 100% of his stake on one outcome.

 

[bramling]

With the economies of several EU countries heading towards a recession, I think while the EU can do without us (our money) it certainly fears having to cut things if it loses out on that, and on (Germany and Poland particularly) having to cough up more to keep other countries afloat. This does rather threaten the EU as a whole.

The question is whether the EU ultimately choose ideology over practicality. One could argue they already have form for that that for example by implementing the single currency.

 

[nidave]

MPs of the party, but they were elected by us the people

Who votes for The UK MEP?

 

[nidave]

I don’t think the “Brexiteers” give a toss about Tusk. It’s what they probably expect from him.

However I suspect a great many people watching yesterday’s evening news will have been appalled at the arrogance exhibited by this creepy unelected individual, and might well find his tone rather sinister and unsavoury. Perhaps many might think something along the lines of “you know what, these Brexiteers have a point”.

So it's OK to call people like Tusk nazis and call the eu eussr is it. Your very easily offended. The term snowflake springs to mind.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Why are all the Brexiteers in the Tory party and elsewhere getting so upset about Donald Tusk's comment when these same people seem to expect to be able to slag off the EU to their hearts' content and spread as many lies as they feel inclined? One rule for jingoistic Tory Brexiteers (+ Nigel Farage) and another for everyone else? There's the English sense of entitlement again!

You seem to be endorsing all the more why the UK shouldn't be part of the EU.

 

[AlterEgo]

And there we have it. What really drives Brexit - 'good', old-fashioned jingoism.

It’s not jingoism; look up what that actually means sometime. (I voted remain anyway and am as far from a British nationalist as you’re likely to get)

It’s a simple statement of fact. Make of it what you will.

 

[AlterEgo]

Who votes for The UK MEP?

About a third of the electorate bothers to vote.

 

[dosxuk]

Newsthump actually abandoning the sarcasm for a minute and getting things spot on.

"The genius of the Donald Tusk "special place in Hell" insult is that to be offended by it, you have to admit to having no plan for delivering Brexit, despite being full-throated in your support of it. You can't be offended without proving yourself ignorant at best, fraudulent at worst."

Krisnan Guru-Murthy was obviously thinking the same when he asked brexiteer Peter Bone on C4 News last night:

"Mr Bone, are you one of these foolish people who urged people to vote for something without any idea what it was about?"

"No, of course not!" he replied.

"Then what are you upset about? He obviously wasn't talking about you then was he?"

 

[bramling]

So it's OK to call people like Tusk nazis and call the eu eussr is it. Your very easily offended. The term snowflake springs to mind.

What I think doesn’t matter, my mind is well and truly made up on the subject of the EU. (I want a hard Brexit, I’m happy to have a decent deal but equally comfortable with none, and I would like to see a proper border between the U.K. and ROI.)

But for those more open to pursuasion in one direction or other, I don’t think Tusk will have pushed many towards remaining! I bet a good many will have watched and thought “you know what let’s just go with no deal”.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Why on earth wouldn’t it be a reasonable expectation for a prime minister and government who called a referendum and pledged to implement whatever result was chosen to have an implementation plan?

A lot of the difficulty is that Cameron completely banked 100% of his stake on one outcome.

Maybe because if they had you probably wouldn't have agreed with it? Or are you saying you would have been happy if it had been any form of Brexit? If so what's all the fuss about Mays plan then?

 

[bramling]

Maybe because if they had you probably wouldn't have agreed with it? Or are you saying you would have been happy if it had been any form of Brexit? If so what's all the fuss about Mays plan then?

I seem to remember a certain speech by Cameron. All together now, “out of the single market...”!

 

[dosxuk]

I seem to remember a certain speech by Cameron. All together now, “out of the single market...”!

Indeed, it was the brexiteers who were saying there was no worry of us leaving the common market, and anyone saying otherwise was just part of project fear.

 

[krus_aragon]

Oh, and who by any chance composes the EU Council? Isn't it by the leaders and ministers of each EU state?

I wonder who chose THEM to be in the Council...

Foreign electorates in foreign countries.

I'm pretty sure one member was chosen (indirectly) by the UK electorate. The rest are, of course, chosen by other electorates to represent other countries.

The vast majority of UK MPs aren't elected by people in my home nation (Wales): they're chosen by a "foreign electorate" . To play reducto ad absurdum, all but one MPs are elected by a foreign electorate, i.e. not my constituency. They're still needed for fair representation.

 

[Giugiaro]

It’s not jingoism; look up what that actually means sometime.
It’s a simple statement of fact. Make of it what you will.

True. If it wasn't for all this Brexit ordeal, May (or Cameron) would be in the EU Council as an insider and not an outsider.
But I guess the British can't bother with EU politics anymore. Otherwise, instead of all this nonsense, the UK would be at the forefront of EU reform. Maybe even push someone into the Council and/or Commission Presidency.

The vast majority of UK MPs aren't elected by people in my home nation (Wales): they're chosen by a "foreign electorate". To play reducto ad absurdum, all but one MPs are elected by a foreign electorate, i.e. not my constituency. They're still needed for fair representation.

That's the struggle I have when trying to explain why we have EU elections in the first place. The main reason I believe these elections aren't given the respect they deserve is how the ballot is designed.

EU elections are masked as national legislative elections, apparently to make it "more relatable" to the general public. But this eventually led the ballot to become more of a gigantic poll for the next national elections, more than an EU election of... something...