Electrification of Northern Wales

[sw1ller]

Some of them have trees growing out of them, so I'd question their usage stats to be honest. Likewise, the solar panel farm doesn't really need to use them either seeing as the creatures don't really moo-ve.

Plenty of sheep around the solar panels today when I went past. Granted there’s no cows anymore but dairy farm crossing is still in use.

There are 44 ‘structures’ to wire under on the route including christleton Tunney and two fixed pipelines, 4 are already wired (including 1 pipeline) and two other structures cause no issue whatsoever, that leaves 38 structures to negotiate wires under or demolish bridges.

That then leaves the question of how much of Chester needs to be wired? 4,3 & 2 for sure but virgin use the main, through and goods lines a lot with empty stock. Sure that can be restricted but with more services on the Warrington line, it starts to get a little cramped.

As much as I want it done, I can’t see it happening, not even the new valley type.

What’s the business case for electrifying Chester to Halton and Acton?

 

[LM93]

What about this new fangled 'discrete' electrification, AKA do the easy bits?

 

[Aictos]

One point I like to ask about Northern Wales being wired up if that ever happens is will they be able to electrify:

Wolverhampton to Chester via Wrexham
Crewe to Chester
Wrexham to Bidston (As part of the Merseyrail network)

???

 

[craigybagel]

One point I like to ask about Northern Wales being wired up if that ever happens is will they be able to electrify:

Wolverhampton to Chester via Wrexham
Crewe to Chester
Wrexham to Bidston (As part of the Merseyrail network)

???

Will they be able to? Of course, pretty much anything is possible if you throw enough money at it.

Will they find and be prepared to spend the money in question?

Probably not.

Wolverhampton - Wrexham is still going to see a lot of diesel trains unless you wire both the Cambrian lines and the Marches, so it's hard to see any kind of cost/benefit working there. Wolves - Shrewsbury at a push, but I'd be amazed to see anything beyond that.

 

[sw1ller]

As I was driving up the NWC the other day I went past a train with a big blue beam coming out the top. Never seen it before so I did a little digging and there’s a chance it was Network Rails NMT. A train that goes round the network checking OHLE and measuring clearances. Does anyone have any idea what else they use the train for? Any other purpose this train could have being near Rhyl? I don’t want to get anyone’s hopes up by speculating it was measuring clearances for future electrification!

 

[mmh]

The NMT is a bright yellow HST, coincidentally I saw it stopped on the approach to the Conwy bridge about a fortnight ago. Unfortunately I was getting absolutely soaked so didn't walk across to the original bridge to get any pictures. I think that's the first time I've ever seen it stationary (it was there for a good while - long enough for me to get to Conwy!) but it gets all over the place.

 

[driver_m]

As I was driving up the NWC the other day I went past a train with a big blue beam coming out the top. Never seen it before so I did a little digging and there’s a chance it was Network Rails NMT. A train that goes round the network checking OHLE and measuring clearances. Does anyone have any idea what else they use the train for? Any other purpose this train could have being near Rhyl? I don’t want to get anyone’s hopes up by speculating it was measuring clearances for future electrification!

Much as I'd like to see knitting up there. I think hell will freeze over, before North Wales gets wired. If the govt can't sign off no brainers like Wigan-Lostock and Stalybridge - Vic, and the Welsh Assembly is more geared up to looking after the South, then I just can't see it sadly.

 

[sw1ller]

It was dark so I didn’t see the train. Didn’t get much time to look at it with a closing speed of about 150mph. I was more fixated on the light popping out the top. It’s not something I’ve ever seen before. So I take it, it does several jobs at a time. I thought it was wishful thinking. I just figured with the investment figures banded around of late, they may have been revisiting the possibility again. Ah well.

 

[Eccles1983]

It was dark so I didn’t see the train. Didn’t get much time to look at it with a closing speed of about 150mph. I was more fixated on the light popping out the top. It’s not something I’ve ever seen before. So I take it, it does several jobs at a time. I thought it was wishful thinking. I just figured with the investment figures banded around of late, they may have been revisiting the possibility again. Ah well.

It needs to be done before any new traction arrives.

For example 170's, they caused issues with certain tunnels near Walsden. Are TfW getting any of them or new loco hauled gear?

 

[PHILIPE]

Known as the "Flying Banana"

 

[krus_aragon]

It needs to be done before any new traction arrives.

For example 170's, they caused issues with certain tunnels near Walsden. Are TfW getting any of them or new loco hauled gear?

Class 230s coming to the Conwy Valley (short term) are the first new stock we're expecting in the area. That'll need to be cleared Chester-Llandudno in order to get here each day. After that, it's the MkIV stock displacing the MkIIIs.

 

[sw1ller]

Class 230s coming to the Conwy Valley (short term) are the first new stock we're expecting in the area. That'll need to be cleared Chester-Llandudno in order to get here each day. After that, it's the MkIV stock displacing the MkIIIs.

I have a suspicion that they won’t be stabled in Chester each night. It’ll stay in junction. From what it says on Vivarail website, they only need a 10 minute inspection and Only has to visit its main depot infrequently. It can get fuelled up anywhere. The only thing that’ll cause issues will be emptying the CET. But again, that’s as easily sorted as the fuel. I used to drive a truck in the RAF that did that job. Could be the same case in Wrexham General. Loads of room to stable 2-3 units there at night. I don’t think they’ll be moving around the network half as much as people think.

 

[krus_aragon]

I have a suspicion that they won’t be stabled in Chester each night. It’ll stay in junction. From what it says on Vivarail website, they only need a 10 minute inspection and Only has to visit its main depot infrequently. It can get fuelled up anywhere. The only thing that’ll cause issues will be emptying the CET. But again, that’s as easily sorted as the fuel. I used to drive a truck in the RAF that did that job. Could be the same case in Wrexham General. Loads of room to stable 2-3 units there at night. I don’t think they’ll be moving around the network half as much as people think.

I'd forgottn that detail. And with bespoke couplings they wouldn't be able to send it down the coast as part of the same ECS move as other units. But when exams are due I think TfW would prefer to send the Conwy Valley unit to Chester by rail rather than on the back of a low-loader.

They're expected to stable at Wrexham once the full Borderlands service is up and running, iirc.

 

[driver_m]

Wonder how a 230 will perform on a slippy Gresford bank with an engine out if that's where they'll be stabling?

 

[D365]

Wonder how a 230 will perform on a slippy Gresford bank with an engine out if that's where they'll be stabling?

Is low-speed acceleration not provided by battery power?

 

[furnessvale]

Is low-speed acceleration not provided by battery power?

If the rails are slippery a train cannot use all the available power in any case.

 

[sw1ller]

Wonder how a 230 will perform on a slippy Gresford bank with an engine out if that's where they'll be stabling?

I will tell you a 150 is pretty s*i*e in these conditions. At least a 230 will have an extra 3 driving motors! Taking in mind these will be 3 car units. And it’s not gresford I’m concerned with, that’s a mere bump compared with hawarden, which they’ll be doing a hell of a lot more!