Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[northernchris]

Tall order then but I suppose they could make 4 car units with non PRM and a PRM fitted 2 cars.
Incidentally I note from above the penultimate for refreshing and PRM rustbucket 155 343 has just headed for Kilmarnock (Brodies?). On past performance I can't see the 155 program being completed for the Dec12 end date. Lots of 158 to do too.
K

The 158s don't take too long though. There's currently 22 158s which need to be made PRM compliant so it should be achievable

 

[507021]

Not to cast aspersions on your contact, but a fleet of just two 3-car units would seem rather pointless. If there was a service which required 2 diagrams there'd be no spare (HUD-SHF is earmarked for 3-car 150s but requires 3 diagrams), and a service requiring only one diagram would mean the other as a spare, which would seem wasteful.

The two 150/0s are believed to be transferring to Northern as well.

 

[js1000]

Travelling into Piccadilly this morning made me realise how fragmented and piecemeal the Northern refurb programme. Looking out the window I could see:

- New white Northern livery (a 150)
- Old purple Northern livery (a 323)
- Govia Thameslink livery (the short term 319373 on lease)

Even then internally some of the refurbished units have old seating covers or dirty old panels which have not been replaced. A strange state of affairs.

 

[PHILIPE]

The two 150/0s are believed to be transferring to Northern as well.

I'm not sure if this is just a rumour within Northern land as there is no date yet so far as GWR are concerned. People at Northern are convinced it is true.

 

[Liverpool 507]

150120 is undergoing PRM mods at Doncaster Wabtec.

 

[WYSH]

Caught a re-furbished northern 170 from Leeds this evening. Can't believe how grubby the seats and carpets were looking already.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are not the 2 Hybrid toiletless units 57209 and 57212 currently running as 150209 going to be split to form 3 Car Sets

The two 150/0s are believed to be transferring to Northern as well.

I'm not sure if this is just a rumour within Northern land as there is no date yet so far as GWR are concerned. People at Northern are convinced it is true.

Clear as mud! The two orphaned cars would account for two, with the prototypes accounting for a further two if they are indeed Northern-bound. Unless there's been a rethink further 3-car sets were planned, which would have to be an even number of sets to avoid creating more orphans.

It'll all be revealed eventually!

 

[43096]

Not to cast aspersions on your contact, but a fleet of just two 3-car units would seem rather pointless. If there was a service which required 2 diagrams there'd be no spare (HUD-SHF is earmarked for 3-car 150s but requires 3 diagrams), and a service requiring only one diagram would mean the other as a spare, which would seem wasteful.

It depends if 150001/002 come north from GWR. Split 150209 into two 2-car sets and you then have 4 x 3-car. Three diagrammed and a spare.

 

[northwichcat]

@PHILIPE GWR were supposed to reform the mismatched 150/2 cars in to a hybrid set with a toilet. On the other hand Northern were supposed to create 16 x hybrid 150s so Angel Trains arranged for GWR to take one of the Northern 150/2s in exchange for the mismatched 150/2 set and that exchange has taken place. How and why GWR got a 150/2 with 3+2 Chapman seating is a mystery though.

GWR's lease for the 150s ends in April? 2019 and Arriva agreed with Angel for the 2 x 3 car 150/0s and 3 x 2 car 150/2s to transfer to Northern once the GWR lease expires. However, apparently there's a clause in the GWR agreement that if the franchise is extended that the lease dates will automatically be extended, which means there's now potentially 12 carriages which have been leased to two franchises simultaneously due to DfT awarding First Group a further extension! There's rumours Northern will get a further 3 x 769s in lieu of those 12 x 150 vehicles but informed sources confirm that Porterbrook have not been asked to create a further 3 x 769s for Northern.

 

[northwichcat]

Not to cast aspersions on your contact, but a fleet of just two 3-car units would seem rather pointless. If there was a service which required 2 diagrams there'd be no spare (HUD-SHF is earmarked for 3-car 150s but requires 3 diagrams), and a service requiring only one diagram would mean the other as a spare, which would seem wasteful.

If the plan to have 18 x 3 car 150s in total is not going ahead there's almost certainly going to be diagrams which get 2 carriages instead of 3, not just on the Penistone Line. We don't even know if the plan was for 3 cars on all Penistone Line services but we do know the longest formation on the Penistone Line was going to be a 3 car 150. Platform lengthening mentioned in the franchise agreement for the Buxton and Mid-Cheshire lines indicates 4 x 23m trains will be used but the likelihood of all services on both lines getting that length formation is very low.

 

[superkev]

I may be wrong but I get the impression that since the timetable fiasco and the ongoing strikes passenger numbers have slumped so perhaps there is no need for more ex GW or Scotrail units
Watching almost empty 4 cars pass through Sowerby bridge even at busy times is rather sad.
K

 

[deltic08]

I may be wrong but I get the impression that since the timetable fiasco and the ongoing strikes passenger numbers have slumped so perhaps there is no need for more ex GW or Scotrail units
Watching almost empty 4 cars pass through Sowerby bridge even at busy times is rather sad.
K

Maybe not at the moment but it will recover, it is the Autumn and don't forget Northern are losing 100 units that can't be converted for the disabled. We will need all the DMUs we can acquire.

 

[thealexweb]

Do we have any formal confirmation the Scotrail DMUs going off lease will definitely still leave for Northern in December?

 

[adrock1976]

A friend at Northern told me recently only two 150/9s are to be formed, with the other 150s staying as two car units.

Might there be a possibility of the 2 orphaned coaches (150209 and 212) being inserted into the centre of 2 150/1s, similar as how they were inserted into the centre of 150125 and 126?

 

[Mollman]

Do we have any formal confirmation the Scotrail DMUs going off lease will definitely still leave for Northern in December?

All the 'trade press' coverage of the Scottish electrification project makes it quite clear that the Stirling route needs to be ready for December to release DMUs to cover for those going to Northern - if the deadline is missed ScotRail will not be allowed to keep the units.

 

[1179_Clee2]

@PHILIPE GWR were supposed to reform the mismatched 150/2 cars in to a hybrid set with a toilet. On the other hand Northern were supposed to create 16 x hybrid 150s so Angel Trains arranged for GWR to take one of the Northern 150/2s in exchange for the mismatched 150/2 set and that exchange has taken place. How and why GWR got a 150/2 with 3+2 Chapman seating is a mystery though.

GWR's lease for the 150s ends in April? 2019 and Arriva agreed with Angel for the 2 x 3 car 150/0s and 3 x 2 car 150/2s to transfer to Northern once the GWR lease expires. However, apparently there's a clause in the GWR agreement that if the franchise is extended that the lease dates will automatically be extended, which means there's now potentially 12 carriages which have been leased to two franchises simultaneously due to DfT awarding First Group a further extension! There's rumours Northern will get a further 3 x 769s in lieu of those 12 x 150 vehicles but informed sources confirm that Porterbrook have not been asked to create a further 3 x 769s for Northern.

@jcollins You are forgetting the GOLDERN RULES of the current UK rail network.
RULE 1 London and the South East gets what it wants.
RULE 2 Any unreliable London tat withdrawn early needs to be repackaged as NEW!!! and then try and dump it on Northern England.
RULE 3 Spread a lot of rumours about what trains Northern could get but dont put any facts with it.

 

[507021]

Might there be a possibility of the 2 orphaned coaches (150209 and 212) being inserted into the centre of 2 150/1s, similar as how they were inserted into the centre of 150125 and 126?

That is the plan, yes.

 

[JModulo]

Passed one of the Scotrail 156s destined for Northern on my way to Glasgow this morning (156496) and it would appear to have all the Scotrail/Abellio branding removes from it suggesting transfer imminent?

 

[Liverpool 507]

170478 has now returned to Neville Hill today following refurbishment at Arriva TrainCare Crewe. No path has appeared on Realtime Trains at the moment for another 170 unit to go to Crewe for refurbishment.

 

[northernchris]

158784 has returned from receiving PRM mods.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Clear as mud! The two orphaned cars would account for two, with the prototypes accounting for a further two if they are indeed Northern-bound. Unless there's been a rethink further 3-car sets were planned, which would have to be an even number of sets to avoid creating more orphans.

It'll all be revealed eventually!

If that's the case, then 150125 & 209 and 150126 & 212 will be reformed into their previous form as 925 and 926. There's probably enough 150/2 coaches to reform the lot to three car sets.

 

[leo knight]

158849 is or were at Crewe being the 2nd refurbished 2 car 158 unit to digital standard according to RAIL magazine

 

[jonesy3001]

150143 is on it's way to crewe, are there any other units that are out and about getting PRM work and refurbishment?
The thread has recently gone quiet.

 

[AMD]

158849 is at Crewe, and is progressing well as all the wiring required, and the new seats, will be complete next week.

On the 3 car 150 front, there will be 3 car units in service later next year however what forms the third vehicle is still under discussion as it may not be a 150/2 car....................

 

[jonesy3001]

158849 is at Crewe, and is progressing well as all the wiring required, and the new seats, will be complete next week.

On the 3 car 150 front, there will be 3 car units in service later next year however what forms the third vehicle is still under discussion as it may not be a 150/2 car....................

could be a 153 in the middle as they have cabs at both ends in case something happens to the carriages either side, unless 150001 and 002 are transferring to northern.

 

[xotGD]

Any updates on 333001? Is it still tucked away at Holbeck?

I am looking forward to the new comfortable seating...

 

[AMD]

Any updates on 333001? Is it still tucked away at Holbeck?

Coming soon.... you might like the seat coverings

 

[158722]

150143 is on it's way to crewe, are there any other units that are out and about getting PRM work and refurbishment?
The thread has recently gone quiet.

The DMUs I have noted are as follows;
150120 Wabtec Doncaster
150143 LNWR Crewe
150271 Kilmarnock
155343 Kilmarnock
156427 Wolverton
158849 LNWR Crewe

 

[td97]

you might like the seat coverings

Have ARN paid for something more substantial than the cheap cloth on the 150/155/158/319 refurbs?

 

[AMD]

Have ARN paid for something more substantial than the cheap cloth on the 150/155/158/319 refurbs?

If I said that the flat cloth is the same price as other fabrics would you be surprised?