Merseyrail new rolling stock

[507 001]

Merseyrail refurbished the units back in 02-04 to give them another 10 years (at least) of life because if nothing had been done they would have needed withdrawal around now.

and I know hall road has been demolished, and if you look at the date of my post you would notice it was written months before the depot was demolished.

and one unit did recieve arriva corporate livery, this was the prototype refurb unit, 508 123, http://kevinwills.fotopic.net/p9875316.html

 

[Crossforth]

Merseyrail refurbished the units back in 02-04 to give them another 10 years (at least) of life because if nothing had been done they would have needed withdrawal around now.

and I know hall road has been demolished, and if you look at the date of my post you would notice it was written months before the depot was demolished.

and one unit did recieve arriva corporate livery, this was the prototype refurb unit, 508 123, http://kevinwills.fotopic.net/p9875316.html

D: That livery does not suite a 508 at all, has there been any news on a change of rolling stock?

 

[MCR247]

The 508/3s are back at Eastleigh

 

[royaloak]

Saw them pass through Basingstoke on Tue 15/12/09 at 1214, couldn't get any numbers though I am afraid, any one know what 66 was pulling then (and the barrier coaches) would be much appreciated.

 

[poshbakerloo]

and one unit did recieve arriva corporate livery, this was the prototype refurb unit, 508 123, http://kevinwills.fotopic.net/p9875316.html

Looks pretty good.

Do they actually need replacing, or if it just 'coz they is old'

 

[northwichcat]

Do they actually need replacing, or if it just 'coz they is old'

Everytime tracks are modernised it causes problems for 507s and 508s. New underground track in Liverpool caused every wheel to need to be replaced and an unacceptable level of disruption. Then not long after a similar issue occured where a large number of shoes stopped operating and needed replacement. They do run a lot more smoothly than Pacers, but then you'd expect that as they were built properly in the first place.

Extra trains are needed in Merseyside to reinstate the quarter hourly services to Chester and Ellesemere Port, which were cut back to send the 508s to Silverlink, so if the 508s that have now been freed up aren't still in a good enough condition to use for the next few years, or if some stay down South then new units will have to be ordered.

 

[mbonwick]

They need replaced because of their age. I believe corrosion is rife among them, and tbh, 30-year old stock is nowhere near as nice or as safe as modern units.

 

[poshbakerloo]

They need replaced because of their age. I believe corrosion is rife among them

ahhh fair enough. Sometimes I do think trains are taken you just because of their age...

 

[Trapperjohn407]

I reckon Merseyrail will go for something like the new 378's, that London overground are bringing in. They are dual voltage, so will be in place for future electrification scemes. The seating arrangements would have to be changed, as longitudinal seating would not go down well in Merseyside !! As for loading guage problems, this is more of a problem on the tight curves on the Loop, rather than on the straighter Northern line Link between Central and the portal at Leeds Street. 455's and 319's would make it, but not on the wirral line loop, as the cars are a couple of inches longer.

 

[northwichcat]

No and the interior of 378s isn't really suitable for people doing journeys like Southport to Liverpool South Parkway which is an hour in length and they'll be taking luggage with them. There's also the people living in rural parts of The Wirral who'll need bike provision.

I don't think there's any issues with how long new Merseyrail trains can be - Capenhurst is one the smallest stations on the Merseyrail network and if you look at a 3 car 508 stopped there then there is plenty of spare platform length: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Capenhurst_railway_station_1.jpg

 

[ukrob]

I don't think there's any issues with how long new Merseyrail trains can be - Capenhurst is one the smallest stations on the Merseyrail network and if you look at a 3 car 508 stopped there then there is plenty of spare platform length: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Capenhurst_railway_station_1.jpg

Bit of a strange comment when the underground stations can only accommodate 6 carriages. So therefore trains need to be in multiples of one, two, or three carriages. It isn't going to change from three.

 

[Trapperjohn407]

I was referring to the length of each individual car, rather than the overall length of the units. They could couple together as many units as they liked of 507/8 and still get round the loop. Don't forget the 503 units of old, they were not exactly small. When i was a kid i remember the 313's on trial on the system as well. Even if they borrowed 455's or 319's, they could run as 4 car (which is better than 3). No way could they run 8 car units......No, i see 313's going up north, plus the surplus 508's, to help out, just until the new stock is built which i am sure will be along the lines of a 378 variant.
Merseyrail has huge potential, as it is at capacity as we speak, they have to expand, and they have the signalling in place for a lot more trains. I would like to see, Wigan (via Kirkby), Rainford-Skem, Preston, plus Wrexham is an absolute must!!! Merseytravel reckon they can electrify this line for 75 mill, but Network rail won't entertain this, they want 200 mill for the job. It is stalemate.

 

[MCR247]

No and the interior of 378s isn't really suitable for people doing journeys like Southport to Liverpool South Parkway which is an hour in length and they'll be taking luggage with them. There's also the people living in rural parts of The Wirral who'll need bike provision.

I don't think there's any issues with how long new Merseyrail trains can be - Capenhurst is one the smallest stations on the Merseyrail network and if you look at a 3 car 508 stopped there then there is plenty of spare platform length: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Capenhurst_railway_station_1.jpg

Why not? The interior can be changed. Thats the least to be worrying about

 

[Burkitt]

This image created by Paul Burkitt-Gray is based on a photo by Wikimedia user Sunil060902 distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike License, and as such is released under the same license.

Here's a mockup I did of what Mersyrail's new trains might look like if they go for a version of the dual voltage Electrostar based on the London Overground class 378.

 

[Skie]

Anyone know how long Electrostar and Desiro's are?

The 507/8's are 20m's long, which is mentioned in the RUS as most others are around 23m which can make a difference in platform lengths and the trains that will fit.

 

[90019]

I think the electrostars are about 20m long.

 

[Multiple Unit]

That Livery actually suits htose units one thing that can be done about Merseyrails Underground Stations only being able to accept 6 Car units is to have units that have shorter in lenghth cabs with doors aon each side that probably be simmler to the Unit In the photo so that you would accomadate more seats agin on a simmler basis to the Tyne & Wyer Metro.

 

[jopsuk]

Anyone know how long Electrostar and Desiro's are?

The 507/8's are 20m's long, which is mentioned in the RUS as most others are around 23m which can make a difference in platform lengths and the trains that will fit.

Electrostars and most Electric Desiros (barring the 444, which is an "intercity" layout) are ~20m carriages- though generally about 10-40cm longer than the PEP-style and mrk3 commuter units.

But given that we're talking about sixty units, I'm sure a slightly customised design could be built short enough to fit

 

[northwichcat]

From the Merseyside RUS:

The proposed rolling stock replacement
creates an opportunity, which will not occur
for another 30 years. This involves the choice
of new rolling stock which could provide a
significant opportunity to address a number of
gaps that exist in this RUS area.
The replacement, whether new or redeployed
from elsewhere, could be capable of operating
on both AC (overhead) and DC (third-rail)
power supply. This could unlock additional
journey opportunities and increase operational
flexibility. These benefits are magnified
when incremental extension of electrification
is considered.
The DfT is preparing a long-term traction
energy strategy and economic model to
be used in determining the case for further
electrification schemes on the network.
Once the DfT strategy is declared (expected
during 2009), the RUS recommends that
consideration is given to rolling stock provision
and the extent of electrification in the area in
an integrated manner.
Any new rolling stock may be in two, three,
or four-car formations with the appropriate
seating arrangements and capacity, luggage
room, whether there will be toilets on board
and whether the units will be air conditioned.
The ability to work on tight track curvature
should be considered in the design process.
Introducing additional capacity during the
peak, whether as longer trains or more
frequent short trains, will generally require
additional rolling stock to be sourced. The
standard approach when assessing these
options in a RUS is to include the full lease
cost of the extra rolling stock unit(s), giving
due consideration to the types that might
be available from leasing companies or
manufacturers if new build is required.
The RUS therefore seeks to identify principles
for future rolling stock provision, as a
contribution to a wider rolling stock strategy to
be developed by or on behalf of government.
A modern purpose-built fleet would have
lightweight, modular, bogie vehicles with
gangway connections and wide access points
at 1/3 and 2/3 of the way along the body sides.
Train formation has yet to be determined but
is likely to be three-car formations given the
nature of the network. The aims should be
to enable:
additional rolling stock to be introduced
incrementally on routes in the Merseyside
RUS area
appropriate rolling stock to be deployed on
each service group.