Yikes! Day trip to Reading, arriving by 10am

[ChrisTheRef]

Help!

I have an interview at The University of Reading on Wednesday 20th Jan 2010, which I have to register for at 10am, so I'm looking at arriving in Reading station by 9:30 at the latest.
I'm returning on the same day anytime after about 5pm

I have a 16-25 railcard, and the cheapest I can see is....£85! No wonder students don't have any money.

Really really need help on this one guys. Cheers

 

[Greenback]

You can get it down to £63 by buying an Anytime Single for the outward at £42.55 and an Advance Single for the return at £20.45 (eg 1511, 1611, 1641, 1741). If you can stay in Reading until the late trains at 2011 and 211, it drops to £13.55, making the total fare £56.10.

Source: East Coast 1520.

 

[tony_mac]

it's £35 for a room in the Travelodge!

If you go for a route London ticket, then an off-peak with a railcard would be valid on any train to London, and on the 09:06 departure from Paddington, arrive Reading 09:30 (according to NFM03)

 

[John @ home]

I have an interview at The University of Reading on Wednesday 20th Jan 2010, which I have to register for at 10am, so I'm looking at arriving in Reading station by 9:30 at the latest.
I'm returning on the same day anytime after about 5pm

I have a 16-25 railcard, and the cheapest I can see is....£85!

Yes. The railcard Anytime Return Liverpool - Reading route Banbury increases by 6.6% from £79.85 to £85.15 on 2 January 2010. That's just one exmple of the way in which train companies are reacting to the need to reduce regulated fares by increasing non-regulated fares substantially.

If I had an important interview in Reading at 10:00, I would not travel that morning if I needed to perform at my best. The restrictions on the railcard Off-Peak Return Liverpool - Reading route Banbury (£45.00 from 2 January) are:

OUTWARD & RETURN JOURNEYS
By any train except those scheduled to depart before 0930.

I would travel the previous evening and stay in a hotel. This can easily be done for a total less than £85.15. For example, Travelodge currently have 5 hotels 0 - 4 miles from Reading available on 19 January with prices ranging £29 - £35, giving a total cost of £74 - £80.

If you really must travel there and back in a day, an arrangement such as Greenback suggests may well be the most suitable option.

 

[mathmo]

I agree with the last two posts: go the night before and stay in a hotel/Travelodge/B&B. The Reading Central Travelodge is an easy walk from Reading Station (though likely to be a bit noisy due to its location) or the Reading Whitley Travelodge is a bus ride away (assuming you don't arrive too late). Both are under two miles' walk from the University (or there are regular buses from the middle of town).

You could probably save a few pounds by buying Advance tickets each way but the flexibility means that it's definitely worth paying £45 for the Off-Peak Return.

 

[mumrar]

No wonder students don't have any money.

No, that'll be the drinking, nice clothes and shopping trips out (this is a big generalisation, don't be offended). You could start by telling us what station you are travelling from, just a thought. I'm gonna use Liverpool as a guess from your info under the avatar. If you want to save money and don't mind carrying lots of paper, then fare splitting is your best option. It gives you the flexibility to use any train on a series of SDR tickets and in total, with railcard, costs £45.15. You need to buy SDRs for the following:
Liverpool-Crewe;
Crewe-Stafford;
Stafford-Leamington;
Leamington-Banbury;
Banbury-Oxford;
and Oxford-Reading.
I think this is the best balance of saving money, but being able to travel on any trains yoou like.

 

[John @ home]

If you go for a route London ticket, then an off-peak with a railcard would be valid on any train to London, and on the 09:06 departure from Paddington, arrive Reading 09:30 (according to NFM03)

I'm not sure. I didn't suggest that because of the restrictions on arrival at Reading.

Standard Class Return
From : 0435 LIVERPOOL STNS
To : 0403 READING STATIONS
Route : 00200 - +LONDON
Discount : 16-25 RAILCARD
SVR - OFF-PEAK RETURN VWC
1 Adult @£ 50.25 (NFM 05 price is £50.05)
Restriction : 2C
FOR TRAVEL TO OR VIA: London Terminals, Milton Keynes, Watford, Stevenage, Reading, Kensington Olympia, Bedford, Luton and Luton Airport Parkway.
These restrictions apply Monday to Friday. By any train on other days.

OUTWARD TRAVEL You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE as shown below:
RETURN TRAVEL You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART as shown below:

DEPART: LONDON EUSTON Between 0905 & 1514 (inc.) and at or after 1832.
ARRIVE: LONDON EUSTON At or after 1055

DEPART: LONDON PADDINGTON Between 0903 & 1647 (inc.) and at or after 1831. (see note below)
ARRIVE: LONDON PADDINGTON At or after 1039. (see note below)

DEPART: READING Between 0930 & 1712 (inc.) and at or after 1900. (see note below)
ARRIVE: READING At or after 1008 (see note below)

Holders of 16-25, Senior, Disabled Persons, HM Forces and Family & Friends Railcards , New Deal Photocards and Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards travelling with Off-Peak tickets may use ANY Virgin train service, as long as the journey being made is priced by Virgin Trains. If the journey is not priced by Virgin Trains then the stated Off-Peak restrictions apply.

It is not clear which of many notes in the Fares Manual is appropriate. Perhaps FRPP is clearer.

 

[jopsuk]

I'd recommend traveling the day before too. 9:30 is too late to be aiming to get to Reading, and traveling earlier you're looking at departing at silly-o-clock in the morning- not ideal.

Contact the uni- whilst it is during term time, they might be able to arrange cheap accomodation for you.

 

[mathmo]

If you want to save money and don't mind carrying lots of paper, then fare splitting is your best option. It gives you the flexibility to use any train on a series of SDR tickets and in total, with railcard, costs £45.15. You need to buy SDRs for the following:
Liverpool-Crewe;
Crewe-Stafford;
Stafford-Leamington;
Leamington-Banbury;
Banbury-Oxford;
and Oxford-Reading.
I think this is the best balance of saving money, but being able to travel on any trains yoou like.

This doesn't work because there is a £12 minimum fare on any 16-25 Railcard tickets bought for use before 10am. I don't deny that something like this might be possible but the minimum fare makes it very difficult to achieve.

 

[devon_metro]

Help!

I have an interview at The University of Reading on Wednesday 20th Jan 2010, which I have to register for at 10am, so I'm looking at arriving in Reading station by 9:30 at the latest.
I'm returning on the same day anytime after about 5pm

I have a 16-25 railcard, and the cheapest I can see is....£85! No wonder students don't have any money.

Really really need help on this one guys. Cheers

What are you suggesting? Its a peak time journey thus will be expensive. If you are so outraged at the price find somebody to drive you!

 

[mumrar]

Doh, he would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky minimum fares! I'll try and salvage it by saying that the same SDRs without the railcard is a total of £68.40 which is still cheaper than the accomodation and night before option.

 

[yorkie]

An Off Peak ticket from outside the Network Area to a destination inside the Network area is valid on any train from London to the destination (outward).

On the return, it is valid on any train to London.

So a Liverpool-Reading is valid on any train from Paddington-Reading / Reading-Paddington. It is only restricted between Liverpool & Reading (with a Railcard it isn't restricted if using a Virgin train)

What are you suggesting? Its a peak time journey thus will be expensive. If you are so outraged at the price find somebody to drive you!

It will cost him no more at 'peak' time than off peak, as the Off Peak ticket is valid on any train. This costs £50.

How long does £50 last in drink money for a typical student?

Doh, he would have gotten away with it...

Given how few guards seem to remember about the minimum fares he probably would get away with it however in this case I do not think it's worth the hassle when the through ticket is £50 and valid on any train.

I have a 16-25 railcard, and the cheapest I can see is....£85! No wonder students don't have any money.

If students used Virgin instead of thieving scumbags XC, and didn't drink too much, they'd have loads of cash spare

 

[mumrar]

If he can catch a Virgin train to Reading I will be impressed, being as they ceased over two years ago. Just to revise my fare splitting, the SDRs from Liv-Cre, Sta-Lms and Oxf-Rdg all cost more than £12.00. So using your railcard on these tickets only makes the total £63.20

 

[tony_mac]

If he can catch a Virgin train to Reading I will be impressed, being as they ceased over two years ago. Just to revise my fare splitting, the SDRs from Liv-Cre, Sta-Lms and Oxf-Rdg all cost more than £12.00. So using your railcard on these tickets only makes the total £63.20

with a railcard it isn't restricted on a Virgin train from Liverpool to London (and only Virgin trains). He already said it isn't restricted on the journey from London to Reading as that is in the Network Area.

 

[mumrar]

with a railcard it isn't restricted on a Virgin train from Liverpool to London (and only Virgin trains). He already said it isn't restricted on the journey from London to Reading as that is in the Network Area.

Ok, that's fair enough and I didn't follow that, but it means a 5.27 departure of Lime St and 9.09 in to Reading, but with Avantix usual over generous 55 mins between arriving at Euston and departing Paddington.

 

[John @ home]

An Off Peak ticket from outside the Network Area to a destination inside the Network area is valid on any train from London to the destination (outward).

My difficulty is that the wording is not quite as definite as that:

Restriction 2C
Off-Peak tickets for journeys starting within the Network Area to destinations outside the Network Area with travel via London are valid by any train to London, to connect with trains from London.

Off-Peak tickets for journeys starting outside the Network Area for travel via London use restrictions from the origin station to London and return. Unless shown otherwise, they are unrestricted between London and the destination station, and return.

This leaves no doubt that on the Reading - Liverpool leg, the ticket is valid on any train between Reading and London. But in the Liverpool - Reading direction, it is unrestricted only Unless shown otherwise.

And in this instance there is a condition which shows otherwise:

Restriction 2C
ARRIVE: READING At or after 1008 (see note below)

I don't know which of the many notes is relevant. Without knowing that, I can't say confidently to the OP that a Y-P SVR Liverpool - Reading route + London will be accepted on an early morning Paddington - Reading train.

On the return, it is valid on any train to London.

Agreed.

Ok, that's fair enough and I didn't follow that, but it means a 5.27 departure of Lime St and 9.09 in to Reading, but with Avantix usual over generous 55 mins between arriving at Euston and departing Paddington.

If the ticket is valid at that time (see above) then this would meet the OP's needs:

06:05 Liverpool Lime Street - London Euston 08:22
09:06 London Paddington - Reading 09:30

 

[yorkie]

The Reading arrival restriction is intended for journeys toward London in the peak flow. I agree it's confusing, but it is always the case for any journey where the origin is outside the Network area and the destination is inside then the journey from London to destination is unrestricted, this is an accross-the-board rule inherited from BR days that applies to all applicable Off Peak (SVR) tickets.

NETWORK AREA:
The London & South East
Network Area is shown in the
London Area Fares section E0

Off-Peak tickets for journeys
starting within the Network
Area to destinations outside
the Network Area with travel
via London are valid by any
train to London, to connect
with trains from London.

Off-Peak tickets for journeys
starting outside the Network
Area for travel via London use
restrictions from the origin
station to London and return.
Unless shown otherwise, they
are unrestricted between
London and the destination
station, and return.

So it is unrestricted between London & Reading. Anything that suggests it is restricted between London & Reading is in conflict with that statement and I'm told that where conflicting statements applies, consumer laws state that the one most benefitial to the customer must prevail.

Euston to Paddington doesn't take too long, I'd allow plenty of time but in reality you'll get a much earlier train than journey planners suggest. At Paddington you'll be taken to the far end of the platforms, which is perfect to board a HST in standard class, no need to walk up the concourse. There's a little walk at Euston but it's only 5 minutes. It's quite feasible to do it train-to-train in 20 minutes but allow a lot more!

If there is any doubt about this then the OP could simply split at Slough. This is unrestricted Paddington-Slough and costs £46.75

A SDR Slough-Reading costs £5.30 (no restriction)

Total = £52.00

And a guarantee of no arguments with barrier drones at Reading.

Fast trains calling Slough are at 51 and 21 past the hour, so the 0851 would be perfect.

Edit: Just realised Slough-Reading would be subject to the daft minimum fare rule, adding £2.70 to the cost.

 

[John @ home]

The Reading arrival restriction is intended for journeys toward London in the peak flow.

I agree that was the original intention. But that was in the time of travel by Any Reasonable Route and in these times where everything is resolved by contract I am not content to recommend travel where the restrictions specifically forbid it. The obverse also applies. I am happy to recommend travel where I think it is not intended to be allowed, but the rules are clear that it is currently actually allowed.

it is always the case for any journey where the origin is outside the Network area and the destination is inside then the journey from London to destination is unrestricted, this is an accross-the-board rule inherited from BR days that applies to all applicable Off Peak (SVR) tickets.

I agree that the rule you state was inherited from BR days. This continued until 1999.

A Saver ticket from a station outside the Network Area to any station via London is subject only to the validity of the 'TO LONDON' portion of the journey except where outward travel from Swindon, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary via Euston is involved, when the restrictions above also apply.

By 2000, this had changed and the dreaded words Unless shown otherwise made their first appearance.

Saver tickets issued for journeys commencing outside the Network Area for travel via London take the restriction from the origin station to London and return. Unless shown otherwise on the following pages, they are unrestricted between London and the destination station and return.

This did not immediately affect the validity of SVRs from the north to Reading via London, because journeys arriving at Reading from the west were still restricted according to the time of departure from the origin rather than time of arrival at Reading.

By NFM 91 (Sep 2005 - Jan 2006) the wording had become almost identical to that quoted by yorkie above. The effect of this was that when the wording of the restriction at Reading was changed, tickets such as SVR Liverpool - Reading route + London ceased to be valid from Paddington in the morning peak. This had happened by NFM 02 (Jan - May 2009) when the relevant restriction at Reading was ARRIVE: READING At or after 1012 .

Anything that suggests it is restricted between London & Reading is in conflict with that statement and I'm told that where conflicting statements applies, consumer laws state that the one most benefitial to the customer must prevail.

I would love to be wrong, but I'm afraid I don't see a conflict. The words Unless shown otherwise cover the position. In addition, none of the internet site selling railway tickets will sell a Liverpool - Reading route + London ticket for the 0906 Paddington - Reading.

I do agree that, where there is a conflict in consumer terms, the law resolves this in favour of the consumer.

7. - (2) If there is doubt about the meaning of a written term, the interpretation which is most favourable to the consumer shall prevail but this rule shall not apply in proceedings brought under regulation 12.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19992083.htm

Regulation 12 concerns Injunctions to prevent continued use of unfair terms.

 

[Matt Taylor]

it's £35 for a room in the Travelodge!

Trvelodge in Reading is 5 mins walk from the station so it is not such a bad idea, it's not the Savoy but it does the job.

Posted from Reading Travelodge where I am staying for a few days!

 

[tony_mac]

Ok, that's fair enough and I didn't follow that, but it means a 5.27 departure of Lime St and 9.09 in to Reading, but with Avantix usual over generous 55 mins between arriving at Euston and departing Paddington.

I thought that you were just being sarcastic, I'm sorry it was a bit abrupt.

I would definitely stay in Reading for a 10am registration!

Anyway, according to NFM03, which I hope is still the same, the outward travel is only restricted by the departure times, and not the arrival times (the return is restricted by arrival times). Hence the 9:06 from Paddington to arrive Reading at 9:30 is ok for an outward ticket.

 

[John @ home]

according to NFM03, which I hope is still the same, the outward travel is only restricted by the departure times, and not the arrival times (the return is restricted by arrival times). Hence the 9:06 from Paddington to arrive Reading at 9:30 is ok for an outward ticket.

I hadn't spotted this change before:

National Fares Manual NFM 03 valid May - Sep 2009
Restriction : 2C
OUTWARD TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART as shown below:
RETURN TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE as shown below:

National Fares Manual NFM 04 valid Sep 2009 - Jan 2010
Restriction : 2C
OUTWARD TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE as shown below:
RETURN TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART as shown below:

I have not yet worked out the wider effect of this change.

 

[glynn80]

Just to clarify the situation for everyone, the Restriction Code 2C as stated within the FRPP is as follows:

Validity Code 2C

These restrictions apply Monday to Friday. By any train on other days.

-For journeys to/via Birmingham on CrossCountry, use restriction code 2V

For travel TO or VIA:

London Terminals, Milton Keynes, Watford, Stevenage, Reading, Kensington Olympia, Bedford, Luton and Luton Airport Parkway.

Outward Travel

You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE:

London Euston: Before 0720 or at or after 1130
London King’s Cross: At or after 1117
London Liverpool Street: At or after 1000 (see note below)
London Marylebone: At or after 1005
London Paddington: At or after 1039 (see note below)
London St Pancras International: At or after 1129
London Waterloo: At or after 1050
Kensington Olympia: At or after 1100
Bedford: At or after 0930
Luton, Luton Airport Parkway: At or after 1004
Milton Keynes Central: Before 0639 or at or after 1048
Reading: At or after 1008 (see note below)
Stevenage: At or after 1100
Stratford: At or after 1015
Watford Junction: Before 0644 and at or after 1045

Return Travel

You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART

London Euston: Between 0926 & 1500 (inc.) and at or after 1845
London King’s Cross: Between 0929 & 1457 (inc.) and at or after 1859. Also allowed at or after 1815 on Fridays only
London Liverpool Street: Between 0931 & 1628 (inc.) and at or after 1835 (see note below)
London Marylebone: At any time, but not valid on W&S services timed to depart before 0800 and between 1600 and 1900
London Paddington: Between 0903 & 1647 (inc.) and at or after 1831. (see note below)
London St Pancras International: Between 1026 & 1515 (inc.) and at or after 1859
London Waterloo: Between 0925 & 1630 (inc.) and at or after 1822
Kensington Olympia: Between 0915 & 1514 (inc.) and at or after 1812
Bedford: Between 0901 & 1629 (inc.) and at or after 1859
Luton, Luton Airport Parkway: Between 0901 & 1629 (inc.) and at or after 1859
Milton Keynes Central: Between 0951 & 1514 (inc.) and at or after 1914
Reading: Between 0930 & 1712 (inc.) and at or after 1900. (see note below)
Stevenage: Between 0939 & 1507 (inc.) and at or after 1909. Also allowed at or after 1835 on Fridays only
Stratford: At or before 1705 and at or after 1855
Watford Junction: Between 0938 & 1438 (inc.) and at or after 1838

NOTES:

When travelling via London, please see additional notes:

· When the origin of the outward portion of the ticket is related to Westbury, Castle Cary, Pewsey or Swindon the OUTWARD travel restrictions above also apply to the RETURN journey to London.

· Travel is permitted on the 1636 from London Liverpool Street to Braintree for destinations Hatfield Peverel to Braintree only.

· Travel is permitted on the 0603 London to Birmingham New St

Please note, Off-Peak restrictions will not apply on Virgin Trains services between 2nd April – 5th April inclusive

So the "At or after 1008" restriction at Reading, bars arrival into Reading until such time. The Network Area easement does not come into play due to the wording:

"Unless shown otherwise, they are unrestricted between London and the destination station, and return."

Obviously in this scenario it is shown otherwise that travel is barred into Reading until 1008.

 

[marcgr]

I made a mistake!

 

[tony_mac]

that's obviously intended for travelling into Reading and London , not outward, and they just reused the same restriction code.

Does the new NFM still say that the arrival restrictions only apply for the return portion?

Obviously I don't think passengers should be expected to abide by a rule that they aren't allowed to see, obviously wasn't intended, and which contradicts the publically available information.

Although splitting at Slough, if possible, would get round this anyway.

 

[glynn80]

Does the new NFM still say that the arrival restrictions only apply for the return portion?

I am unfamiliar with this particular easement. Where was it previously as I am having trouble locating within the FRPP?

 

[John @ home]

National Fares Manual NFM 03 valid May - Sep 2009
Restriction : 2C
OUTWARD TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART as shown below:
RETURN TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE as shown below:

National Fares Manual NFM 04 valid Sep 2009 - Jan 2010
Restriction : 2C
OUTWARD TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE as shown below:
RETURN TRAVEL
You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART as shown below:

Does the new NFM still say that the arrival restrictions only apply for the return portion?

My copy of NFM 05 has not yet arrived, so I don't yet know.

I am unfamiliar with this particular easement. Where was it previously as I am having trouble locating within the FRPP?

I wouldn't call it an easement. tony_mac was referring to the reversal of DEPART and ARRIVE for Restriction 2C in NFM 04, shown above. I don't yet know whether this is a simple typo or a significant policy change.

 

[glynn80]

My copy of NFM 05 has not yet arrived, so I don't yet know.

The Validity Code 2C I have posted above is from NFM 05, so you can take it that the word "ARRIVE" is used for Outward Travel as was the case in NFM 04.