Passenger not allowed on station

[Wolfie]

Having watched the video his body language (smug arrogant complacence) says it all. If he did that to a guy he would end up hospitalised. I'm not saying that would be right but nor is his attitude.
I personally would call 999 and talk to the Met - l have limited confidence in the railway's tame plod in these cases.

Edited to add:
I can't help but notice that the staff member is Asian of a certain age and, from her Twitter name, the passenger also is Asian. I sort of wonder whether the cultural thing of males being superior and him resenting her challenging his word and him losing 'face' might be coming in.

 

[[.n]]

Whist the behaviour of the individual appears to be appalling, I do find calls for anyone to be sacked rather distasteful. By all means the individual needs to be put through whatever disciplinary process the company has in place, but if found guilty I'd rather the company decide the appropriate course of action to be taken rather than posters on an internet forum.

Some people would argue, that rather than being sacked, the individual concerned should be prosecuted and (potentially) jailed instead.

 

[Wolfie]

Some people would argue, that rather than being sacked, the individual concerned should be prosecuted and (potentially) jailed instead.

See my comment 2 above

 

[Mojo]

But it's okay for the Gateline staff to threaten to report the customer to their manager and get them the sack?

 

[Wolfie]

But it's okay for the Gateline staff to threaten to report the customer to their manager and get them the sack?

Unless he knows her how does he know where she works? If he gets that info through his job and uses it to pursue his pathetic vendetta that is an absolutely massive data protection fail which must constitute gross misconduct in its own right. The police (not BTP!) might well look at harassment charges too (possibly against GN too).

 

[Mojo]

Unless he knows her how does he know where she works? If he gets that info through his job and uses it to pursue his pathetic vendetta that is an absolutely massive data protection fail which must constitute gross misconduct in its own right. The police (not BTP!) might well look at harassment charges too (possibly against GN too).

He is stated in one of the videos as saying where she works. I'm not sure how he knows this; perhaps he saw a staff ID badge?

 

[Wolfie]

He is stated in one of the videos as saying where she works. I'm not sure how he knows this; perhaps he saw a staff ID badge?

It would still constitute harassment and get him rapid contact with the Met (or another territorial police force).
It certainly isn't part of his job and his employer could not conceivably support him.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

his employer could not conceivably support him.

His employer perhaps not, but the unions? If he's a union member, I'd have thought they would. Certainly certain parts of certain unions would!

 

[Wolfie]

His employer perhaps not, but the unions? If he's a union member, I'd have thought they would. Certainly certain parts of certain unions would!

I am far from anti-TU and am pretty sure that even the most 'dinosaur' wouldn't/couldn't support him harassing a woman at her workplace.

 

[Darandio]

I am far from anti-TU and am pretty sure that even the most 'dinosaur' wouldn't/couldn't support him harassing a woman at her workplace.

If it came down the the RMT, i'm not so sure.

 

[Wolfie]

If it came down the the RMT, i'm not so sure.

I hope that you are being unfair to RMT

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am far from anti-TU and am pretty sure that even the most 'dinosaur' wouldn't/couldn't support him harassing a woman at her workplace.

Quite. There is no justification whatsoever for a member of staff at any company to make contact with a customer outside of the provisions to do so within the company, nor to threaten to do so, regardless of what actions the passenger may or may not have taken themselves. There are procedures to deal with such things for a very good reason.

FWIW, I think the videos may well be adequate evidence of gross misconduct, personally.

If the gateline staff believes genuinely that she is wrong and wishes to take further action, either a PF or UFN (i.e. report to the prosecutions team) are the ways in which he can do this. They would of course both be cancelled on appeal.

 

[Nippy]

And also GN asking her to remove the video as well!

 

[Darandio]

And also GN asking her to remove the video as well!

Indeed, just saw that.

I hope that you are being unfair to RMT

It's the RMT, expect the unexpected.

 

[Wolfie]

And also GN asking her to remove the video as well!

They can ask her to, and l personally would comply with that request, but that doesn't make it go away. I am sure that GTR's lawyers are absolutely horrified by the contents which are nothing but bad news for the company.

 

[ComUtoR]

Is her ticket valid ? (irrespective of what is said int he video) would a London Terminal (via any permitted) to Oakham be valid at New Barnet ?

 

[ComUtoR]

Edited to add:
I can't help but notice that the staff member is Asian of a certain age and, from her Twitter name, the passenger also is Asian. I sort of wonder whether the cultural thing of males being superior and him resenting her challenging his word and him losing 'face' might be coming in.

Racial stereotyping much ?

 

[bnm]

Whist the behaviour of the individual appears to be appalling, I do find calls for anyone to be sacked rather distasteful. By all means the individual needs to be put through whatever disciplinary process the company has in place, but if found guilty I'd rather the company decide the appropriate course of action to be taken rather than posters on an internet forum.

I stand by my assertion that Manan should be sacked.

In light of further evidence he should be prosecuted too.

 

[A Challenge]

Is her ticket valid ? (irrespective of what is said int he video) would a London Terminal (via any permitted) to Oakham be valid at New Barnet ?

Yes, mapped on map KP.

 

[Wolfie]

Racial stereotyping much ?

I certainly didn't intend it to be but have actually come across it (and, as a line manager, had to deal with a very upset young Asian female).

 

[bnm]

Is her ticket valid ? (irrespective of what is said int he video) would a London Terminal (via any permitted) to Oakham be valid at New Barnet ?

That is largely irrelevant to the treatment the passenger has had at the hands of the petty, power tripping, poor excuse for a customer facing staff member, Manan.

Were the ticket not valid (as it happens it is) then the correct procedure is to issue a Penalty Fare or write up an MG11 for consideration for prosecution. Then let the passenger on their way.

What shouldn't be done is detain the passenger unlawfully after colleagues have said the ticket is valid, both two weeks ago and again last night. What shouldn't be done is threaten to report the passenger to their employer with accusations of fraud. What shouldn't be done is falsely accuse the passenger of abusive behaviour, reporting them to the police.

None of those actions are justifiable in these circumstances, valid ticket or not.

 

[ComUtoR]

I certainly didn't intend it to be but have actually come across it (and, as a line manager, had to deal with a very upset young Asian female).

It's based on a stereotype and is effectively racial profiling. What if he was African ? Jamaican ? If he was White, British would he have let her through the gate ?

 

[ComUtoR]

Yes, mapped on map KP.

Thanks

 

[Wolfie]

It's based on a stereotype and is effectively racial profiling. What if he was African ? Jamaican ? If he was White, British would he have let her through the gate ?

You may think that but my staff member was no stereotype and the male in question made it clear that his issue was with her gender and ethnicity.

 

[ComUtoR]

You may think that but my staff member was no stereotype and the male in question made it clear that his issue was with her gender and ethnicity.

I would accept that your specific incident may have been stereotypical but to state that the staff member in the video may have been acting in the same way is using said stereotype to profile that member of staff.

I have come across very racist "white people" but I would go so far to automatically suggest that a white person was acting in a racist way purely because I had experienced it in the past.

 

[Wolfie]

I would accept that your specific incident may have been stereotypical but to state that the staff member in the video may have been acting in the same way is using said stereotype to profile that member of staff.

I have come across very racist "white people" but I would go so far to automatically suggest that a white person was acting in a racist way purely because I had experienced it in the past.

I hear what you say and actually in many ways agree. I also suspect that you are missing a 'not' in your last sentence (for some reason l can't get the wink emoji to show)...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I certainly didn't intend it to be but have actually come across it (and, as a line manager, had to deal with a very upset young Asian female).

In a number of the Asian cultures "saving face" is vitally important - being aware of this is not being racist, it's more cultural awareness.

 

[bnm]

And it's not just Asian cultures. There are still far too many men out there, of all creeds, who feel, believe, and act as if they are superior to women. Any challenge to that mindset is met with behaviour such as Manan's.

 

[ComUtoR]

I also suspect that you are missing a 'not' in your last sentence (for some reason l can't get the wink emoji to show)...

Oops certainly missed that.

The problem is that if you take your suggestion and for that to form any part of the investigation then you would find yourself in very deep and very hot water. To suggest that he was acting in such a way because he was an Asian male and she was an Asian female is just wrong and frankly quite racist.

Was the ticket valid
Has the staff member been informed of this previously
Why didn't he follow correct procedure
Has he been trained correctly
Was the ticket accepted or rejected by the gate
Why did he make a false claim
Previous employee history
etc etc.

 

[Wolfie]

And it's not just Asian cultures. There are still far too many men out there, of all creeds, who feel, believe, and act as if they are superior to women. Any challenge to that mindset is met with behaviour such as Manan's.

Particularly if they are older too. My other half is African and respect for elders is deeply engrained. Conversely elders get very ratty if they feel that they are not being shown due deference.