Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[ScotRail158725]

Trident 699 operated on the 21 today. Another couple were on duty this morning.

e.g. 684 did the X37.

695/696 are parked with the other withdrawn tridents so i guess were down to 4

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Yeah , i wonder if the drivers have to learn the routes , or experienced drivers know anyway etc , Are the Edinburgh depots closer in a sense when compared to First Glasgows?

Central and Marine are relatively close although some of the routes operated are quite different.

Longstone is much further away on the west side of town

 

[ScotRail158725]

764-766 are now at Marine

 

[ScotRail158725]

More news about tridents. Seen in the December 2018 post in the Ensign moves forum 667, 682, 689, 692, 674, 676, 675, 679 & 681 have all been sold to EnsignBus with 667, 682, 689, 692 being sold onto Aintree Coaches. Aswell Lothian have bought from EnsignBus ex Go-Ahead London WVL368/376/387/392 LX11 CVM/CVS, LX60 DWY/DXG. We are also due WVL396/397 LX11 CVW/CVY witch we bought from them in October

 

[ScotRail158725]

More news about tridents. Seen in the December 2018 post in the Ensign moves forum 667, 682, 689, 692, 674, 676, 675, 679 & 681 have all been sold to EnsignBus with 667, 682, 689, 692 being sold onto Aintree Coaches. Aswell Lothian have bought from EnsignBus ex Go-Ahead London WVL368/376/387/392 LX11 CVM/CVS, LX60 DWY/DXG. We are also due WVL396/397 LX11 CVW/CVY witch we bought from them in October

Interesting to note aswell 679 SN04 ACV wich was apparently being preserved clearly isnt as its been sold here

 

[OmniCity999]

someone on another forum apparently seen a trident in historical Airlink livery down at Seafield recently. Methinks this will be preserved with 679 sold on.

 

[ScotRail158725]

someone on another forum apparently seen a trident in historical Airlink livery down at Seafield recently. Methinks this will be preserved with 679 sold on.

I seen a post about a trident in Airlink, but why would it be preserved and sold? 679 clearly isnt being preserved as its been sold to Ensigns and knowing their trak record of selling Metroline/Go-Ahead tridents stright to scrap after less than a month of being up for sale i reckon the rest will do the same including 679 if its not sold to a compamy within the next month

 

[route101]

Central and Marine are relatively close although some of the routes operated are quite different.

Longstone is much further away on the west side of town

Yeah always forget about Marine . I mean there must be drivers that have swapped between the depots or happen to know other depot routes .

 

[VioletEclipse]

When the Enviro 400 XLBs enter service in mid January? Early February? then the last three Tridents will retire, but how many B7TLs will also be withdrawn?, It can't be too many or they'll run out of space to store withdrawn buses awaiting sale.

 

[OmniCity999]

Seemingly 701 has been put aside for a project/sold.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Seemingly 701 has been put aside for a project/sold.

It's been VOR at Longstone since October, and recently it's disappeared off the tracker, my guess is they are selling it.
Also possible that they've noticed it's numerically their first ever Gemini, and so they're preserving it, but I feel that's unlikely.

 

[route101]

When the Enviro 400 XLBs enter service in mid January? Early February? then the last three Tridents will retire, but how many B7TLs will also be withdrawn?, It can't be too many or they'll run out of space to store withdrawn buses awaiting sale.

Have many been delivered yet?

 

[VioletEclipse]

Have many been delivered yet?

I've seen photos of Enviro 400 XLBs 1065, 1067-1071, 1073, 1075 and 1077 at Lothian, 1063 and 1066 have been seen, but not at Lothian or with registrations, I presume more will have been delivered than what I've seen pics of, as Seafield is full of them.

 

[OmniCity999]

There's also talk of a project to bring euro 3 vehicles up to Euro 4/5 to make them more desirable for sale/continued use.

 

[VioletEclipse]

There's also talk of a project to bring euro 3 vehicles up to Euro 4/5 to make them more desirable for sale/continued use.

Interesting, but it makes me wonder which option would be more economical in the long run; converting a huge amount of euro 3 buses to 4/5, or converting them directly to eletric? Or even selling a huge chunk of them and replacing them with new electric buses.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Interesting, but it makes me wonder which option would be more economical in the long run; converting a huge amount of euro 3 buses to 4/5, or converting them directly to eletric? Or even selling a huge chunk of them and replacing them with new electric buses.

Converting them to electric sounds all good, but i doubt it would make them more desirable. Independents don't want to mess with the issues electric vehicles bring.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Converting them to electric sounds all good, but i doubt it would make them more desirable. Independents don't want to mess with the issues electric vehicles bring.

True for most of them I suppose, but I think we'll see some with pure second-hand electric fleets soon, or at least I certainly hope so.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

How long has it been since the last service change? It feels like the service changes should be commencing some point soon. (February/March) time

 

[ScotRail158725]

How long has it been since the last service change? It feels like the service changes should be commencing some point soon. (February/March) time

Last major one was July 2017 with the main one last February so i guess next month. Also 701 has been withdrawn, not sure why they've withdrawn just 1 wich makes me pretty sure they have plans for it. Heres a few i think. Training bus, 3 Bridges Tour however it needs 2 vehicles wich make me think thats unlikely, Some sort of engine conversion, preservation eventhough it seems a bit early.

 

[OmniCity999]

I've heard a rumour Artemis may be involved. Those chaps who converted dart 69 to hydraulic hybrid a think.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

On any subject of bringing any bus from euro3 or 4 upto euro6 Cummins have a valid way to do that, Cummins have also stated that fuel gains are achievable with a retrofit of the latest ISBe engines with Stop Start, the latest variant of ZFs Ecolife Gearbox and other electrical components such as an electric power steering and electrified engine cooling fans.

Of course given that many buses at euro3 or 4 are rather old many wont justify £30-40k to do this.

 

[VioletEclipse]

I've heard a rumour Artemis may be involved. Those chaps who converted dart 69 to hydraulic hybrid a think.

It was Dart 65, number 69 (SK52 OJO) was destroyed in a fire many years ago

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Does anyone know how many new buses are still expected from Wrightbus? I know they had an order in and signed an agreement a couple of years ago with Lothian for 316 buses from 2016-2020 so within the next 2 years, how many more are due?

I know 701(702 now)-825 are all Euro 3 (701-750 55 plate, 751-825 56 plate). Knowing how Lothian operate, they like to have new buses within the fleet and with more buses due, do you think they'd even go down the route of putting in new euro 6 engines when they can sell them as is, and invest in the new fleet? It seems strange that Lothian would put new engines in buses over 13 years old. Gingerbus1991 has already said that it would be £30k at least to do this and with 125 buses that would need done, £3.75m would be needed to do that. Although it would mean they'd be on the road for many years to come...

Unless of course Lothian plan to put those re-engined buses on to LCB to replace the ironically newer ex Londoners (or even expand more)...

 

[Lothian285]

Does anyone know how many new buses are still expected from Wrightbus? I know they had an order in and signed an agreement a couple of years ago with Lothian for 316 buses from 2016-2020 so within the next 2 years, how many more are due?.

I believe Lothian and its subsidiaries have so far received 116 new buses from Wrightbus since the order for 316 buses was announced, I do however have a feeling that the rest of the order may have been cancelled with Lothian now choosing Alexander Dennis as their preferred manufacturer.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Does anyone know how many new buses are still expected from Wrightbus? I know they had an order in and signed an agreement a couple of years ago with Lothian for 316 buses from 2016-2020 so within the next 2 years, how many more are due?

I know 701(702 now)-825 are all Euro 3 (701-750 55 plate, 751-825 56 plate). Knowing how Lothian operate, they like to have new buses within the fleet and with more buses due, do you think they'd even go down the route of putting in new euro 6 engines when they can sell them as is, and invest in the new fleet? It seems strange that Lothian would put new engines in buses over 13 years old. Gingerbus1991 has already said that it would be £30k at least to do this and with 125 buses that would need done, £3.75m would be needed to do that. Although it would mean they'd be on the road for many years to come...

Unless of course Lothian plan to put those re-engined buses on to LCB to replace the ironically newer ex Londoners (or even expand more)...

Not to mention many of the older buses would need/benefit from an interior refurb and new paint job, of course, these engine Retrofits are for Cummins engines, something Lothian have more or less eradicated in the future fleet.

But..I do not think lothian will have cancelled there order with Wrights, I only reckon Lothian have opted for ADL as they’ve purchased Plaxton Panthers, a subsidiary of ADL, regardless of the bodywork thats chosen there still volvo powered, moreover to my count theres still 124 B7TLs to be replaced? That number coincides with the remaining Wright orders, perhaps even given them surplus vehicles, recently I have started to get the impression some of the new vehicles still to come will be used for LCB, as I really do think lothian are deadly serious about staying in west lothian for the long run.

Even with the B8Ls that are going into service shortly these will only be able to replace a portion of the remaining Euro3 B7TLs, Again, I highly doubt that we wont see more Gemini’s from Wright(remaining from there initial order) given there long standing with the company, despite the horrors of Wrights partnership with VDL for there Integral products, there Gemini and Eclipse bodyworks are still up to the job.

Of course if we have to see a few e400’s with B5TL chassis is it really the end of an era, of course not, l think viewing an operator who have a working relationship with various bus builders is a good thing.

 

[VioletEclipse]

I believe Lothian and its subsidiaries have so far received 116 new buses from Wrightbus since the order for 316 buses was announced, I do however have a feeling that the rest of the order may have been cancelled with Lothian now choosing Alexander Dennis as their preferred manufacturer.

Has there been any news on whether or not Lothian will continue buying from Wrightbus or not?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Has there been any news on whether or not Lothian will continue buying from Wrightbus or not?

Not sure but id like to see Lothian buy Envrio 400 mmc not XLBs just normal length & Gemini 3s

 

[VioletEclipse]

Not sure but id like to see Lothian buy Envrio 400 mmc not XLBs just normal length & Gemini 3s

I doubt the Enviro 400XLBs will be a huge success (getting round corners), so They will continue with standard length I think, Personally I'd quite like to see them trialling an Electric Citaro when it comes out, don't know how likely that is though.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I doubt the Enviro 400XLBs will be a huge success (getting round corners), so They will continue with standard length I think, Personally I'd quite like to see them trialling an Electric Citaro when it comes out, don't know how likely that is though.

Smart allocation on suitable routes with abit of forward planning from drivers and they should be fine.

I highly suspect they’ll be used on the 25s, restalrig may be abit tight but you wouldnt be a bus driver if you couldnt rise to the challenge!

They would be better if they’d had powered Rear-Steering.

 

[OmniCity999]

Star

Smart allocation on suitable routes with abit of forward planning from drivers and they should be fine.

I highly suspect they’ll be used on the 25s, restalrig may be abit tight but you would be a bus driver if you couldnt rise to a challenge!

These vehicles are all allocated to Central Depot. The 25 is a Marine / Longstone route. It's said these buses are due to be based on busy Central routes that serve the Bridges, Lothian Road - Morningside so the 16, 37 etc routes, with routes in Silverknowes being altered to accommodate.

This allows them to lower the amount of buses used in these areas and allow resources to be used elsewhere.