GN Class 717

[psychopompos]

Would the introduction of the 717s bring 3-car services to an end? There should be enough 717 + 313 6-car units now?

 

[jon0844]

Any idea about services on the Hertford loop? Welwyn already gets the 700s

From Hertford North (subject to usual disclaimer...)

2J01 0433
2F01 0607
2J17 0642
2J21 0702
2F04 0709
2J27 0732
2J30 0744
2J33 0802
2F14 0809
2F19 0829
2J42 0844
2J47 0917
2J57 1030
2J65 1130
2F52 1135
2J69 1200
2J71 1217
2F64 1305
2F68 1335
2J83 1347
2J87 1417
2J89 1430
2J09 1530
2J15 1600
2F02 1631
2J27 1706
2F08 1711
2J35 1743
2J38 1803
2F32 1911
2F37 1941
2J53 1947
2J57 2017
2J59 2030
2J63 2100
2J71 2200
2J73 2216
2F76 0012

 

[jon0844]

Indeed and as GTR have stated as far as they're aware the information to which services will go over to Class 717 operation has not yet been made clear to them so until there's more concrete evidence of what services will go over to Class 717 operation, it's just guesswork at this time.

As to stopping at stations between Finsbury Park and Welwyn Garden City/Stevenage via Hertford North, as they're 6 car fixed formation trains - are they stopping at the 6 car Class 313 markers or have they had to adjust the stopping positions?

There are new markers. Most are in the same 6 car position, others on new poles further back if the signal is on the right hand side and otherwise blocked by the stairs!

 

[bramling]

Thanks for sharing,is it known when they start to replace Letchworth-moorgate services?

There's no such thing as a Letchworth-Moorgate service anymore. Since last May the inner suburban services run no further north than Stevenage. There are still a handful of early morning and late night workings to/from Letchworth sidings, and a few which have been regularly stabling in Hitchin up yard vice elsewhere, however these all run ECS north of Stevenage.

 

[H0use]

From Hertford North (subject to usual disclaimer...)

2J01 0433
2F01 0607
2J17 0642
2J21 0702
2F04 0709
2J27 0732
2J30 0744
2J33 0802
2F14 0809
2F19 0829
2J42 0844
2J47 0917
2J57 1030
2J65 1130
2F52 1135
2J69 1200
2J71 1217
2F64 1305
2F68 1335
2J83 1347
2J87 1417
2J89 1430
2J09 1530
2J15 1600
2F02 1631
2J27 1706
2F08 1711
2J35 1743
2J38 1803
2F32 1911
2F37 1941
2J53 1947
2J57 2017
2J59 2030
2J63 2100
2J71 2200
2J73 2216
2F76 0012

Amazing, thanks!

 

[Aictos]

There's no such thing as a Letchworth-Moorgate service anymore. Since last May the inner suburban services run no further north than Stevenage. There are still a handful of early morning and late night workings to/from Letchworth sidings, and a few which have been regularly stabling in Hitchin up yard vice elsewhere, however these all run ECS north of Stevenage.

To be honest terminating them at Stevenage is probably the one thing that GTR have got right as they already had 4 services a hour between Stevenage and Letchworth - Least when they as in Network Rail complete Platform 5 at Stevenage in Year Dot, they might look at running half hourly north of Hertford off peak.

 

[APUK002]

There's no such thing as a Letchworth-Moorgate service anymore. Since last May the inner suburban services run no further north than Stevenage. There are still a handful of early morning and late night workings to/from Letchworth sidings, and a few which have been regularly stabling in Hitchin up yard vice elsewhere, however these all run ECS north of Stevenage.

Oh didn’t knkw that

 

[Fred26]

To be honest terminating them at Stevenage is probably the one thing that GTR have got right as they already had 4 services a hour between Stevenage and Letchworth - Least when they as in Network Rail complete Platform 5 at Stevenage in Year Dot, they might look at running half hourly north of Hertford off peak.

Two tph off-peak is the plan.

 

[Aictos]

Two tph off-peak is the plan.

That's good as that's been a long time waiting,least it means a massive improvement in connectivity between Stevenage and Hertford Loop stations - that ought to be the absolute minimum service provided.

I've not seen comments but compared to the Class 313, what are their dwell times like ie braking for station stops to doors open/close and departing from stations?

 

[Fred26]

That's good as that's been a long time waiting,least it means a massive improvement in connectivity between Stevenage and Hertford Loop stations - that ought to be the absolute minimum service provided.

I've not seen comments but compared to the Class 313, what are their dwell times like ie braking for station stops to doors open/close and departing from stations?

Probably won't know until they're in service.

 

[387star]

The moorgate is crying out to be added to Overground

 

[jon0844]

The moorgate is crying out to be added to Overground

I think it will be for the next contract/franchise but TfL might be bankrupt by then!

 

[ijmad]

The moorgate is crying out to be added to Overground

I wonder what a 717 would look like in Orange, White and Black

 

[332 > 444]

The moorgate is crying out to be added to Overground

The people who can't get their 710s out on schedule??

Not all of Hornsey are trained on these yet, these will be a problem for me on the 10th........

 

[387star]

The people who can't get their 710s out on schedule??

Not all of Hornsey are trained on these yet, these will be a problem for me on the 10th........

OT but What's hitchin going to sign?a GN only depot?

Not many GN only trains will stop there?

 

[332 > 444]

OT but What's hitchin going to sign?a GN only depot?

Not many GN only trains will stop there?

According to documents I've seen, it will be 387 and 717 so there will be GN work for them and will sign routewise up to Biggleswade (why?) and Cambridge.
Also 365s stop at Hitchin that usually start at Royston/Baldock.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

Not all of Hornsey are trained on these yet, these will be a problem for me on the 10th........

At least the 313s are still around and capable, so if you get assigned to a nominally 717 diagram you'll just take out an old girl from the depot until you get your training? Not like Thameslink (hopefully) where it was 700 or bust, and was more often than not bust in the early days.

 

[Fred26]

At least the 313s are still around and capable, so if you get assigned to a nominally 717 diagram you'll just take out an old girl from the depot until you get your training? Not like Thameslink (hopefully) where it was 700 or bust, and was more often than not bust in the early days.

That's all well and good apart from two things -
1) If you're starting your job at, say, Finsbury Park, and you can only drive 313s but have been booked a 717 job the train will be terminated and that driver will be left without a job.
2) When the May timetable fiasco happened there were instances when drivers who couldn't sign 700s were starting but ended up sitting around all day because Control didn't want them to take out 365s, 387s. Basically, 'I can take the 365 I can see in the yard', 'No, 700 or nothing'. Loads of trains were cancelled because of the refusal of control to run a service even if it was only a bit part (Hitchin to Finsbury Park, for example). I hate to say it, but I can see that happening again.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

1) If you're starting your job at, say, Finsbury Park, and you can only drive 313s but have been booked a 717 job the train will be terminated and that driver will be left without a job.

True, I forgot about driver changes mid-diagram. Fingers crossed.

 

[clockend]

That looks like more than half the diagrams. Can’t see that being sensible even if all drivers trained. Surely one or two diagrams a week would be better.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure they won't all be 717s from day one, but with the 313s off lease from this week or last, there's definitely a need to switch ASAP. Especially now almost all the 717s have been delivered and need a place to stay...

 

[717001]

Have heard it’s likely to be one 717 working initially, then gradual adding of units through to around next May

 

[hooverboy]

That's good as that's been a long time waiting,least it means a massive improvement in connectivity between Stevenage and Hertford Loop stations - that ought to be the absolute minimum service provided.

I've not seen comments but compared to the Class 313, what are their dwell times like ie braking for station stops to doors open/close and departing from stations?

if they are like the 700's then:
1)braking- quite good until pulling into stations, then bloody slow
2)open doors takes quite a while
3)quick off the blocks when departing

 

[Class315]

I am sure they won't all be 717s from day one, but with the 313s off lease from this week or last, there's definitely a need to switch ASAP. Especially now almost all the 717s have been delivered and need a place to stay...

The 313's are due to be off lease from 31/12/18, that obviously won't happen although another date I heard was by 28/02/19. Which gives enough time for remaining drivers to have the initial 700 course plus the 2 day 717 conversion, As i've yet to hear or see any driver undergo the full 2 week 717 course, if it even exists at this moment in time.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

if they are like the 700's then:
1)braking- quite good until pulling into stations, then bloody slow
2)open doors takes quite a while
3)quick off the blocks when departing

At least once the doors are open, passenger boarding times should be much less as the door area will no longer be a huge bottleneck.

 

[Julia]

I am sure they won't all be 717s from day one, but with the 313s off lease from this week or last, there's definitely a need to switch ASAP. Especially now almost all the 717s have been delivered and need a place to stay...

It's not like there's anyone queueing up to take the 313s away - I'm sure the leaseco will be happy to squeeze a bit more revenue out of them before they head off for recycling. Storage space is the primary issue.

 

[jon0844]

It's not like there's anyone queueing up to take the 313s away - I'm sure the leaseco will be happy to squeeze a bit more revenue out of them before they head off for recycling. Storage space is the primary issue.

But I bet the ROSCO will be happy to charge a small fortune for every extra minute!

At least once the doors are open, passenger boarding times should be much less as the door area will no longer be a huge bottleneck.

There's certainly a lot more space by the doors, but more importantly, the wide aisles should encourage people to move down - helping even more. People have less need to feel worried that they may not be able to get off, thus standing by the door (such as those who are alighting before Finsbury Park in the morning).

Those with bags, buggies etc will hopefully find the open areas behind the cabs, as well as the proper disabled area that is a major step up from the almost invisible area on the 313s.

 

[Fred26]

The 313's are due to be off lease from 31/12/18, that obviously won't happen although another date I heard was by 28/02/19. Which gives enough time for remaining drivers to have the initial 700 course plus the 2 day 717 conversion, As i've yet to hear or see any driver undergo the full 2 week 717 course, if it even exists at this moment in time.

The two-week course hasn't started as far as I know. The priority is getting the 700 signed drivers through the short conversion course. Last I heard that was progressing well.

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

But I bet the ROSCO will be happy to charge a small fortune for every extra minute!

They'd be happy to, but too high a price and GTR would say 'no thanks' and they'd push the 717s into service as quickly as possible; maybe with short term pain to passengers but ultimately forgotten in the long run.

A short lease may well cost more per day than the long one that is about to run out, but the ROSCO will know they don't have too much leverage now the new trains are on the doorstep, so they can't be ridiculous. I expect a 'reasonable' price will be negotiated.

 

[bramling]

That's good as that's been a long time waiting,least it means a massive improvement in connectivity between Stevenage and Hertford Loop stations - that ought to be the absolute minimum service provided.

On balance it's a good thing, however I must admit I did occasionally like to use the Letchworth-Moorgate service in order to visit the garden centres at Crews Hill! Since May that journey is now enough of a pain that it's virtually unviable to do by train compared to car. Nonetheless I can't imagine many travel from Hitchin and Letchworth to the Hertford loop, so it's probably a justifiable decision. What is less forgivable is the bus substitution when it comes - there's absolutely no excuse for not getting the Stevenage fifth platform built in time for the Thameslink Programme.

I've not seen comments but compared to the Class 313, what are their dwell times like ie braking for station stops to doors open/close and departing from stations?

No doubt performance will be better, although I wouldn't expect it to be a game-changer. Those passengers who currently stand will doubtless like the extra space and air conditioning, those who board at some of the middle places won't appreciate the fact that they no longer get a seat, and those from the outer reaches will probably like them if hard seats are to their taste and dislike them if not. On balance I'd prefer a 313, but then I don't commute from somewhere like Winchmore Hill in the morning peak where I can well imagine the 313s are a grim experience!